Audeze LCD-4

Nov 13, 2015 at 6:12 PM Post #1,636 of 12,471
   
Having the bha-1 reach listenable levels at 8:00 is not all that great. You want some headroom for fine tuning as well as the moar power, noon is optimal. Gain should not be forgotten about either. My Peak/volcano did not have the power my Teton has but had allot more gain and is ultimately louder. I really liked the bha-1 with the lcd-3c's.

 
The BHA-1 has a special volume control technology I'm sure you are aware of, as an owner.  Permits very precise adjustments (that's all I know, sorry).  On some recordings, I go up to the 8:30 mark with the LCD-X.  When I auditioned the LCD-3F's, the volume dial was at 12:00.
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 6:22 PM Post #1,637 of 12,471
   
So the treble is more forward on the LCD-4 compared to the LCD-3F?  The LCD-3F was the first Audeze headphone I ever listened to and I liked it way more than I thought I would.  I look forward to some really good in-depth comparisons between the LCD-4 and HE1000, although I'm most interested in LCD-4 vs LCD-3F.

 
For me, the comparison that counts is between the LCD-4 and the HD800 / LCD-X.
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 8:10 PM Post #1,638 of 12,471
  Treble is more forward yes for sure but not aggressive, I would  try my best to do a more in depth comparison, I think there are a few very experienced head-fiers on this thread who have access to both and may be able to articulate the differences much better than me.

 
 
I perceive the LCD-4 as having better clarity, texture, sparkle, and extension in the treble than the LCD-3F. It's not "more aggressive" or "more forward," it just sounds much more alive and realistic to me with less of a "listening through transducers" character. To my ear, the LCD-4 also has much better bass extension and texture than the LCD-3F.
 
In terms of the overall sound of the LCD-4 vs. the 3F, the best comparison I can make is the Retina display iPhone/iPad/Mac vs. the standard resolution models. Apple uses very high quality displays, so the original displays looked really great. But then when you see and use the Retina display, you realize suddenly that you were seeing pixelation before, and everything now seems much clearer, crisper, and more real -- with the Retina display at normal viewing distance, you can't even make out the pixels. Same for the LCD-4 vs. the LCD-3F. Listening to the LCD-4 and then going back to the 3F, to me, is exactly like using a Retina display and then going back to a standard one -- you realize that with the 3F, you can subtly hear the "pixels" (subtle cues that you're listening through speakers). Finally, if you were to just take a quick look at a Retina display vs. a standard one in a crowded Apple store (analogous to listening in show or meet conditions), you might not understand what the fuss is about and think they look pretty much the same. But as soon as you spend some real time with the Retina display, you realize just how much better it is.
 
This is only my opinion; I'm biased, like everyone else, and I haven't heard everything in the world (but I do have the LCD-4 and LCD-3F).

 
Thanks guys.  So it seems that the LCD-4 is without a doubt more transparent than the LCD-3F, and perhaps more neutral?  Or at the very least, better treble extension.  Your impressions are in line with others in saying it's exceptionally detailed too, far more than the LCD-3F.  But transparency is the biggest improvement I'm reading about, and transparency is one of the most important sound qualities for me.  
 
I noticed that the HE1000 was much more transparent than every other non-electrostatic headphone I've heard.  I'm no engineer but I'm thinking it's the extremely thin diaphragms which brings them a bit closer to electrostats.
 
Also based on pictures the LCD-4 is simply beautiful, the best looking Audeze.  The LCD-3, LCD-X, and LCD-XC look great in person too.  I'll see about auditioning the LCD-4 once they're in Hi-Fi stores.
 
Quote:
   
For me, the comparison that counts is between the LCD-4 and the HD800 / LCD-X.

 
Now that you mention it, some of the things I'm reading put the LCD-4 closer in line to the LCD-X in terms of tonality.  Maybe.  I actually didn't like the LCD-X despite it having a very similar frequency response to the LCD-3, but I really liked the LCD-3F.  The LCD-X sounded much brighter to me (more than I like) and had a less engaging mid range.
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 8:24 PM Post #1,639 of 12,471
I had the X for a couple of weeks, I don't really rate that headphone. The 3F is the only Audeze that I really like, even if not as much as my HE6. It's going to be really interesting to have the 4 at home next weekend.
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 8:35 PM Post #1,640 of 12,471
   
Now that you mention it, some of the things I'm reading put the LCD-4 closer in line to the LCD-X in terms of tonality.  Maybe.  I actually didn't like the LCD-X despite it having a very similar frequency response to the LCD-3, but I really liked the LCD-3F.  The LCD-X sounded much brighter to me (more than I like) and had a less engaging mid range.

 
To each his own.  I found the 3F too dark.  That's probably why I prefer the X and the HD800.  Depends as always on the music you listen to, and the volume.  Perhaps the elder ears...I'm 58 and probably have lost some of the treble range...
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 8:37 PM Post #1,641 of 12,471
So far the general impression is that the 4 merely does somethings better than the HE1000 like focus, but doesn't crap all over it (soundstage). But the glaring thing is that the HE1000 costs $2,999 but the LCD-4,$3,995 .......
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 9:31 PM Post #1,642 of 12,471
   
To each his own.  I found the 3F too dark.  That's probably why I prefer the X and the HD800.  Depends as always on the music you listen to, and the volume.  Perhaps the elder ears...I'm 58 and probably have lost some of the treble range...

 
The strange thing is, I generally prefer more neutral headphones, ones brighter than the LCD-3F.  My all time favorite is the SR-009.  Yet I like the LCD-3F a lot more than the LCD-X.  I also really like the HD 800, albeit on a nice warm tube amp.
 
So far the general impression is that the 4 merely does somethings better than the HE1000 like focus, but doesn't crap all over it (soundstage). But the glaring thing is that the HE1000 costs $2,999 but the LCD-4,$3,995 .......

 
Yeah I never expected one to "crap all over" the other.  I assumed the HE1000 was about as good as a non-electrostat was going to get technically, and any difference beyond that will be more along the lines of different tonality rather than an outright superiority.
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 12:42 AM Post #1,643 of 12,471
  I'd like to post a few follow-up notes based on my initial listening session last evening.
 
First, some things to help provide context:
 
1. Music library was in Apple Lossless format, played back on a dedicated mac mini via bitperfect.
2. USB DAC was Resolution Audio Cantata Music Center
3. Amplifier was GS-X mk2, with only a few hours of burn-in while in my possession. I believe Justin burns them in somewhat prior to shipping, but actual time is unknown to me.
4. Cable was the stock blue balanced number provided by Audeze along the cans
5. The amp is new to me; I've never auditioned this particular model before. My only prior experience with Headamp's offerings was with a borrowed BHSE which seemed pretty neutral to me (though could get a bit bright at some seldom times). From sources I know and whose ears I trust, the GS-X mk2 is about as transparent as it can reasonably get, so I am making an assumption here that most of the things I'm reporting are not weighted by the amp's contribution.
 
The TL;DR can be summed up to paraphrase a line from a certain comic, with great resolution comes great pickyness. Great material will shine, mediocre material will sound flat and boring. Poor material will sound offensive. 
 
The go on and tell me more version follows.
 
I've been using LCD headphones ever since the LCD-2, to which my reaction upon hearing it for the very first time was "wait, can headphones output that kind of bass?" The original LCD-2 was almost a guilty pleasure to experience, simply on account of its bass rendering and, shall i dare repeat a term from the past? creamy mids. Sure, it glossed over details like an F&I manager trying to wrap up the last deal before going home for the evening, but hey, you ended up with a nice ride at the end of the day and you left happy. There was nothing that didn't sound good on the LCD-2.
 
The LCD-2.2 came along, tightening up the bass and bringing up the mids to a degree. While a competent product, and certainly more accurate than the model it replaced, to me it wasn't overly memorable, and it was thus with great excitement that I welcomed their newer addition, the LCD-3. This one brought some of the original LCD-2 magic back, while improving mids and highs in every regard. Soundstage was extended and everything was tightened up. A winner. It effortlessly handled every kind of material thrown at it; nothing sounded bad, and most things sounded stellar. A pure joy.
 
The LCD-3F I skipped, having taken a break from listening to music and for a couple of years listening to annoying child screeches instead. Fingerprints abounded in the house. Luckily, it had never dawned upon him that crayons could be used on walls. I didn't volunteer this info either. I digress. Fast-forward these couple of years, and I am now once again in a position where serenity still exists at certain times and places inside our home. This period ended to coincide - kismet! - with the LCD-4 announcement.
 
Having not spent a single penny on audio stuff in a couple of years, it was with zero hesitation, and outright impulsive, that I ordered the LCD-4 and the GS-X mk2 right away. As I mentioned in a few posts beforehand, the LCD-4 presents itself as a much more mature product, the result of a proper enterprise as opposed to cottage industry level, as the previous LCD had come across to me.
 
So on to the rendering style - it reminds me of the HD800 as well as the SR-009 in a way - it shines with great material, but can be atrocious with poor recordings. This is no doubt because of the much tighter presentation, airier soundstage, where blemishes have nowhere to hide. It's so airy, in fact, that at times it seemed as though the sound came from speakers placed some distance away from my ears. When holding the LCD-4 in my hands, their heft is not lost on me; however, once on the head, they just vanish. There's no fatigue in wearing or listening to them, which is something hugely counterintuitive, given that they are anything but light and unobtrusive. The bass is very deep and full of texture, however seems to lack some of the slam of the original LCD-2, which on the other hand lacked detail. Mids are certainly free of any of the veils plaguing previous LCD versions, and highs extend beyond what I recall ever hearing on an LCD. The energy in the upper mids-highs is tremendous. This, I believe, is the reason why sibilant and poorly-recorded material flat out sucks on the LCD-4 - there's no forgiveness. You've got crap on that track, by all means it'll shoot it right at ya. It is also the reason why great recordings sound absolutely spectacular.
 
The LCD-3 is like a date one takes to a great restaurant, and have a blast enjoying the atmosphere and the food; the LCD-4 is the uptown girl one takes to a 7-course dinner at a Michelin 3-star restaurant, where she enjoys and appreciates 5 of the courses, but on 2 of them the garnish isn't perfectly placed on the plate and therefore finds reason to complain. If all goes well, and the source material is up for it, the LCD-4 is an end-game product, but if there are shortcomings either in the recordings or the source chain, it's prowess would be squandered; and LCD-3 would be sure to please more. There are songs that delighted me as listened through the previous LCD cans, but are close to being bothersome via the LCD-4.
 
To end, for now, at least, I am absolutely in love with the LCD-4 sound, look, feel, everything. 
 
More to come as I keep listening.

 
Great write up Nick! I agree with mostly everything here. Tonight to help get away from our crazy world I pulled out an old favourite of mine (in fact, likely my most favourite album of all time): Dark Side of the Moon (latest remaster). I usually have shied away from this recording with planar headphones as I really like an expansive sound stage with it. Songs like "Great Gig in the Sky" and "Money" really benefit from headphones that can offer a truly expansive experience. Well, the LCD-4s deliver in spades here! Very, very satisfying and simply magical with the LCD-4s.
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 1:49 AM Post #1,644 of 12,471
I wish we could know if the stock cable is silver, copper, or a mixture of different metals. Also, for those that have the LCD4, is it on the warm side of neutral, or is it on the analytical side. I have heard description like being musical and very transparent. Usuall being musical tends to suggest a touch of warm whereas transparent usually is associated with being analytical even though that do not necessarily have to be the case. I heard somewhere that Audeze stated that the LCD4 sounds best with 3 watts of power, have anyone heard anything with 500mw to 1watt range? I am thinking in portable application like Mojo or Hugo, how would the LCD4 sounds?
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 2:11 AM Post #1,645 of 12,471
LCD-4 compared to HE-1000
 

With Silver Spore4 cable by DHC
 

 
 
Impressions:
 
Most striking characteristic:
LCD-4 - Rich and dense tone, much more coherent sounding than LCD3-F.
HE-1000 - Air and space, more 3D, very fast and nimble.  Has very comfortably replaced my SR-009 due to better tonal balance.
 
Presentation:
LCD-4 - dark and laid back
HE-1000 - light/airy and laid back
 
Treble:  HE-1000 > LCD-4
Treble with HE-1000 more extended, more ethereal and better layered, enthralling sense of air.
LCD-4 much improved over LCD-3F but still not in the same league as HE-1000.
 
Midrange:  LCD-4 > HE-1000
Nobody does midrange better than Audeze.  Rich and lush.  Vocals are to die for.  This is where the magic happens for this headphone.  HE-1000 also very good, just not LCD-4 good.
 
Bass:  LCD-4 = HE-1000
LCD-4 is like a 12 inch subwoofer and the HE-1000 is like a 10 inch subwoofer.  LCD-4 has more heft and presence especially in the midbass while HE-1000 provides more definition and finesse.  Both extend satisfyingly low.  Bass on HE-1000 doesn't show up unless driven by authoritative amp but with right amp, bass is no less satisfying.  LCD-4 seems less picky, maybe because of larger magnet and higher sensitivity.  Bass on HE-1000 better for classical, bass on LCD-4 better for rock.
 
Transparency:  HE-1000 > LCD-4
LCD-4 much improved compared to previous LCDs but HE-1000 still more transparent.  Neither are as transparent as SR-009.
 
Energy:  LCD-4 > HE-1000
LCD-4 with more forward presence although not at Abyss level.  HE-1000 seems thinner in comparison but certainly not lackluster when driven by amp with authority.  
 
Fatiguability: HE-1000 = LCD-4
Despite more forward presence, LCD-4 easy to listen to.  No annoying frequency issues noticeable so far.
 
Comfort (Physical):  HE-1000 > LCD-4
The LCD-4 is noticeably heavier and with less comfortable clamping pressure.  I prefer the softer pads on the HE-1000.
 
Physical Appearance and fit/finish:  LCD-4 >> HE-1000
Time will tell how well the LCD-4 holds up but it seems well built.  I am on my second pair of HE-1000s due to manufacturing issue with headstrap although experience with customer service was excellent.  LCD-4 is the most beautiful headphone I've ever seen.  Cocobolo wood is exquisite, chrome grill very tasteful and all contrast well with carbon fiber head strap.  This one's the belle of the ball.
 
Best for:
I prefer LCD-4 for pop/rock/EDM and HE-1000 for classical/jazz.  For vocals, I could be happy with either.  Vocals on LCD-4 are richer while on HE-1000, vocals are better textured and more nuanced.  LCD-4 may be a better for for big tubes (300B) while HE-1000 may pair better with smaller tubes (45s, 2A3s) but certainly not mutually exclusive.
 
In Summary:
Both are worthy of flagship status for their respective manufacturers.  Both are well executed designs and both excel in producing an enjoyable and engaging listening experience for hours on end.  HE-1000 seems more picky about amp to sound its best but both deserve amps that put out plenty of current.  Both scale very well with the equipment you place before them.  At this level, as with most things, it comes down to personal preference.  The two complement each other well.
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 2:41 AM Post #1,647 of 12,471
So both are laid-back? Hmmm, perhaps my upcoming big purchase will be the Abyss after all.
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 2:53 AM Post #1,648 of 12,471
Great write up, glad to hear they complement each other well. Just wondering what you used to drive them?
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 2:58 AM Post #1,649 of 12,471
@romaz Very nice comparison. I was not able to put my finger on what was different about the bass, this would help me go back and hear. I was driving HE-1K with HA-1, and looks like I may have to try a different source DAC to get a better idea of treble on HE-1K.
 
Nov 14, 2015 at 3:37 AM Post #1,650 of 12,471
Awesome review Romaz. Great pictures.

Btw, I love the > and = signs. They make it very clear what is happening.

Are you by any chance the same individual who compared 5 headphones, including the HE-6, using that style? That was a legendary review. I wish I could find it again.

Sent from my LGLS660 using Tapatalk
 

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