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Audeze LCD-4 - Page 59

post #871 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exidrion View Post

Yes, thank you. However does it really need to be $150? I've already spent 2000 on your overpriced headphones and now in order for them to be more comfortable you want another $150 for a headband?

Does Audeze make anything that isn't overpriced?

They're selling the headband for $150? Ridiculous.
post #872 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exidrion View Post

Yes, thank you. However does it really need to be $150? I've already spent 2000 on your overpriced headphones and now in order for them to be more comfortable you want another $150 for a headband?

Does Audeze make anything that isn't overpriced?

I have to say, while Audeze does a lot of things wrong, this particular ones I have to give to them.

Custom carbon fibre pieces are not cheap and especially so at the size and volume of production (read: small and few) that Audeze is making these, so the cost is understandable. I'm sure within a couple of months, all new revisions of the old headphones will shop with the new headband, but all will receive a price bump.

However, despite the justified cost of the new headband, it does make one wonder what exactly is costing so much in the LCD4. All the cups and grills and pads and gimbals are from the older headphones, using the same production files and plans. The headbands were new, but those are only $150. So what makes them expensive?
post #873 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapanak View Post




I have to say, while Audeze does a lot of things wrong, this particular ones I have to give to them.

Custom carbon fibre pieces are not cheap and especially so at the size and volume of production (read: small and few) that Audeze is making these, so the cost is understandable. I'm sure within a couple of months, all new revisions of the old headphones will shop with the new headband, but all will receive a price bump.

However, despite the justified cost of the new headband, it does make one wonder what exactly is costing so much in the LCD4. All the cups and grills and pads and gimbals are from the older headphones, using the same production files and plans. The headbands were new, but those are only $150. So what makes them expensive?

 

It seems like the only think left to drive up the price is R&D and/or the cost to produce nano-thickness drivers.  I don't have a clue what drive those cost up so much over the LCD3 but maybe there is a higher rejection rate when getting the film so thin or maybe they are harder to match.  If it sounds twice as good as the LCD3 and I can afford it then I will have to get it.  I can honestly say when I moved from the LCD2 up to the LCD3 I did it without trying it out first.  The LCD3 (to me) is worth twice what the LCD2 costs.  Maybe the 4 ups the ante that much. 

post #874 of 5048

One of the things I really don't understand about the head-fi community (vs the communities geared more toward home theater and speakers) is why so few actually take a minute to contact an official source when there are questions about a product. It really is pretty simple to do, and it beats mucking up the thread with all sorts of baseless assumptions, speculation, and accusations. 

 

*end rant*

 

Here are some of the reasons why the LCD4 is at the $4k price point...directly from Audeze. 

 

1) This item cannot be produced at the same rate as their other headphones. They are limited as to how many they can produce per month. The drivers take 4-5 days just to build due to the stretching and settling of the very thin film that they use. 

 

2) The cable is not the same one that has been used on other models. It's a premium quality cable. 

 

3) They are using a premium and rare wood - Cocobolo. This is limited stock in large part because it recently went on the endangered watch list. They are also using aged Macassar Ebony, which is also limited. 

*As a side note, my go-to guy for headphone stands is Larry Dale of headphile.com, and I know that he offers similar woods as premium options and they are NOT cheap. 

 

4) As others have pointed out ad nauseum - but something few seem to appreciate - Audeze is a small company. They do not have the resources and facilities of a mass market manufacturer. In addition to their R&D, they have to keep up with their other product offerings in addition to rolling out a new flagship such as the LCD4.

 

I do not personally own, nor have I ever owned, my own business..but given what I have learned about Audeze as a company over the last several years, I think what they accomplish is pretty remarkable. While I respect companies like Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, and others, there is still nothing I've heard on this side of the audio hobby that gives me the enjoyment of my LCD-Xs. Not to say I don't enjoy my other headphones, because I absolutely do. I enjoy maintaining a rotation, and I'm sure I'll continue to purchase from these and other companies going forward. But especially as a lover of planar technology (particularly Magnepan speakers!), Audeze gives me a level of reproduction that I never thought I would experience in a headphone. On top of that, every situation I know of where a customer has had an issue, they have gone out of their way to make it right. 

 

Now all of this may not be sufficient reason for YOU to spend your hard-earned money on an Audeze headphone, and that's perfectly fine. As we all know, there are many excellent options to choose from in this amazing hobby. But for the rest of us who love what they bring to the table, I think we can have a pretty high level of confidence that Audeze will have our back to the best of their ability should something go awry. 


Edited by Focker - 10/15/15 at 3:05am
post #875 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post
 

One of the things I really don't understand about the head-fi community (vs the communities geared more toward home theater and speakers) is why so few actually take a minute to contact an official source when there are questions about a product. It really is pretty simple to do, and it beats mucking up the thread with all sorts of baseless assumptions, speculation, and accusations. 

 

*end rant*

 

Here are some of the reasons why the LCD4 is at the $4k price point...directly from Audeze. 

 

1) This item cannot be produced at the same rate as their other headphones. They are limited as to how many they can produce per month. The drivers take 4-5 days just to build due to the stretching and settling of the very thin film that they use. 

 

2) The cable is not the same one that has been used on other models. It's a premium quality cable. 

 

3) They are using a premium and rare wood - Cocobolo. This is limited stock in large part because it recently went on the endangered watch list. They are also using aged Macassar Ebony, which is also limited. 

*As a side note, my go-to guy for headphone stands is Larry Dale of headphile.com, and I know that he offers similar woods as premium options and they are NOT cheap. 

 

4) As others have pointed out ad nauseum - but something few seem to appreciate - Audeze is a small company. They do not have the resources and facilities of a mass market manufacturer. In addition to their R&D, they have to keep up with their other product offerings in addition to rolling out a new flagship such as the LCD4.

 

I do not personally own, nor have I ever owned, my own business..but given what I have learned about Audeze as a company over the last several years, I think what they accomplish is pretty remarkable. While I respect companies like Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, and others, there is still nothing I've heard on this side of the audio hobby that gives me the enjoyment of my LCD-Xs. Not to say I don't enjoy my other headphones, because I absolutely do. I enjoy maintaining a rotation, and I'm sure I'll continue to purchase from these and other companies going forward. But especially as a lover of planar technology (particularly Magnepan speakers!), Audeze gives me a level of reproduction that I never thought I would experience in a headphone. On top of that, every situation I know of where a customer has had an issue, they have gone out of their way to make it right. 

 

Now all of this may not be sufficient reason for YOU to spend your hard-earned money on an Audeze headphone, and that's perfectly fine. As we all know, there are many excellent options to choose from in this amazing hobby. But for the rest of us who love what they bring to the table, I think we can have a pretty high level of confidence that Audeze will have our back to the best of their ability should something go awry. 


Nice post !

 :beerchug:

post #876 of 5048
About the price... Rico's point does hold merit for straight from the horses mouth approach. I'd like Mr Audeze insider saying hi more and apart from meaningless rants want to hear more from the manufacturer's side. The CHORD MOJO just came out and has the FAQ on the site as most do. A product specific thread, we should be generating genuine questions that guide us and improve the product, in this case Audeze customer understanding and concerns. All eventualities and trade secrets can't be addressed but it's a win win that this community can engage with the manufacturer. We knock up a list and the nice thread administration acts as our representative. As a manufacturer your customer base is paramount, thought provoking questions / suggestions lead to the new headbands.. while keeping the in house aesthetics.

We can still moan to a degree. But a question gets answers... generally.
Just a thought as always.
Keep smiling.
post #877 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

 

 

If their name was Hifiman, they might have actually done that eventually.

 

When has Hifiman officially reduced prices on their headphones?

post #878 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozurr View Post

When has Hifiman officially reduced prices on their headphones?

Some of the older Hifiman series got cheaper before being discontinued. Anywhere from 50$ to 200$ I believe. The HE6 got more expensive though, I think.
But they did lower the prices on HE500, 400, RE600 and 400 and possible others like HE4 and 5LE.
Edited by conquerator2 - 10/15/15 at 7:04am
post #879 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post


Some of the older Hifiman series got cheaper before being discontinued. Anywhere from 50$ to 200$ I believe. The HE6 got more expensive though, I think.
But they did lower the prices on HE500, 400, RE600 and 400 and possible others like HE4 and 5LE.

 

I'm not sure reducing price on discontinued or soon to be discontinued models is really what was being questioned.

post #880 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

I'm not sure reducing price on discontinued or soon to be discontinued models is really what was being questioned.

Not all RE400 and 600 are still in production and got discounted quite soon after release.
Others were discounted later and some shortly before being discontinued.
Just answering the question smily_headphones1.gif
But yeah, I don't see many expensive headphones being discounted (street price of some like the T1 is quite less though) smily_headphones1.gif
post #881 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post


Not all RE400 and 600 are still in production and got discounted quite soon after release.
Others were discounted later and some shortly before being discontinued.
Just answering the question smily_headphones1.gif
But yeah, I don't see many expensive headphones being discounted (street price of some like the T1 is quite less though) smily_headphones1.gif

 

Thanks for the update on the RE400 and 600.

post #882 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exidrion View Post

Yes, thank you. However does it really need to be $150? I've already spent 2000 on your overpriced headphones and now in order for them to be more comfortable you want another $150 for a headband?

Does Audeze make anything that isn't overpriced?

Exidrion, As another poster pointed out, the carbon fiber headband is made in small batches and is quite expensive to make, since we use it not just as a decorative element, but structurally as a spring. If people like them, there is demand and we can make more, then the price will come down.

 

>>Does Audeze make anything that isn't overpriced?

We just introduced a DAC/AMP/DSP and an ADC with a lightning connector for around $100 at RMAF. It even comes with an app to control EQ. This particular product is quite a feat of engineering and we expect a much wider market, so it is priced significantly lower.  If you see, there are almost no products in the market that offer the functionality at even 2X or 3X the price. 

 

We go to great lengths to make some of our products. Almost no other company does some of the things we do. The magnets we use are all custom made and we had to figure out how to make these magnets all the way from slurry. We cast our own film and make them here in the US. We had to figure out a new way to measure thickness of them film during manufacturing, since there are no easy ways to do this. The number of tools we had to make to just handle these films are quite a bit.

 

The innovations we do in the high end trickle down quite quickly to our other headphones. When we introduced the LCD1 the film thickness we used was about 8X what we use in the cheapest model (El8) we make. The EL8 film is thinner than even the newly announced/shown electrostatic headphone. The LCD4 film is much thinner than that. 

 

The prices are determined by volume,  dealer  and distributor margin, R&D cost, market size etc. Also many of our products are made in the US, with significantly higher manufacturing / labor costs. Also big companies can distribute the cost over a wider product range. As a small company this is still a significant challenge for us. 

Audeze LLC is a U.S. manufacturer of headphones that redefine the world of high-end audio using a unique combination of proprietary planar magnetic...
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post #883 of 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapanak View Post

I have to say, while Audeze does a lot of things wrong, this particular ones I have to give to them.
 

We sure make mistakes. We try to correct them and sometimes over-correct as well.  If we are a bit more transparent and hopefully post more on headfi, we can clear some of the misconceptions. 

Audeze LLC is a U.S. manufacturer of headphones that redefine the world of high-end audio using a unique combination of proprietary planar magnetic...
Reply
post #884 of 5048
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions very kind of you.

For the film manufacturing have you tryed using dual lasers for measuring thickness? Taking into account ambient temp and pre stretched thickness.. Not my field but may get you more usable material per batch.. I am sure more knowledgeable Headfiers may add some ideas.
Cheers and good luck.
post #885 of 5048

I'm still a bit sour over what happened yesterday, but replies like this do you a lot of favours - and for those that currently own, or want to own an Audeze product, regular posts - instead of single sentence replies every 3 months - is the right way to go.


Edited by potkettleblack - 10/15/15 at 8:46am
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