There's absolutely nothing wrong with owning a `lifestyle product' as you've eloquently pointed out, as the convenience factor is beneficial and some manufacturers like Meridian can achieve great sound quality from single box solutions. I guess some of us audiophiles are just inherent tinkerers and like switching components in the belief (possibly outmoded) that ultimate fidelity can only be achieved by having a system made up of separate units. 
 
Judging by your 818 ownership I'd say that you're about the trendiest dude currently reading this thread David!  
 
Quote:

britneedadvice said:

  Hi Andy
 
"Lifestyle product" ??
Whatever !!
 
As we all would contest, the 'worth' of this product (or any product ) is in the SQ . Multi box systems were 'fashionable' at one time but many high-end Manufacturers  are now finding the 'one-box' approach has many benefits.
Clearly, the 818 is hardly 'desk-top' but a two box system, has clear advantages where space is at a premium. ( 818/Amp or as others have recently found - Source/DAC with Headphone out)
(forgetting Power Supply units/ Grounding units etc etc!!)
 
However, the main point of my post was simply to throw the Meridian 'into the mix'. Given that Meridian were the originators of many things Digital ... and... having recently introduced  'MQA' , a facility not yet available from any other Manufacturer, surely at least, it's got to be mentioned?? I'm told some Artistes on hearing their recordings played back through the Meridian MQA system have "Cried with joy" 
 
So, if this thread, originally started by Roy, is to be expanded to include other Streamers,then Meridian is surely worth consideration?
 
So, whilst sitting here at my Desk,having just listened to Radio 3, then a bit ripped CD(from a library of over 3000),then some streamed music , at the same time as programming my Wife's listening(on the Speaker system downstairs- although she could have done it herself on the ipad but like a lot of Women , can't be bothered) then if that's a "Lifestyle product" , then I hold my hand's up !! Bloody hell, does mean I'm not so much the Dinosaur?? Good God,I'll be going to Head-fi Meets next !!!!!

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Further to my post 240
 
Hi Roy
 
I hadn't read your post prior to answering Andy's
 
My question " no mention of the 818 " was not directed at you!
The endless pages of 'PMs' between us. mostly me asking , you replying, indicates I feel you to be a very worthwhile leader of many things Audio. You've personally mentioned before why
Meridian has not entered your 'space' !
 
I'll consider doing a 818v3 review in due course.As you are aware,I have an 818v2 in my speaker system(soon to be upgraded). I have also recently bought another 818v3 to replace my MS600
for my Headphone system. I have had several auditions of MQA ,but not with my 'system'. As most here would welcome a review of the Meridian 818 as Headphone  source , then I would not be in a position to provide such a review yet. As stated,I would not be able to offer any comparisons with other units.
 
However,as alluded to in my previous post, functionality second to none! As Andy stated " Lifestyle product" I even feel quite 'relevant' now !!
 
Sound Quality wise  ?????  Can of worms !!!! Previously,so many reviews from so many people stating what they think is best( not just Streaming), then MQA comes along and knocks it all into touch  !!!
....and yes, I think it's going to be that profound !!
 
So, writing a review ?? I may just leave that to those that can !! 

"trendiest dude"  !!! ???  now hang on Andy, this is getting a bit embarrassing !!!

David, notwithstanding your newfound status as this threads trendy dude, are you able to comment about how your 818 compares to a vinyl rig or indeed your own CD player before you transitioned to a Meridian 'lifestyle' solution?

britneedadvice said:

"trendiest dude"  !!! ???  now hang on Andy, this is getting a bit embarrassing !!!

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Server update from CES
 
Aurender - I had a nice chat with Harry Lee (President), Eric (head of software development) and Roy (head of hardware development) and so I'd like to think I got real info. Only one new model was released, the A10, which is basically their entry level N100 combined with a DAC, so an all-in-one.  Pricing has not been set but expected to be less than $5k and could be a very nice all-in-one streamer/DAC.  The significant thing about this unit is that it will be their only unit that will have MQA capability for the foreseeable future.  Eric told me that MQA done right requires optimization on both the server and DAC and so it was easy to do this with the A10.  With their other models (W20, N10, X100 and N100), MQA will be released only after they have optimized their configuration for a variety of key DACs (MSB and DCS for sure, other select brands to follow).  I could tell Eric was not keen to talk about Roon.  He said this was the most common question he was asked during all of CES.  He said that Aurender spent a lot of time and money developing their Conductor software which is very stable, full-featured and has excellent SQ.  During their testing of Roon, SQ took a hit and they are not keen to have their product not sound their best.  They will offer it at some point as an option because of demand but while the Aurender hardware is very capable of running standalone using RoonServer, they are expecting only to become a Roon Endpoint so that people can choose between Roon and Conductor at any time.  Bottom line, they love MQA but Roon, not so much.  Of interest, as I asked this question to Lumin and Auralic, while they also expect to offer Roon as an Endpoint, they also said they felt their respective software had better SQ than Roon.  Hopefully, Roon will up their game.
 

 
 
Lumin - I shared a bit about the Lumin U1 already in a previous post.  This is my first real experience with Lumin and I have to say this is an excellent sounding streamer.  Very rich tonal body, just like the Aurender, especially in the lower midrange and with excellent detail.  I have read the Lumins can sound a bit warm, I'm not sure I appreciated this.  Either way, a very musical presentation and I would have no problem owning a Lumin.  As for the "wife acceptance factor", Lumins have plenty.  Because the Lumin can connect to a USB hard drive, the Lumin people actually consider their products servers and not just streamers.  
 

 

 
Auralic - They were the only company I came across to announce both RoonReady and MQA status with their next firmware due out soon for the Aries and Aries Mini.  Unlike Aurender, the Aries will have MQA enabled without regard to the DAC connected to it.  In speaking with MQA, this is acceptable but not ideal and if you stream an MQA file that contains a recording originally recorded at 352 KHz oversampling (and apparently they do have such native recordings), for example, and your DAC is not capable of such a file, there could be problems with "lock ups" or issues with SQ.  In the Auralic room, they were running an Aries Mini streaming an MQA file to a pair of wireless speakers.  While it's nice to be able to show this convenience and capability, to my ears, the sound was very flat.  It didn't do them any favors.
 


 
It seems many companies were showcasing new servers or server prototypes at CES including Light Harmonic pictured in black below their new ViDac DAC.  This one has a giant touchscreen.  I was hoping Baetis would be there and they were not.  Neither was the newly announced Orpheus music server from Switzerland.
 

 
As for MQA, these banners were every where it seemed.  Given the opportunity to A/B an MQA-wrapped file with both the MQA decoder turned on and off on a Mytek Brooklyn DAC, you could hear the soundstage expand considerably with it on.  It didn't bring me to tears like some others but without question, "I want my MQA."
 


 
 
In case anyone's interested, I got to hear the new HiFiMan electrostatic headphone called the Shangri La paired with their new 300B electrostatic tube amp.  Pricing not yet set but expected to go for more than the HEK.  Very very transparent and with decent bass!  I couldn't put this one down.  Should compete well with the Stax but don't hold your breath for one, release is not imminent.
 

 

 

 
And of course, the mighty Orpheus II.  A lifestyle setup for the busy executive who has it all.  Regardless, this is a very sweet sounding headphone if you can excuse its $55,000 asking price.  
 

Hi Roy,
 
It would seem wise to hold off on any potential server purchase until the MQA situation washes through the server market, presumably within 6 months or so or did you get the feeling that say Aurender would be able to update their firmware to accomodate it, in any case surely an Aurender would just be the transport its the DAC that does the MQA decoding?
 
The Lumin looks interesting, there is something about putting noisy hard drives even SSD's in an enclosure away from the streamer however it has to affect latency which depending on the cache buffer size may or may not affect the SQ.
 
Good to see the manufacturers pushing the boundaries of headphone design still further. How was the build quality on the Shangdi La's compared to the HEK"s?

isquirrel said:

  Hi Roy,
 
It would seem wise to hold off on any potential server purchase until the MQA situation washes through the server market, presumably within 6 months or so or did you get the feeling that say Aurender would be able to update their firmware to accomodate it, in any case surely an Aurender would just be the transport its the DAC that does the MQA decoding?
 
The Lumin looks interesting, there is something about putting noisy hard drives even SSD's in an enclosure away from the streamer however it has to affect latency which depending on the cache buffer size may or may not affect the SQ.
 
Good to see the manufacturers pushing the boundaries of headphone design still further. How was the build quality on the Shangdi La's compared to the HEK"s?

Click to expand...

Simon, MQA on all the Aurenders is imminent but the roll out will take time (months) because Aurender is committed to making sure they have certified certain DACs for optimum compatibility.  All current and future Aurenders will be capable of implementing MQA through a firmware upgrade so that wouldn't be a reason to delay purchase.  
 
In speaking with MQA, decoding can take place in the server or in the DAC, no advantage to having both but it won't hurt either.  The benefit of having it in the DAC, such as the Mytek Brooklyn that I looked at is that the quality of the source device no longer matters (this is according to MQA) meaning you could use a cheap laptop as your server and as long as you were playing an MQA file, the SQ would not be impacted since the decoding takes place within the DAC.  This could have implications for those looking for a portable setup because you could potentially carry around a tiny Chord Mojo with an MQA decoder built in and slip in an SD card filled with MQA files and in a single tiny box, you've got a setup that potentially beats the setups that many of us own today! The implications of this are huge.
 
The Lumins were impressive both on paper and how they sounded, especially the S1 that was playing and the U1 should sound identical.  There is a debate by many regarding what sounds best, internal storage vs external USB HD vs streaming from a NAS.  With Auralic, streaming from a NAS was superior to external USB HD by a wide margin.  With Aurender, they will tell you there is no difference as everything gets cached through their internal SSD.  During my conversations with Paul Pang who designs and manufactures audiophile level SSDs, SATA cables, ethernet cards, switches and ethernet cables, he strongly believes internal storage is superior.  Scott Berry of CAD, as you know, feels the same way as does Mark Jenkins of Antipodes.  John Mingo of Baetis believes the opposite, that internal storage is noisy and so his systems come with external USB hard drives.  To my ears, with the CAT, the difference isn't large but music from the internal SSD sounded a little better and I also find it convenient to have my music collection stored in my server even though I own a good NAS setup.
 
Eric, head of software development at Aurender, provided me some interesting insight regarding the future of digital files from his viewpoint.  He believes the future belongs to streaming and not to local storage.  Similar to claims made by @Vert, he has trouble with his CD rips sounding good and he finds the music he streams from Tidal to sound better, even better than CD playback.  He said Tidal sources their streams directly from the manufacturer who often provides source material that is of higher quality than the physical CDs that you can buy.  He says this will only improve with time and with CD sales on a downward spiral, it's his forgone conclusion that the CD is all but dead.  This possibly suggests what future Aurender products will be like -- a streamer.  With MQA, which is ultimately a streaming format, I can see how this statement could be true.
 
Regarding the HiFiMan Shangri La, Dr. Bian Fang told me this is a difficult and expensive headphone to make and quality control will be an issue because of the manufacturing process involved.  He is hopeful but not sure he can bring it to market.  With the unit I got to hear, build quality seemed about the same as the HEK.  

Roy,
This is a VERY interesting report.

Isquirrel may be right when he says: "It would seem wise to hold off on any potential server purchase until the MQA situation washes through the server market,"

-> Do you believe it may be the Same for DAC and that we should wait to see which DAC support MQA and if MQA becomes real on the market ?

Should't we wait to have an official position from CHORD about futur MQA support before buying a DAVE ? from your conversations with Rob, are there any plan to have DAVE supporting MQA ? What Rob think about MQA ?

Same question for the NAGRA HD DAC and MQA ...

Thanks again for those very valuable CES infos and reports.

bmichels said:

Roy,
This is a VERY interesting report.

Isquirrel may be right when he says: "It would seem wise to hold off on any potential server purchase until the MQA situation washes through the server market,"

-> Do you believe it may be the Same for DAC and that we should wait to see which DAC support MQA and if MQA becomes real on the market ?

Should't we wait to have an official position from CHORD about futur MQA support before buying a DAVE ? from your conversations with Rob, are there any plan to have DAVE supporting MQA ? What Rob think about MQA ?

Same question for the NAGRA HD DAC and MQA ...

Thanks again for those very valuable CES infos and reports.

Click to expand...

Bertrand, it depends on whether you have a system now that you can be happy with for at least another year.  If you are starting from nothing, I could think of a DAC and server I would buy today that I could be happy with for a very long time.  
 
Based on what I saw at CES, I think MQA will catch on.  The success of this hinges on streaming companies like Tidal supporting it because while you can buy and download MQA files to store on your server, most people will not want to buy MQA files to replace the thousands of files they already own and so they will probably just stream, especially if there is no downside to streaming.
 
To add an MQA decoder to a DAC I am told is not an easy matter.  You will probably have to buy a new DAC, I'm not sure, and so most DAC manufacturers are probably relying on the server manufacturer to take care of this.  At the same time and maybe more importantly, you will want to make sure your DAC is capable of all resolutions if possible, especially DXD.  The future of DSD remains in question, the future of PCM does not.  Make sure your DAC can decode DXD which is 24/352 PCM because apparently, there is music being recorded in this format today that are being made into MQA files.  I listened to such a file and I have to say it sounded very good.  
 
Regarding Rob and MQA, he gave me his opinion and asked me to keep it confidential and so I will leave it to you to interpret what that could mean.  As I A/B'd an MQA file, the music gained more depth and air around the notes with MQA turned on.  To a much greater extent, this is what the Chord DAVE accomplishes.  It is unclear to me if MQA would be necessary with the DAVE or if MQA would further enhance the DAVE.
 
With the Nagra, they were not displaying the MQA banner but that doesn't mean they won't support it eventually.  I believe MQA will be more readily implemented by server companies for the reasons I mentioned above.

romaz said:

  Regarding Rob and MQA, he gave me his opinion and asked me to keep it confidential and so I will leave it to you to interpret what that could mean.  
... To a much greater extent, this is what the Chord DAVE accomplishes.  It is unclear to me if MQA would be necessary with the DAVE or if MQA would further enhance the DAVE....

Click to expand...

 
Given Chord's very vocal opinions about how their DAC technology demolishes everything out there, I can imagine they don't really welcome this MQA marketing with open arms .
 
Curious to read what makes this MQA encapsulation do such magic. Meridian certainly have the brains to develop smart algorithms thing but after SACD, DVD-A, DSD, I am so not expecting much with new formats.
 
cheers,
arnaud

arnaud said:

   
Given Chord's very vocal opinions about how their DAC technology demolishes everything out there, I can imagine they don't really welcome this MQA marketing with open arms .
 
Curious to read what makes this MQA encapsulation do such magic. Meridian certainly have the brains to develop smart algorithms thing but after SACD, DVD-A, DSD, I am so not expecting much with new formats.
 
cheers,
arnaud

Click to expand...

I would agree.  MQA will probably have a greater impact on lesser equipment although I can't see why all equipment can't benefit.  An interesting finding, I asked MQA if I played a non-MQA 24/192 version of a track that was stored locally on my server and compared it against a 24/192 MQA file that I streamed off of Tidal, would they sound identical?  They said the MQA track would potentially sound better because with newer recordings and certain remasters, the MQA file would have tapped into other properties of the recording that will enhance SQ that would not have been possible with non-MQA files.  
 
Without violating Rob's confidence (and this is my analogy and not his), if you can jump 5 feet high and someone comes along and they start boasting to the world that they can jump 2 feet high, you probably wouldn't feel threatened at all but would you be impressed?  I will say that Rob said the DAVE will be MQA capable via the music server and not via his DAC.  Vincent Brient told me the same thing about his TotalDac.

 
Eric, head of software development at Aurender, provided me some interesting insight regarding the future of digital files from his viewpoint.  He believes the future belongs to streaming and not to local storage.  Similar to claims made by @Vert, he has trouble with his CD rips sounding good and he finds the music he streams from Tidal to sound better, even better than CD playback.  He said Tidal sources their streams directly from the manufacturer who often provides source material that is of higher quality than the physical CDs that you can buy.  He says this will only improve with time and with CD sales on a downward spiral, it's his forgone conclusion that the CD is all but dead.  This possibly suggests what future Aurender products will be like -- a streamer.  With MQA, which is ultimately a streaming format, I can see how this statement could be true.
 

Click to expand...

Finally someone from the industry comes out and says this! For me TIDAL is a game changer because they supply better file quality. Of course you need decent hardware and software to reveal this but don't need to spend fortunes for example a decent Android device with UAPP player app will do just fine. 

romaz said:

  I would agree.  MQA will probably have a greater impact on lesser equipment although I can't see why all equipment can't benefit.  An interesting finding, I asked MQA if I played a non-MQA 24/192 version of a track that was stored locally on my server and compared it against a 24/192 MQA file that I streamed off of Tidal, would they sound identical?  They said the MQA track would potentially sound better because with newer recordings and certain remasters, the MQA file would have tapped into other properties of the recording that will enhance SQ that would not have been possible with non-MQA files.  

Click to expand...

I auditioned MQA at Meridian in NYC in March 2015. One of their demo files was a 24/192 file followed by an MQA version of the same file. The MQA version was markedly better. This indicates to me that the "beautification" filters applied to the original stream - which according to MQA compensate for shortcomings in the recording/ADC chain - have a considerable impact on sound quality. In this case it was obviously for the better, not sure about the general case.

Finally bought Melco N1A and sound quality via Chord Hugo is awesome. 

miguelito said:

  I auditioned MQA at Meridian in NYC in March 2015. One of their demo files was a 24/192 file followed by an MQA version of the same file. The MQA version was markedly better. This indicates to me that the "beautification" filters applied to the original stream - which according to MQA compensate for shortcomings in the recording/ADC chain - have a considerable impact on sound quality. In this case it was obviously for the better, not sure about the general case.

Click to expand...

So many questions with MQA.  With Auralic unexpectedly removing MQA-decoding at the last minute from its most recent release of Lightning after advertising MQA so staunchly, even more questions are raised.  The biggest question with MQA now seems to be whether MQA will require an MQA-enabled DAC to sound its very best.  This seems to be what some from within MQA are implying.  If this is the case, MQA may have a hard time succeeding as many of us who are very satisfied with our DAC or have invested large sums in our DAC would probably be very hesitant to have to buy a new DAC.