What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)
Feb 21, 2017 at 4:04 PM Post #2,011 of 14,566
  Does the galvanic isolation from ethernet offer any benefits in this scenario?

 
Galvanic is an adjectivoid (Something which resembles an adjective but really deescribes nothing) in any use other than describing the use of zinc plating of steel trash cans or rain gutters.  An empty suit descriptor which has morphed into a buzzword/bulletpoint with neither buzz nor meaning.

 
I stand amazed at the frequency of its use. 
 
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Feb 21, 2017 at 4:17 PM Post #2,013 of 14,566
   
Galvanic is an adjectivoid (Something which resembles an adjective but really deescribes nothing) in any use other than describing the use of zinc plating of steel trash cans or rain gutters.  An empty suit descriptor which has morphed into a buzzword/bulletpoint with neither buzz nor meaning.

 
I stand amazed at the frequency of its use. 


​The term "galvanic" should always invoke the need for "sacrificial anodes," not something I wish to design into my circuitry.
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 4:48 PM Post #2,014 of 14,566
 
  Does the galvanic isolation from ethernet offer any benefits in this scenario?

 
Galvanic is an adjectivoid (Something which resembles an adjective but really deescribes nothing) in any use other than describing the use of zinc plating of steel trash cans or rain gutters.  An empty suit descriptor which has morphed into a buzzword/bulletpoint with neither buzz nor meaning.

 
I stand amazed at the frequency of its use. 


lol....  Great explanation.
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 5:07 PM Post #2,015 of 14,566
 
​The term "galvanic" should always invoke the need for "sacrificial anodes," not something I wish to design into my circuitry.


If you use your dac underwater, you'll wish it had sacrificial anodes. 
rolleyes.gif
 
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 8:27 PM Post #2,017 of 14,566
 
​The term "galvanic" should always invoke the need for "sacrificial anodes," not something I wish to design into my circuitry.

 
Now you've done it... any moment now someone will be offering for sale sacrifical anodes to attach to various parts of your audio equipment. If you think no-one will be stupid enough to buy them, all I can say is "Entreq Tellus".
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 9:31 PM Post #2,019 of 14,566
   
 
I suppose what MQA and anyone in the music biz who wants to use them intend isn't as important as what they can do, and while it's still early days it sure would suck if the biz managed to leverage this into some sort of real monopoly.
 
But for whatever it's worth, I do actually wonder whether monopoly was on the minds of the MQA folks. 
 
If I were an intellectual property attorney (I am the latter, but not in the former field) with the MQA boys in front of me, I might say something like the following:
 
"OK, you're telling me you want to protect your special sauce [MQA is essentially a certain configuration or type of configuration of the interpolation filters for digital audio, that you could loosely view, conceptually speaking, as one type of alternative to the megacomboburrito filter], but you're saying it will take about a New York minute for everyone to figure out your filters down to the coefficients as soon as you release this.  Therefore, what I'd advise in order to get the max legal protection for your baby is to (1) attach these filters to a piece of hardware and get a patent; and (2) throw in a little cryptography somewhere - compression/decompression stages are traditional places."  Bada-boom....
 
So this easily could be the result of legal advice in response to the question, "How can we make some money from this without everyone and his brother immediately copying it?"  Again, not that this makes a huge difference if the result is an actual monopoly, but it is a possible alternative to the pure Dr. Evil interpretation of the MQA folks' motivation.  (I know, what fun is that?)

 
The Lawyer concept sounds plausible until you get to the point of any other vendor who decides to hop on this train which may be heading for a cliff, has to submit their DAC for Meridian to give it the Seal of approval.That seams to be beyond a lawyers concern as they are no longer protecting meridians intellectual property but now demanding competitors provide their intellectual property to Meridian /MQA. All of this Gyration to output a PCM signal to the Same DAC chips  that these companies were using before. This is what I am assuming is concerning and a Little Dr. Evil.
The Slight of Hand is also concerning. None of those Graphs they Show have any actual data. All "Notional" or inferred.
 
" Mr. Maddoff here is my DOB, Mother's Maiden Name and SSN, This will let you access my accounts so you can tell me if I have my financial affairs in order"  
 
 
 

 
Feb 21, 2017 at 10:02 PM Post #2,020 of 14,566
   
Well then, blatant power grab with a Dolby analogy; encode the music with lossy MQA pixie dust; collect $$ from content providers, require their licensed manufacturers to submit to MQA's design prostate exam including complete design disclosure, their testing and approval in their time and on their terms.  If they have such confidence in their process, let them compete in a fair and free market.  That is what the rest of us do.  Phuc them and theirs.  May they assume the dying cockroach position lossy formats deserve in a high quality audio market.

Baldr, I would appreciate it if you'd just tell us how you feel about it! I'm having a hard time reading between the lines!
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 1:28 AM Post #2,021 of 14,566
  what I'd advise in order to get the max legal protection for your baby is to (1) attach these filters to a piece of hardware and get a patent; and (2) throw in a little cryptography somewhere - compression/decompression stages are traditional places."  Bada-boom....
 
So this easily could be the result of legal advice in response to the question, "How can we make some money from this without everyone and his brother immediately copying it?"  Again, not that this makes a huge difference if the result is an actual monopoly, but it is a possible alternative to the pure Dr. Evil interpretation of the MQA folks' motivation.  (I know, what fun is that?)

IANAL, but I have worked with quite a few patent attorneys on inventions I contributed to, and I'm somewhat familiar with patent licensing for codecs and the like from when I worked for AT&T. It's possible to patent a coding-decoding system, push it through a standards process, and then receive royalties through FRAND (fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory) licensing of the patents used in the standard. We all pay those indirectly for the many patents embodied in the components in our mobile phones, DACs, etc. If MQA are so confident of the superiority and patentability of their scheme, why not put it through the same process that led to previous lossy audio standards including MP3 and AAC? The holders of the patents embodied in those standards did not exactly starve on their FRAND royalties...
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 3:46 PM Post #2,022 of 14,566

I am a relative newcomer (with no real technical expertise) to this forum and have been reading the posts on this thread. It's been very informative and one regular topic particularly caught my eye... USB vs SPDIF. Apologies if this has already been flogged to death.
 
I have up till now been using USB in this setup: NAS>Router>microRendu>DAC>LYR2>HD650 using Logitech Media Server as the controller. 
 
I want to substitute USB for SPDIF in this setup to hear the comparison for myself, using the music on my NAS (mostly 16/44.1 FLAC) & TIDAL HiFi (same quality)
 
I do still have an old Squeezebox Classic 3 with a Coax SPDIF output that would slot in with the same functionality and give me this...
 
My question is whether the quality of the SqueezeBox Coax output would be fair and good enough for this comparison ?...or is there an alternative that would achieve the same result with better quality ?
 
Any pointers would be appreciated.
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 10:10 PM Post #2,023 of 14,566
  I have up till now been using USB in this setup: NAS>Router>microRendu>DAC>LYR2>HD650 using Logitech Media Server as the controller. 
 
My question is whether the quality of the SqueezeBox Coax output would be fair and good enough for this comparison ?...or is there an alternative that would achieve the same result with better quality ?

It depends on the purpose of the comparison. If it's to find out what sounds better to you, sure. But it will not compare USB and S/PDIF coax per se, because the microRendu and the SqueezeBox are pretty different devices in hardware and software, any conclusions you make won't generalize to other source and connection combinations.
 
Feb 23, 2017 at 1:28 AM Post #2,024 of 14,566
Two tired topics for my last comment: (well, at least for the first item)
 
The first, MQA. I figured out why I am so frustrated with it! It has been heralded as the next breakthrough in high quality audio technology. As a justification of this wonderfulness, it requires a Dolby model encode/decode with attendant royalties making it pricey. Further, to implement this technology, every other DAC manufacturer will have to disclose their design to MQA and await their approval to sell our products. The high end audio press has rolled over and wet themselves at the higher quality audio which they have have aurally "glimpsed" in controlled MQA demos.
 
The reality is that MQA is lossy and is being marketed as an audio quality improvement in tightly controlled demos. It is, at best, an apparent improvement over MP3. BFD. Takes more than that to float my boat. What a con, until they admit that MQA is indeed, lossy.
 
Galvanic isolation as an adjectivoid. That is, it sound like it describes something; it describes nothing. It does not specify if it is isolated at DC, AC, what frequencies, etc. etc. A waste of written/spoken space. Kinda like marketing an antivenin without any spec on which snake, scorpion, or spider for which it is effective.
 
Further, even if it is isolated at DC and all AC frequencies, it is useless as a model to predict interference in USB inputs. There are also electrostatic and electromagnetic modes of isolation, which no one ever specifies. Our lab performance has the former in greater than one kilovolt and the latter in the high nanoamp region.
 
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Feb 23, 2017 at 4:04 AM Post #2,025 of 14,566
  It depends on the purpose of the comparison. If it's to find out what sounds better to you, sure. But it will not compare USB and S/PDIF coax per se, because the microRendu and the SqueezeBox are pretty different devices in hardware and software, any conclusions you make won't generalize to other source and connection combinations.

Yes, it is for sound quality comparison purposes...I'm not qualified to do anything else. The reason for my question is that I realise the SB3 is rather old technology and was a consumer-grade product...which led me to think that perhaps it's SPDIF Coax output was not good enough quality to make a fair sound quality comparison to the USB set-up I have with the microRendu. But your answer suggests it is fine for that purpose. Thank-you. 
 

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