mojoaudio said:

Anyone that is using some sort of SMPS or wall wart on their source could have significant gains in performance by upgrading to ANY linear power supply. Remember: you need to remove all SMPS from your AC circuit (everything on the same circuit breaker) in order to totally remove the "hash" that pollutes your system's grounding. Even one small wall wart on an external HDD or USB converter can significantly degrade your system's performance.

Click to expand...

Does this mean we should unplug our Regen wall warts?

mojoaudio said:

 
For example, if your Hugo DAC runs off of some type of small SMPS, I have no doubt you could TRANSFORM your system by powering it with a good LPS. Even one of those DIY boards from eBay would likely make a notable improvement. And most of that improvement would have to do with replacing a basic SMPS with a basic LPS.
 
Anyone that is using some sort of SMPS or wall wart on their source could have significant gains in performance by upgrading to ANY linear power supply. Remember: you need to remove all SMPS from your AC circuit (everything on the same circuit breaker) in order to totally remove the "hash" that pollutes your system's grounding. Even one small wall wart on an external HDD or USB converter can significantly degrade your system's performance.

Click to expand...

 
Turns out the Hugo fundamentally runs on battery power, and all plugging it in does is trickle-charge the battery. 
 
I took my LPS off my desk. I think my system sounds better now, but it could be placebo effect and I'm too lazy to really A/B it.
 
From your last paragraph, however...If I have my Macbook Pro plugged into the same power strip as my MZ2, would even that affect the system grounding? 
 
(I never would have given this stuff any credence anyway as recently as a few weeks ago, when I had to wipe the smile off my face from the difference the LPS made.)

defbear said:

Does this mean we should unplug our Regen wall warts?

Click to expand...

 
YES...I can't think of any place in your system you would most want to unplug your wall wart.
 
Like I always say: "If it doesn't come from your source it can't come out of your speakers/headphones."
 
Let that be your anti-audiophile voodoo mantra
 
So if there was any place an good power supply would improve your system it would be there.
But don't even get me started on those "magic boxes" to reclock or regen or regurgitate your USB signal in general
 
(Too late...I feet a rant coming on)
 
I have to respect their marketing: somehow these companies that make "magic boxes" have convinced the audiophile world that up is down,  black is white, and the rules of physics don't apply.
 
Please everyone, tell me how insane this all sounds when someone with a small bit of technical expertise re-frames the "magic box" theory with a bit of logic.
 
Here comes the logic...
 
All audiophile USB devices work the same: they have an input receiver chip, clocks, an output driver chip, and power supplies.
Sorry...there is nothing out there made from magic chips or clocks that can bend the rules of space and time
 
All a "regenerator" or a "reclocker" is in fact is an asynchronous USB input/converter. Period.
 
Some convert from USB to USB...some from USB to S/PDIF...some from USB to I2S...often the same chip does it all.
 
The EXACT same type of chips, clocks, and power supplies are used on the input stage of all DACs.
 
Yes, all DACs.
 
So all things being equal, how would it be possible to add additional components and cables between a computer and a DAC that could improve the sound?
 
There are only two ways: your computer is polluting your entire system with dirty USB buss power and/or your DAC has a mediocre input stage with poor isolation, poor clocking, and/or poor power supplies.
 
According to logic, could there be another answer?
 
If the parts and circuit at the input stage of your DAC was equal in quality to the parts and circuit in your magic box it would sound worse when you add a redundant external USB device, not better. Sort of like when you use a cheap $10 cable splitter, extender, or adapter with good interconnects: it may sound close but always subtly less than without.
 
If one of these magic boxes improves the sound coming from a proper computer server (I'll get into that later) all that means is the company that made your DAC used a crap USB input stage. Those cheap USB stages have bad power supplies, bad clocks, and bad isolation, but use identical circuits and identical USB receiver chips as the finest DACs in the world.
 
So what about all that noise from the USB buss on your computer?
 
The companies that make those V style USB cables with signal and power separated have the right idea. If your computer source has noisy USB buss power (any laptop) you can isolate your DAC from that noise and provide good, clean, +5V from a battery or small linear power supply. If the USB output stage on your computer is noisy, but your DAC has a proper USB input stage, a cable that isolates your buss power would sound as good or better than one of those magic boxes.
 
As long as I'm ranting about digital audiophile voodoo, I might as well get into what makes a proper server.
 
Did anyone guess?
 
POWER SUPPLY!
 
Yes, the better and more isolated your power supplies for each component the better the server.
 
In addition to that, you need a dedicated PCIe USB card, such as a SoTM, JCAT, or Paul Pang.
 
These cards actually take the music data from the computer's "super highway" PCI buss, isolate the power supply, and use excellent quality USB sending chips and clocks. Yes, before the data is corrupted, these dedicated USB cards perform the same function as those magic boxes, only better.
 
You don't have to spend a pile of $$$ for a proper audiophile server...roughly what you would need to spend for a decent laptop.
 
Here's a link to one of my competitor's that makes a very high value server:
 
http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server_c5.htm
 
For the DIYers out there, here's the "how to" on Computer Audiophile:
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/497-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-zuma/
 
I would recommend replacing the battery from the original ZUMA recipe with that modest priced HD Plex LPS The Small Green Computer guys are using. That HD Plex LPS has multiple voltages to power every card, board, and drive in the sever chassis independently.
 
It even has a spare 12V output for an external drive, DAC, or USB device (did you guys with the Hugo DACs read that?).
 
http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-Linear-Power-Supply-for-PC-Audio-and-CE-device.html
 
And if you got this larger HD Plex power supply you could power BOTH your computer server AND your mZ2
 
http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-300W-ATX-Linear-Power-Supply-with-Modular-ATX-Output.html
 
And if you have deeper pockets and want about 20% more performance from your computer server and headphone amp you can contact me off forum and I could recommend a better power supply and a few more tricks to squeeze that last little bit out from your favorite digital music
 
Bottom line is that if you want to get all your mZ2 is capable of delivering you need to have a balanced system. Most people I know spend too much on their headphones and not nearly enough on their source.
 
This statement holds true of ANY audio component: you can never get back something you lost in an earlier stage.
 
If anywhere between your source and your speakers/headphones you have a weak link in your audio chain the resolution of your system is now limited by whatever that cable or component may be.
 
Anyone telling you otherwise is selling VOODOO.
 
Some balanced system recommendations:
 
If you have an mZ2  and DAC/headphones that each sell for over $1,000 I would recommend upgrading to the ZOTL LPS.
 
If you have an mZ2 and DAC/headphones that each sell for over $2,000 than I would recommend upgrading to a proper computer server and the ZOTL LPS. That system would most certainly appreciate a better PSU than the ZOTL LPS for your mZ2.
 
If you have an mZ2 and DAC/headphones that each sell for over $3,000 then I would most certainly recommend a proper server with a better PSU than the HD Plex and the best PSU you can find for your mZ2.
 
With all of the above should go proportionally upgraded USB cables and interconnects.
 
If you didn't spend at least 2/3 as much on your source components as your headphones your system is out of balance and you are not getting nearly all the performance you can get from your mZ2. All you're doing is amplifying distortion and noise that your beloved headphones are now allowing you to hear more clearly than ever.
 
Seriously: does it make sense to any of you to have a $1,000 turntable with a $1,000 cartridge and a $5,000 phono preamp?
 
If not, then it doesn't make sense to have a cheap server and a magic box as the source for any decent DAC or to have headphones that cost more than your DAC and mZ2 power supply combined. Unless of course you love to listen to distortion.
 
Similarly, if you have a high-end source and high-end headphones it doesn't make sense to limit your mZ2 based with a power supply that is not up with the rest of your system.
 
End of ranting  

zachawry said:

   
Turns out the Hugo fundamentally runs on battery power, and all plugging it in does is trickle-charge the battery. 
 
I took my LPS off my desk. I think my system sounds better now, but it could be placebo effect and I'm too lazy to really A/B it.
 
From your last paragraph, however...If I have my Macbook Pro plugged into the same power strip as my MZ2, would even that affect the system grounding? 
 
(I never would have given this stuff any credence anyway as recently as a few weeks ago, when I had to wipe the smile off my face from the difference the LPS made.)

Click to expand...

 
I can't put this any plainer: get rid of all the SMPS and wall warts in your system and replace them with any battery or linear power supply.
 
It doesn't matter if it has a "trickle charger" or mostly runs on batteries - that SMPS/wall wart is polluting your entire system's grounding to some extent.

mojoaudio said:

YES...I can't think of any place in your system you would most want to unplug your wall wart.

Like I always say: "If it doesn't come from your source it can't come out of your speakers/headphones."

Let that be your anti-audiophile voodoo mantra :blink:

So if there was any place an good power supply would improve your system it would be there.
But don't even get me started on those "magic boxes" to reclock or regen or regurgitate your USB signal in general :confused_face_2:

(Too late...I feet a rant coming on)

I have to respect their marketing: somehow these companies that make "magic boxes" have convinced the audiophile world that up is down,  black is white, and the rules of physics don't apply.

Please everyone, tell me how insane this all sounds when someone with a small bit of technical expertise re-frames the "magic box" theory with a bit of logic.

Here comes the logic...

All audiophile USB devices work the same: they have an input receiver chip, clocks, an output driver chip, and power supplies.
Sorry...there is nothing out there made from magic chips or clocks that can bend the rules of space and time

All a "regenerator" or a "reclocker" is in fact is an asynchronous USB input/converter. Period.

Some convert from USB to USB...some from USB to S/PDIF...some from USB to I2S...often the same chip does it all.

The EXACT same type of chips, clocks, and power supplies are used on the input stage of all DACs.

Yes, all DACs.

So all things being equal, how would it be possible to add additional components and cables between a computer and a DAC that could improve the sound?

There are only two ways: your computer is polluting your entire system with dirty USB buss power and/or your DAC has a mediocre input stage with poor isolation, poor clocking, and/or poor power supplies.

According to logic, could there be another answer?

If the parts and circuit at the input stage of your DAC was equal in quality to the parts and circuit in your magic box it would sound worse when you add a redundant external USB device, not better. Sort of like when you use a cheap $10 cable splitter, extender, or adapter with good interconnects: it may sound close but always subtly less than without.

If one of these magic boxes improves the sound coming from a proper computer server (I'll get into that later) all that means is the company that made your DAC used a crap USB input stage. Those cheap USB stages have bad power supplies, bad clocks, and bad isolation, but use identical circuits and identical USB receiver chips as the finest DACs in the world.

So what about all that noise from the USB buss on your computer?

The companies that make those V style USB cables with signal and power separated have the right idea. If your computer source has noisy USB buss power (any laptop) you can isolate your DAC from that noise and provide good, clean, +5V from a battery or small linear power supply. If the USB output stage on your computer is noisy, but your DAC has a proper USB input stage, a cable that isolates your buss power would sound as good or better than one of those magic boxes.

As long as I'm ranting about digital audiophile voodoo, I might as well get into what makes a proper server.

Did anyone guess?

POWER SUPPLY!

Yes, the better and more isolated your power supplies for each component the better the server.

In addition to that, you need a dedicated PCIe USB card, such as a SoTM, JCAT, or Paul Pang.

These cards actually take the music data from the computer's "super highway" PCI buss, isolate the power supply, and use excellent quality USB sending chips and clocks. Yes, before the data is corrupted, these dedicated USB cards perform the same function as those magic boxes, only better.

You don't have to spend a pile of $$$ for a proper audiophile server...roughly what you would need to spend for a decent laptop.

Here's a link to one of my competitor's that makes a very high value server:

http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server_c5.htm

For the DIYers out there, here's the "how to" on Computer Audiophile:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/497-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-zuma/

I would recommend replacing the battery from the original ZUMA recipe with that modest priced HD Plex LPS The Small Green Computer guys are using. That HD Plex LPS has multiple voltages to power every card, board, and drive in the sever chassis independently.

It even has a spare 12V output for an external drive, DAC, or USB device (did you guys with the Hugo DACs read that?).

http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-Linear-Power-Supply-for-PC-Audio-and-CE-device.html

And if you got this larger HD Plex power supply you could power BOTH your computer server AND your mZ2 :atsmile:

http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-300W-ATX-Linear-Power-Supply-with-Modular-ATX-Output.html

And if you have deeper pockets and want about 20% more performance from your computer server and headphone amp you can contact me off forum and I could recommend a better power supply and a few more tricks to squeeze that last little bit out from your favorite digital music :wink_face:

Bottom line is that if you want to get all your mZ2 is capable of delivering you need to have a balanced system. Most people I know spend too much on their headphones and not nearly enough on their source.

This statement holds true of ANY audio component: you can never get back something you lost in an earlier stage.

If anywhere between your source and your speakers/headphones you have a weak link in your audio chain the resolution of your system is now limited by whatever that cable or component may be.

Anyone telling you otherwise is selling VOODOO.

Some balanced system recommendations:

If you have an mZ2  and DAC/headphones that each sell for over $1,000 I would recommend upgrading to the ZOTL LPS.

If you have an mZ2 and DAC/headphones that each sell for over $2,000 than I would recommend upgrading to a proper computer server and the ZOTL LPS. That system would most certainly appreciate a better PSU than the ZOTL LPS for your mZ2.

If you have an mZ2 and DAC/headphones that each sell for over $3,000 then I would most certainly recommend a proper server with a better PSU than the HD Plex and the best PSU you can find for your mZ2.

With all of the above should go proportionally upgraded USB cables and interconnects.

If you didn't spend at least 2/3 as much on your source components as your headphones your system is out of balance and you are not getting nearly all the performance you can get from your mZ2. All you're doing is amplifying distortion and noise that your beloved headphones are now allowing you to hear more clearly than ever.

Seriously: does it make sense to any of you to have a $1,000 turntable with a $1,000 cartridge and a $5,000 phono preamp?

If not, then it doesn't make sense to have a cheap server and a magic box as the source for any decent DAC or to have headphones that cost more than your DAC and mZ2 power supply combined. Unless of course you love to listen to distortion.

Similarly, if you have a high-end source and high-end headphones it doesn't make sense to limit your mZ2 based with a power supply that is not up with the rest of your system.

End of ranting :atsmile:  

Click to expand...

That's what I thought you would say

The Regen did zip for my system. I'm running late 2013 MacBook Pro into a BiFrost Multibit into the MZL. I bought the Intona 'industrial strength' version USB reclocker box. Runs off USB power. It made a noticeable improvement. Wider soundstage, bass, detail and buzzwords. Same with my Master11. Heavens to Murgatroid! I'm flabbergasted. Especially after reading your posts.

defbear said:

 

Click to expand...

 
I hope I made sense.
 
The reason these companies can sell their magic boxes is that there are SO many audiophiles attached to the convenience of their laptops.
 
Simple...easy...compact...attractive.
 
But there are also so many cost competitive solutions to a laptop that are much higher performance. Another high-value and high-performance server that will outperform any laptop can be DIYed with a Raspberry Pi and a few of those eBay power supplies for under $500.
 
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/05/23/review-raspberry-pi-2-as-music-streamer/
 
Think about this...
 
Any >$1,000 DAC from a company that doesn't have a USB input stage equal to a $300 magic box would make me suspect of their other circuitry.
 
Most DAC manufacturers use other companies USB technology - they buy a USB input board from a specialty company. These boards cost $25-$100 each and can be powered by anything from the dirty USB buss power to several independent power supplies that isolate every stage.
 
Companies that cheap out buy the USB buss powered $25 board and still brag about having32-bit 384KHz resolution (LOL!).
 
Dr. Blue was one of the local audiophile that did some blind USB board comparisons for me this past winter. I used the same prototype DAC and the same power supplies, but then plugged different USB boards from different manufacturers in and out to learn if there was any consistent preference among my test listeners. For example, the same group of blind listeners compared DAC chips prior to the USB boards and they agreed 100%. I actually won a bet with my head tech Frank who said no one could consistently tell the difference between Analog Devices and Burr-Brow's best NOS 20-bit R-2R DAC chips.
 
But back to USB boards...
 
With everything as equal as possible, and even several of the boards using the EXACT same brands of chips and clocks, the difference in the sound quality of these supposedly bit perfect 32-bit 384KHz USB boards blew all of our minds.
 
There was significantly more sonic differences between the USB boards than the DAC chips (seriously).
 
If I blindfolded everyone and told them I was switching between different brands of speakers or headphones everyone would have easily believed me.
 
If you think I'm exaggerating ask Dr. Blue. The first time I did a blind USB switch on him he couldn't believe he was listening to the same headphones.
 
BTW, we did those blind listening tests on DAC chips, op amps, and USB boards on my upgraded mZ2 and my upgraded HD800s as well as using my mZ2 as the system preamp playing through my highly modified Maggies. Yes, the mZ2 can be THAT resolving. I honestly couldn't have done my DAC prototyping this year without my mZ2  

Your posts are marvellously informative , thank you for your precious time , a pleasure to read....I just want to give my personal observation but with humility because i know nothing about engineering and serious audio, i am just the guy next door who try to buy the best at not too high price for modest audiophile experience...
 
I have recently experiment with sorbothane and  i have discover that any piece of gear vibrate, interact, and put noise in the gear chain...Little by little i had try to put sorbothane in all and every one piece of gear from the power conditioner to the headphone with great results and the astonishing discovery that ALL gear introduce noise ( not only from a bad power supply and a bad usb port but by the presence of their  resonant and all vibrating part) and this without consideration of price, one way to remedy this problem for me was to put the right sorbothane duro, if possible with a compression device or load in  every one and each piece of my gear...For the cost the improvement seems to me extraordinary... My  neophyte question to the  specialist in the art  of audio:  are audio specialist   concious of this vibration plague in all piece of audio gear ? If so what are the solution ? sorbothane is one for me and very good one solution they are perhaps others ...thanks for all your dedication, time and generosity  ... 
 
p.s. My first act when i will buy the zotl +psu  for my Stax  headphone will be to put some heavy load on top of the 2 gear with sorbothane under  them and in my experience this will be a great upgrade ... 

richard51 said:

  Your posts are marvellously informative , thank you for your precious time , a pleasure to read....I just want to give my personal observation but with humility because i know nothing about engineering and serious audio, i am just the guy next door who try to buy the best at not too high price for modest audiophile experience...I have recently experiment with sorbothane and  i have discover that any piece of gear vibrate, interact, and put noise in the gear chain...Little by little i had try to put sorbothane in all and every one piece of gear from the power conditioner to the headphone with great results and the astonishing discovery that ALL gear introduce noise ( not only from a bad power supply and a bad usb port but by the presence of their  resonant and all vibrating part)without consideration of price, one way to remedy this problem for me was to put the right sorbothane duro, if possible with a compression device or load in  every one and each piece of my gear...For the cost the improvement seems to me extraordinary... My  neophyte question to the  specialist in the art  of audio:  are audio specialist   concious of this vibration plague in all piece of audio gear ? If so what are the solution ? sorbothane is one for me and very good one solution they are perhaps others ...thanks for all your dedication, time and generosity ...

 

Click to expand...

 
OK...you asked for it.
 
First thing you need to understand is how mechanical vibration translates into "noise" in an audio component.
 
What happens is the micro-vibrations on each part cause micro-voltages to be generated.
 
Different parts have different resonance frequencies as well as different electrical intensities and different electrical patterns.
 
Now think about that: depending on what type of music you listen to, and what volume you listen to it at, different component parts in your system will produce distortion in various patterns that give the effect of more/less bass/highs, more/less air/image, or more/less tone/texture/timbre.
 
Keep in mind that all of those are FALSE - an attractive distortion caused by imperfect vibration control.
 
So now you can understand how you could use different anti-resonance products under different components and get different sonic signatures. Each product dampens vibrations in different frequency ranges more effectively resulting in different parts in the gear producing different patterns of electrical distortion.
 
Blows my mind
 
What that translates to is there is no "one size fits all" or in your case, no one product such as Sorbothane, that can fix all vibration issues.
 
Don't get me wrong...I use Sorbothane feet on all my entry level components and I would recommend that my customers mass load my products if they can.
 
Before I started to offer Stillpoints Ultra Minis as an upgrade to the Sorbothane feet we've been using for almost a decade I did more of those blind listening tests with local audiophiles.
 
I asked them to bring over their favorite anti-resonant products and we compared them on a DAC and server. Here is what we learned:
 
The $2.40/set EAR Sorbothane feet I've been using for years sounded better than 90% of the expensive feet we compared.
 
A set of exotic wooden cones like the ones below that sell for >$20/set beat almost any product we compared for up to $500.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebony-Audio-feet-Cone-Amp-CDP-Turntable-feet-base-Isolator-High-end-audio-/121975555057?hash=item1c664f43f1:g:K~kAAOSwv0tVFU2U
 
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/equipment-supports/334-oak-cone-feet-set-of-3.html
 
These are the wooden cones I have that have been blowing audiophile's minds for years...
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/nws04-4x-30mm-Wood-Speaker-Spike-Isolation-Feet-Stand-Cone-Turntable-Amp-HiFi-/301291296022?hash=item46265c5516
 
There are some great high-value products made by Herbies Audio Lab that are sort of like a more sophisticated Sorbothane we all liked better than Sorbothane. Originally I used Herbie's feet on our power supplies but we found their adhesive would keep coming off so we switched to the screw mounted Sorbothane feet we currently use. If you handle them gently I would recommend most of Herbie's products.
 
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm
 
And the winner and all time champion of all the feet we compared were the Stillpoints Ultra Minis. I've had customers upgrade the Sorbothane feet on their DAC to these Stillpoints and love them so much they special ordered more sets for other components in their system. I've never found anything better.
 
http://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/ultra/98-ultra-mini#!ultra_group
 
Stillpoints also makes a Sorbothane circuit board mount that is very effective. With my next gen DAC I'm planning another one of those blind listening tests with several different industrial, aerospace, and audiophile anti-resonant PCB stand offs. My guess is that Stillpoints is buying these from some aerospace manufacturer and re-branding them, but I have no evidence. Companies that specialize in hardware like McMaster-Carr have industrial versions of these PCB standoffs.
 
http://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/oem/261-oem-stand-off
 
And then there are "sticky sheet" products that were developed by the US Navy for submarine noise reduction (seriously) that are now most commonly used in car stereo installations to minimize the resonance in metal car panels. These products are excellent at dampening chassis resonance.
 
http://www.b-quiet.com/collections/all
 
I plan on using some of this as part of my mZ2 upgrades. I would recommend putting a strip of the "B-Quiet Extreme" on the solid part of the L side, R side, and bottom, as well as fit pieces over as much of the inside of face and rear of the mZ2 as you can fit.
 
I would also recommend replacing the feet on the mZ2 with either those EAR Sorbothane feet, a Herbie's product, or Stillpoints Ultra Minis ($10-$320), as well as some type of PCB anti-resonance stand off ($10-$100). A mass loading weight on top of the mZ2 would also help as well as tube dampeners such as these (order by size):
 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=audiophile+silicone+tube+dampeners&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xaudiophile+silicone+tube+dampers.TRS0&_nkw=audiophile+silicone+tube+dampers&_sacat=0
 
There you all go: a perfect upgrade for the mZ2 that requires little technical expertise and common household tools
 
Did you notice that my recommended mZ2 anti-resonance upgrade used a variety of different materials applied to different locations?
 
So some Sorbothane could be used, but Sorbothane is not the best and definitely not the only answer.
 
Another thing to know about Sorbothane or any other "gooey" audiophile anti-resonant feet product is that they all come in different values called "durometer. "  This value determines the compression weight of the soft polymer product. Depending on the specific resonance frequency and weight of your component would depend on what durometer Sorbothane would best dampen your chassis.
 
So even with Sorbothane there is not one specific answer.
 
Similarly, depending on the resonance frequency of your component's chassis, and depending on the durometer of your Sorbothane, you would want to use a different amount of mass loading.
 
The reason Herbie's products are so good is that he engineered Sorbothane like products with resonance frequencies more optimal for audio components. I believe he has some detailed explanations on his website.
 
So now that I have you all totally confused, what should you do?
 
There are two ways to go:
 
Get insanely expensive sonic generator and vibration measuring equipment to test every component in your system so you can apply perfectly tuned anti-resonance products.
 
OR
 
Learn some of the basic theories about the different anti-resonant products (soft feet, B-Quiet sheets, cones, spikes, decoupling balls (like Stillpoints), PCB stand offs, tube dampeners, etc), buy an assortment, and test them in various combinations on your equipment. I have a whole divided plastic hobby/hardware case full of the stuff.
 
Eventually you'll find some combinations that work best for you with different types of components.
 
I guess I shouldn't mention that I could give you all similar info on electrical shielding, grounding, and isolation?
 
Another day.
I'm going to pick out a recording I haven't listened to in a long time and have an ear-gasm listening to it for the first time on my Stax Omegas  

thanks for your detailed response and expertise.... i will digest all that ....I dont think either  that sorbothane is the one absolute solution...But my point is this is one not costly step.... And after many experience with all duro i settle for 70 duro compressed with great benefit for my speakers and power conditioner and dac..By the way i have observe that without compression and with the wrong duro the results are mediocre or not so great. But with compression the results go on in the same direction, better imaging etc... My point is compression of 70 duro is the better way with sorb..Herbies sorbothane feet are of which duro? and are they compressed to act to their potential damping function?
 
I am interested by the wooden cone for my amp...
 
I will wait for your future posts and expertise and explanation about resonance and micro voltages....I thank you very much for your passion and time really and these many information products...We are lucky to have you here  You are an amazing guy  

Thanks @MojoAudio. Very informative. Those wooden feet, you just put them under the unit without screw or adhesive, isn't it?

richard51 said:

  thanks for your detailed response and expertise.... i will digest all that ....I dont think either  that sorbothane is the one absolute solution...But my point is this is one not costly step.... And after many experience with all duro i settle for 70 duro compressed with great benefit for my speakers and power conditioner and dac..By the way i have observe that without compression and with the wrong duro the results are mediocre or not so great. But with compression the results go on in the same direction, better imaging etc... My point is compression of 70 duro is the better way with sorb..Herbies sorbothane feet are of which duro? and are they compressed to act to their potential damping function?
 
I am interested by the wooden cone for my amp...
 
I will wait for your future posts and expertise and explanation about resonance and micro voltages....I thank you very much for your passion and time really and these many information products...We are lucky to have you here  You are an amazing guy

 

Click to expand...

 
No worries.
 
I just hate to see hard working music lovers getting ripped off by all the snake oil peddlers.
 
I've have a blog I call "Audiofiles" dedicated to shattering audiophile myths and offering high-value tips and tricks:
 
https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/
 
Yea, yea...I know Audiogon has something they call "Audio-Files" but I had the name years before them
 
I was already planning to write blogs on resonance control, USB technology myths, and the importance of power supplies.
 
You could say some my recent posts are rough drafts for blogs I was already planing on writing 
 
Two of my digital myth buster blogs I would highly recommend are these:
 
https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/the-24-bit-delusion/
 
https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/
 
Those two blogs are somewhat controversial, 180 degrees from what most companies would have you believe, and 100% supported by my many reference white papers written by well known audio recording engineers and companies that manufacture equipment used in state-of-the-art recording studios.
 
A real ear opener

lukeap69 said:

Thanks @MojoAudio. Very informative. Those wooden feet, you just put them under the unit without screw or adhesive, isn't it?

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Yea, those wooden feet are da' bomb when it comes to high-value audiophile anti-resonance cones.
 
You can face them cone up and use the the screw heads in your component's feet or vent holes to make them stable (your component can't slide off).
 
You can add a Herbie's "Grunge Buster" adhesive disk the same diameter as the wooden cones under them to improve them even more.
 
Or you can face them point down and use a 2-sided tape to hold them to the bottom of your component.
 
These $20 wooden cones were the #2 favorite over the years only beaten by one ceramic cone product that sells for about $350/set and the Stillpoints Ultra Minis that sell for $500/set.
 
You know that CC commercial:
 
Set of 4 wooden cones from eBay, $19.95.
 
Set of 4 Herbie's Grunge Busters, $10.
Look on your audiophile friends faces when it outperforms their >$500 audiophile anti-resonant product, PRICELESS

mojoaudio said:

   
No worries.
 
I just hate to see hard working music lovers getting ripped off by all the snake oil peddlers.
 
I've have a blog I call "Audiofiles" dedicated to shattering audiophile myths and offering high-value tips and tricks:
 
https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/
 
Yea, yea...I know Audiogon has something they call "Audio-Files" but I had the name years before them

 
I was already planning to write blogs on resonance control, USB technology myths, and the importance of power supplies.
 
You could say some my recent posts are rough drafts for blogs I was already planing on writing 

 
Two of my digital myth buster blogs I would highly recommend are these:
 
https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/the-24-bit-delusion/
 
https://mojoaudiofiles.wordpress.com/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/
 
Those two blogs are somewhat controversial, 180 degrees from what most companies would have you believe, and 100% supported by my many reference white papers written by well known audio recording engineers and companies that manufacture equipment used in state-of-the-art recording studios.
 
A real ear opener

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Interesting article but it has also been shown that you don't really get 16 bit you get less. So if you get less than 16 bit then you aren't getting what is purported to be the possibilities of the format. Move it higher and you might be getting 16 bit but hopefully, at least 16 bit and a little cushion is always nice. 

jamato8 said:

 
Interesting article but it has also been shown that you don't really get 16 bit you get less. So if you get less than 16 bit then you aren't getting what is purported to be the possibilities of the format. Move it higher and you might be getting 16 bit but hopefully, at least 16 bit and a little cushion is always nice. 

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Sorry to inform most of you, but the Emperor is naked
 
The noise in the power supplies of most DACs that sell for under $3K are higher than the resolution of 16-bits.
 
That means even if you play a 24-bit recording and your USB and DAC chips claim 24-bit and 192KHz resolution, that most DACs selling for under $3K have ripple/noise in the power supply that is above the voltage of the 13th bit, so it will mask all bits above that. Yes, you read that correctly.
 
Consider the sound of your favorite 24-bit song played on a high-value digital source.
 
Consider the sound of your favorite 24-bit song played on the best digital source you've ever experienced.
 
What would you say the difference in resolution would be between them?
 
Odd how both claimed 24-bit 192KHz resolution
 
So how many bits of ACTUAL resolution would you think the best high-value DACs actually have if the super DACs could have had no more than 24-bits?
 
There are a significant number of highly regarded DACs out there that claim 24-bit 192KHz (or better) resolution and actually deliver less than 12-bits from their output.
 
Actually most 16-bit recordings use less than 16-bits. They "pad" most-significant-bits under less than 8-bits of actual dynamic range (plays loud with <50db dynamic range).
 
Actually most 24-bit recordings use less than 20-bits. They "pad" most-significant-bits under less than 12-bits of actual dynamic range and add a top "pad" of zeros for the least-significant-bits (plays loud with <70db dynamic range).
 
But what does that matter....
 
Less than 5% of audiophile systems in the world are capable of playing 100db of dynamic range if there was someone foolish enough to release a recording at that level
 
Numbers sell.
 
High numbers sell more.
And specifications in the audiophile industry are like bikinis: the important things are not what the reveal, but what they cover up  

Been reading through Ben's AudioFiles...definitely not mainstream opinions (which I already knew), but a very interesting read indeed!