romaz
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Toggled off, it played at 16/44. As you know, with the DAVE, 16/44 can sound very good.
CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
- Thread starter magiccabbage
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Toggled off, it played at 16/44. As you know, with the DAVE, 16/44 can sound very good.
romaz
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It sounds like something has changed or else the truth lies somewhere in the middle but it's clear I was told by both Auralic and MQA that if the decoder resides in the music server or streamer, it will work with any DAC provided your DAC is capable of playback of the sampling rate of your file. There is the possibility that there may be several operational levels - (1) basic functionality where you get standard playback and (2) optimized functionality where you get the SQ enhancements.
brightonjel
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Yeah, this is where I think the marketing spiel gets in the way of us poor audio types trying to get our heads around things. If the goal is to just "unwrap" MQA files, allowing hi-res content to be streamed in low-res size, then this is perfectly do-able by the streamer. No problem. However, if the end device wants to also leverage the additional meta data to the full (i.e. compensate for the foibles of the recording chain) then it needs to combine that fingerprint with the one exhibited by the replay DAC itself. Now, having said that, it's perfectly possible as you say that there's a middle ground whereby the streamer can take into account any recording-chain meta-data in what it does at decode time, and rely on the final DAC being accurate enough to not further audibly degrade things. Given we are talking about DAVE then perhaps that's a reasonable assumption, and so I look forward to hearing much more from those lucky enough to be able to try it; send the same data to a cell-phone DAC, however, and it may no longer be quite so appealing to cut-out the replay DAC.
romaz
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From Bob Stuart himself:
Typical MQA file:
"The hierarchical download file that we end up with is typically 1x, which means it’s 44 or 48kHz and 24 bit. And that file, if it finds a decoder, unwraps perfectly."
If an MQA decoder isn't found:
"If you don’t have a decoder, you can play it back without a decoder because it is PCM. MQA turns PCM into PCM. When you play it back, it’ll play back on a legacy system sounding better than a CD. And it sounds better than CD because the noise floor is properly managed and the signal has been pre-apodized.
So you get great sound on legacy players, and it means that you can take the single mechanical and put it in your car, you can put it in Sonos, you can put it in iTunes, you can put it on a phone, and get better-than-CD quality."
If an MQA decoder is present:
"But when it hits the decoder, the decoder will then give you the best that the DAC can produce. So if it’s in an iPhone, for example, that can’t go faster than 48k, it’ll authenticate it and manage the DAC as best it can. On an iPad, it will play back at 96k and give you a better rendering. If the DAC can do 192, 384 or 768 kHz, it will be programmed by the maker to produce the best sound."
So basically, what Bob has said is that the typical MQA file will be backward compatible with any DAC that can play Redbook (16/44). If an MQA decoder is not present, our systems will still play it and will sound better than CD quality through MQA's proprietary techniques that result in lower noise floor and less ringing.
If an MQA decoder is present in the system, the file will be properly unwrapped and based on the decoder's knowledge of the DAC's capabilities, it will render (yes, oversample) the file to the maximum capability of the DAC. On an iPhone, that will be 48kHz, on an iPad, that will be 96kHz and on the DAVE, potentially, that will be 768 kHz.
What is the benefit of such oversampling?
"In general, higher rates sound better because when you sample at a high rate, there’s less ringing in the file and the ringing is shorter."
Generally, ringing (oscillation of the output signal) is introduced during the A/D and then the D/A process in the studio. The characteristics of the A/D recorder that initiate this ringing are embedded into the file and made known to the MQA decoder which then makes the corrections. So it would appear that with the DAVE, for optimized MQA playback, there has to be some mechanism for entering the DAVE's profile or abilities into the device that will perform the decoding (server, streamer, Roon, etc).
Here is the full excerpt of Bob's interview with Robert Harley: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/meridians-master-quality-authenticated-the-interview/
Typical MQA file:
"The hierarchical download file that we end up with is typically 1x, which means it’s 44 or 48kHz and 24 bit. And that file, if it finds a decoder, unwraps perfectly."
If an MQA decoder isn't found:
"If you don’t have a decoder, you can play it back without a decoder because it is PCM. MQA turns PCM into PCM. When you play it back, it’ll play back on a legacy system sounding better than a CD. And it sounds better than CD because the noise floor is properly managed and the signal has been pre-apodized.
So you get great sound on legacy players, and it means that you can take the single mechanical and put it in your car, you can put it in Sonos, you can put it in iTunes, you can put it on a phone, and get better-than-CD quality."
If an MQA decoder is present:
"But when it hits the decoder, the decoder will then give you the best that the DAC can produce. So if it’s in an iPhone, for example, that can’t go faster than 48k, it’ll authenticate it and manage the DAC as best it can. On an iPad, it will play back at 96k and give you a better rendering. If the DAC can do 192, 384 or 768 kHz, it will be programmed by the maker to produce the best sound."
So basically, what Bob has said is that the typical MQA file will be backward compatible with any DAC that can play Redbook (16/44). If an MQA decoder is not present, our systems will still play it and will sound better than CD quality through MQA's proprietary techniques that result in lower noise floor and less ringing.
If an MQA decoder is present in the system, the file will be properly unwrapped and based on the decoder's knowledge of the DAC's capabilities, it will render (yes, oversample) the file to the maximum capability of the DAC. On an iPhone, that will be 48kHz, on an iPad, that will be 96kHz and on the DAVE, potentially, that will be 768 kHz.
What is the benefit of such oversampling?
"In general, higher rates sound better because when you sample at a high rate, there’s less ringing in the file and the ringing is shorter."
Generally, ringing (oscillation of the output signal) is introduced during the A/D and then the D/A process in the studio. The characteristics of the A/D recorder that initiate this ringing are embedded into the file and made known to the MQA decoder which then makes the corrections. So it would appear that with the DAVE, for optimized MQA playback, there has to be some mechanism for entering the DAVE's profile or abilities into the device that will perform the decoding (server, streamer, Roon, etc).
Here is the full excerpt of Bob's interview with Robert Harley: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/meridians-master-quality-authenticated-the-interview/
Sonic77
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I listened to this Dave dac for a few hours and it is as good as everyone is saying. This is the best dac I have ever heard in my life, you have to hear it to believe it. I was skeptical about all the over the top reviews, but now I can say, believe them, this dac is special. I could tell right away this dac was different, the detail, the depth, the placement of instruments, was jaw dropping. I can't wait to hear some more tomorrow. I have Sennheiser HD 650 and listening to Dave with those was also mind blowing, I'm sure better headphones will yield even better sound. This is to other Dave dac owners, are you experiencing break in?
DaveRedRef-III
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Good to hear you are enjoying listening to Dave, Sonic77. I found burn-in to be extraordinarily long at 250 hours. That's longer than any any other kit I have tested. Then again it is better than any other kit I have tested.
lovethatsound
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Glad your enjoying it(hearing is believing)More good news for you,it just keeps getting better the longer you run it . I've been running mine in for about 2 week's now and i think it's still burning in.
DaveRedRef-III
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The thing that I experience almost every time I sit down to listen to Dave is a sense of something truly special (musically) happening. Before I bought Dave I had probably experienced a truly spine tingling special audiophile moment just two or three times in the last dozen years. I have a friend coming over to listen in the next week and whereas normally I would have a favourite 10 or so tracks to play him comfortable in the knowledge that it would impress, with Dave I could easily choose 100 such tracks. Some of those I would choose may not be particularly well recorded. A special, almost indefinable quality is almost always present with Dave and makes you feel truly privileged.................but its not good for getting work done. 
CallMeCynical
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Completely agree with your comments, DaveRedRef, regarding impact to work/productivity! Weekends are definitely something to look forward to - although the wife doesn't share my enthusiasm for swapping house chores with extended listening sessions...I haven't listened to too much hi rez music content, but I say that DAVE makes Redbook cd sound hi-rez in the sense that the soundstage seems to get broader and very 3D. It's an incredible piece of kit. Coming back to your comments about Van Morrison sounding something special with Dave, I couldn't agree more. Those albums you referenced are examples of very well recorded music. Another album, if you're into Rock, is Raconteurs (Consolers of the lonely). This sounds incredible with DAVE. If I remember correctly, this album is considerd an audiophile reference cd such is the recording quality.
Sonic77
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Good to hear you are enjoying listening to Dave, Sonic77. I found burn-in to be extraordinarily long at 250 hours. That's longer than any any other kit I have tested. Then again it is better than any other kit I have tested.
Well I guess I have more to look forward to
The thing that I experience almost every time I sit down to listen to Dave is a sense of something truly special (musically) happening. Before I bought Dave I had probably experienced a truly spine tingling special audiophile moment just two or three times in the last dozen years. I have a friend coming over to listen in the next week and whereas normally I would have a favourite 10 or so tracks to play him comfortable in the knowledge that it would impress, with Dave I could easily choose 100 such tracks. Some of those I would choose may not be particularly well recorded. A special, almost indefinable quality is almost always present with Dave and makes you feel truly privileged.................but its not good for getting work done.
My first listening session was one that I didn't want to end.
Sonic77
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I'm going to experiment by hooking up my Oppo 105 Blu Ray player thru toslink cable and watch a few music videos and snippits of movie videos thru the Dave Dac, I'll report back later what I heard.
Articnoise
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I don’t find it strange if a song that was recorded in 24/352 sound better native than a severely down sampled one, MQA or not.
With all software and DACs I have tried I have always liked native sample rate better than up and down sampled ones btw.
romaz
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Consider connecting a device like this from your Oppo to your DAVE if you have a large SACD collection. You will need to connect one of your Oppo's HDMI outputs to this device and then use your Toslink cable from this device to the DAVE. What it does is it allows you to play your SACDs through your DAVE at high resolution.
You can buy it on Ebay for about $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311307384782?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
izzard1982
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Just placed an order on a silver DAVE, feel nervous, the most expensive piece of audio equipment I have ever bought.
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