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Gustard X20 DAC
Oct 13, 2015 at 2:48 PM Post #136 of 1,320
mashi-maro said:
First impressions compared to iDSD Micro are:
- much more and deeper bass (like I bought a sub)
- highs quite sharp
- mids more recessed and not as sweet/analogue but more detailed
- more fatiguing after about 1h

DSD differences more obvious than PCM.

This is on a brand new X20 unit not run in. 
Click to expand...


The iDSDs are very smooth DACs and the Sabre chips are probably the sharpest. Some Sabre implementations are quite smooth (and Afaik the x20 should be too) but I doubt any of them has iDSD-like smoothness.
There may be some changes after a few days but you should not expect wonders.
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 2:56 PM Post #137 of 1,320
wynnytsky said:
   
I don't own phones :frowning2:
 
A friend pointed out that my tube preamp is very dialed back up top, but this balanced well with D18 + Thiels (aluminum tweeters).  At times I used silver cables here-and-there but when my other components improved I eventually retreated to copper.  I feel the X20 keeps a safe distance from the edge where excitement becomes painful treble, but I'm sure I'll be able to reclaim that territory when I switch from a 4m AES to a 0.3m IIS (silver at that).  In the end I'm so glad I got this X20 because a much greater percentage of my music library is now enjoyable on my big system (where just about everything sounds good on my computer speakers).  I would actually be upset had the X20 been around for a while and I was just now upgrading.
 
I'm still several weeks away from stacking these two DACs to do real-time A/B comparisons and I'm trying to defer my critique til then.
Click to expand...

 
 
Agree, at that time the real comparisson should begin, personally i love my D18 with my H10 and with my 600 and mainly my brothers T1, that sounded like a piece of heaven, but he is another country so no usb interface and no T1 for me :).
 
What i find surprising  (in a good way) is that fortunately i dont find that harsh treble in my system, hope it stays that way when i have more time with my future T1 (one day...i dream now but one day eheh).
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 5:44 PM Post #138 of 1,320
popcorn.gif

 
Oct 14, 2015 at 9:45 AM Post #140 of 1,320
I found a download link of the manual (only in Chinese but better than nothing), in which Clock Mode was explained.
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1qWmoQWs
 -----------
在历时多年的研发之下，DAC-X20 被赋予了这个独特的功能，用以将ES9018S转换芯片设置在
最佳的时钟环境当中，使其达到HI-END 级别的性能。当选择为AUTO 时，DAC-X20将进入自适
应主时钟模式，一组由高性能锁相环产生的主时钟将直接供应到ES9018，由于主时钟与信号
时钟不再是常规模式下的异步方式，ES9018 数字滤波的插值将不会再产生微弱的误差，原本
的数字信号会被精确的还原为模拟信号。当选择NORMAL 选项时，时钟模式为常规模式，也就
ES9018 的官方设计方式。
*在AUTO模式下，DAC-X20的主时钟质量会较为依赖前端音源的时钟质量，建议在前端音源设备较好的境况下开启此模式。
 ------------
[Google]
Under the multiyear research and development, DAC-X20 has been given this unique feature for the ES9018S converter chip set in
Best of clock environment, to reach the HI-END level of performance. When you select the AUTO, DAC-X20 will enter the adaptive
Should master clock mode, a master clock generated by the high-performance phase-locked loop will be directly supplied to the ES9018, since the main clock signal
The clock is no longer a conventional asynchronous mode, ES9018 digital interpolation filter will no longer produce a weak error, the original
The digital signal will be accurately restored to an analog signal. When selecting NORMAL option, the clock mode to normal mode, it
ES9018 official design.
* In AUTO mode, the main clock quality DAC-X20 will be more dependent on the quality of the front end of the clock sources is recommended in Front Audio equipment better situation turn this mode.
 
Oct 15, 2015 at 2:19 PM Post #142 of 1,320
minorisuke said:
  I found a download link of the manual (only in Chinese but better than nothing), in which Clock Mode was explained.
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1qWmoQWs
 -----------
在历时多年的研发之下，DAC-X20 被赋予了这个独特的功能，用以将ES9018S转换芯片设置在
最佳的时钟环境当中，使其达到HI-END 级别的性能。当选择为AUTO 时，DAC-X20将进入自适
应主时钟模式，一组由高性能锁相环产生的主时钟将直接供应到ES9018，由于主时钟与信号
时钟不再是常规模式下的异步方式，ES9018 数字滤波的插值将不会再产生微弱的误差，原本
的数字信号会被精确的还原为模拟信号。当选择NORMAL 选项时，时钟模式为常规模式，也就
ES9018 的官方设计方式。
*在AUTO模式下，DAC-X20的主时钟质量会较为依赖前端音源的时钟质量，建议在前端音源设备较好的境况下开启此模式。
 ------------
[Google]
Under the multiyear research and development, DAC-X20 has been given this unique feature for the ES9018S converter chip set in
Best of clock environment, to reach the HI-END level of performance. When you select the AUTO, DAC-X20 will enter the adaptive
Should master clock mode, a master clock generated by the high-performance phase-locked loop will be directly supplied to the ES9018, since the main clock signal
The clock is no longer a conventional asynchronous mode, ES9018 digital interpolation filter will no longer produce a weak error, the original
The digital signal will be accurately restored to an analog signal. When selecting NORMAL option, the clock mode to normal mode, it
ES9018 official design.
* In AUTO mode, the main clock quality DAC-X20 will be more dependent on the quality of the front end of the clock sources is recommended in Front Audio equipment better situation turn this mode.
Click to expand...

This makes sense to me now.  If you have a very good, low jitter front end, the sound  should be better in "auto" mode and in reality (my experience), it IS.   The Regen/Tanly combo is top notch and the built in ES9018S clock system would only add distortion.  I'm glad to get this confirmation because without knowing anything about its function, I had greatly preferred the "auto" setting from the start.
 
Actually, now that I think about it, this feature of the X20 is HUGE.   For those of us using desktops/tablets/laptops as a source with usb output, this feature will multiply the importance and effects of a superb USB-DDC.  You are really going to hear how good your DDC is.  I might even say that comparisons/reviews of various DDC's will be quite compromised without this feature. This is of course the case with the ES9018 Dacs and any other DAC chip that re-clocks asynchronously.
 
Oct 15, 2015 at 8:07 PM Post #143 of 1,320
I have got x20 at last.
Through U12 SQ is not very impressive, and after switched back to its own usb port that improves sound quality.
Is it expected result?
 
I have SMSL m8 connected to through U12 and compared each with x20, which is connected to the same u12 via HDMI, or IIS port.
Therefore I can switched back and forth by the button of Soloist.
Surprisingly there is no difference, and many time I repeated the same comparison. The result was the same.
When I connected x20 to usb, and there is some difference, which was noticeable.
Also I found that there was no noticeable difference to filter choice.
 
Maybe there were some recording quality limitation or limitation U12.
 
Question is X20 is scalable with improvement of source like usb ddc converter or cable, or balanced setup?
 
Oct 16, 2015 at 3:29 AM Post #144 of 1,320
joong said:
  I have got x20 at last.
Through U12 SQ is not very impressive, and after switched back to its own usb port that improves sound quality.
Is it expected result?
 
.....
 
Maybe there were some recording quality limitation or limitation U12.
 
.....
Click to expand...

I am replying also to my question (#113).  My U12 is the second one which came together with X20U five days ago.  I know U12 needs burn-in for more than 100 hours and mine has reached this goal.
However, the sound of U12 via I2S to X20U is still very stiff both in NORMAL and AUTO clock mode.  As I changed to the internal USB-I2S board, I heard richer sound, although this internal board has not been burnt in yet.  The internal board is from the latest design, whereas U12 at least one year old.  It seems Gustard has fixed DSD channel swap issue in U12 without any official notice and its carton is now with a nice logo printed on it, but I do not think the internal circuit has been re-designed.
 
Oct 16, 2015 at 4:29 AM Post #145 of 1,320
UPDATE:
 
After "burning in" the X20, things have improved a lot. I never used to believe in "burning in" but seems real so far.
 
The tracks that I thought were sharp are ok now and the dynamic range/sound stage has improved heaps. It's so much more exciting than the iDSD now which feels a bit dull and less detailed now. 
 
 
Re: which clock mode, if I'm using USB output from a intel NUC then should I use Auto or Normal?
 
Oct 16, 2015 at 9:47 AM Post #146 of 1,320
minorisuke said:
  在历时多年的研发之下，DAC-X20 被赋予了这个独特的功能，用以将ES9018S转换芯片设置在
最佳的时钟环境当中，使其达到HI-END 级别的性能。当选择为AUTO 时，DAC-X20将进入自适
应主时钟模式，一组由高性能锁相环产生的主时钟将直接供应到ES9018，由于主时钟与信号
时钟不再是常规模式下的异步方式，ES9018 数字滤波的插值将不会再产生微弱的误差，原本
的数字信号会被精确的还原为模拟信号。当选择NORMAL 选项时，时钟模式为常规模式，也就
ES9018 的官方设计方式。
*在AUTO模式下，DAC-X20的主时钟质量会较为依赖前端音源的时钟质量，建议在前端音源设备较好的境况下开启此模式。
Click to expand...

ha, my post #133 was darn close to this!
 
joong said:
  I have SMSL m8 connected to through U12 and compared each with x20, which is connected to the same u12 via HDMI, or IIS port.
Therefore I can switched back and forth by the button of Soloist.
Click to expand...


It's great that your Soloist amp has two inputs so that you can conduct this A/B test.  I intend to do the same via my speaker-fi preamp at the end of the month.
 
joong said:
  Also I found that there was no noticeable difference to filter choice.
Click to expand...

yikes - from this statement I might conclude that the earphones (or the ears) aren't resolving enough.
I assume your are doing playback via XMOS ASIO or WASAPI?
And via the X20 USB input you also aren't hearing a difference between SLOW/SHARP?
 
mashi-maro said:
 
Re: which clock mode, if I'm using USB output from a intel NUC then should I use Auto or Normal?
Click to expand...

The transport shouldn't matter.  And if you're using the USB input on the X20 (or any input from a U12) then you can safely keep it on AUTO because both of these devices have demonstrated that they are good enough to skip the ES9018 asynch digital interpolation.  I suppose if anyone has a PC/laptop with optical out then that would be the crappiest digital source possible to see if NORMAL ever has an advantage.  I would expect the X20 would fail to handshake with a dirty source while on AUTO.
 
Oct 19, 2015 at 4:57 PM Post #148 of 1,320
joong said:
  I have got x20 at last.
Through U12 SQ is not very impressive, and after switched back to its own usb port that improves sound quality.
Is it expected result?
 
I have SMSL m8 connected to through U12 and compared each with x20, which is connected to the same u12 via HDMI, or IIS port.
Therefore I can switched back and forth by the button of Soloist.
Surprisingly there is no difference, and many time I repeated the same comparison. The result was the same.
When I connected x20 to usb, and there is some difference, which was noticeable.
Also I found that there was no noticeable difference to filter choice.
 
Maybe there were some recording quality limitation or limitation U12.
 
Question is X20 is scalable with improvement of source like usb ddc converter or cable, or balanced setup?
Click to expand...

 
The U12 is good, but certainly not great.  Not knowing your full system I couldn't say if the U12 was your limiting factor.  It certainly was in my system. The Tanly USB-DDC was far superior and this was particularly apparent in the "auto" clock mode.   The difference between the "slow" and "sharp" filter is very subtle and I wouldn't be surprised if many people can't hear the difference.  Everything else in the chain has to be highly resolving (mostly amplifier and headphones) to hear it.  I would suggest running your X20 for about 50 to 100  hours before making any conclusions in your comparison to the SMSL M8.  In my experience, the X20 really bloomed with the extra hours on it.  I would imagine that your M8 is very well broken in.
 
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