[jlbrach]

I didnt say I liked headphones more than standard loudspeakers...I have B&W 802's which i love and in the past I rarely listened to headphones but recently out of convenience and enjoyment i have been listening to the headphones more often now that the whole system is so darn good

 

[Ransom23]

Yggy can do wonders with speakers too

+1 on that. I'm absolutely loving the Yggy with my speakers. I have about 120 hours on the Yggy now.
 
I promised to report on a head-to-head of the Yggy vs the Moon 280d as well. I just spent a good 7 hours with them in A/B comparisons thanks to a dealer loan. I'll try to write something up in the next 24 hours.

 

[TubemanRQ]

I didn't notice anything like that straight out of the box either, but I suppose it is all relative to just what you are used to hearing from your previous gear. Hopefully it will match what you heard in the demo once it has more hours on it.

I'm at 92 hours since I turned mine on and hopefully I'll have some competition for it in an A/B scenario in a few more days.

 

[TubemanRQ]

I have been working a lot and quite frankly come home, sit on the couch, and would rather listen to music than type on the computer....but all I can say is, I received my Yggy mid-October. It has been running constantly, and it seems to STILL be improving, just like a fine wine or spirits.
 
The absolute utter richness, openness, holographic, engaging quality of this DAC is quite amazing. I listen via speakers, I have yet to venture into the headphone world. What has really struck me over the last couple of days is that pairing Yggy with my tweeters, from 1kHz to over 30+kHz, the enveloping soundstage, and the liquid quality of the music reminds me soooo much of my large monoblock tube amp days with the Manley Reference 350's I used to own. Also, there is such an organic and naturalness to the highs without adding harshness. It is ABSOLUTELY free of harshness, after it burns in. When it was new, it seemed a little hard, but after about 80 + hours it just blossomed, mellowed out, and continues to open up.
 
I took a break from music for about a week last week because I was jst in the mood for movies for that week or so. I then removed the TV, and sat down and listened to William Orbit's "My Oracle Lives Uptown," and WOW!!!  Then I had to listen to Jean Michelle Jarre's Oxygene, and again WOW WOW WOW....
 
As much as I know my system, I was IMPRESSED! Then I had to listen to the entire Sony Classics of E. Power Biggs playing Bach on pipe organ.
 
Yggy is an amazing DAC. One of these days, I will get Yggys for the other speakers in my two-channel fully active system, which are being handled by Gumbys...

 

[TubemanRQ]

Just an FYI, I have started a thread in the DIY section about building your own active digital crossover, multi-amp speaker system. It will take time and probably several weeks to piece-meal it together, but I hope you all enjoy it! The center piece of my system is of course the Schiit Yggdrasil along with 3 Gumbys and a D/S Gungnir.
 
Cheers!

 

[Ransom23]

Sorry for the delay gents. I wanted to have this written up last night, but the holiday season is definitely under way and our restaurant was very busy last night.
 
I finished up with my A/B of the Yggy and Moon 280 dac the other day. The shop allowed me to keep their Moon floor unit for one evening, basically at the end of their business day, and asked me to return it by noon of the following day. That being said, I spent a good 6-7 hours in an A/B comparison with it and the Yggy that day and a little the next morning to sleep on it and be sure of my conclusions. This isn't a huge amount of time to spend with the Moon, so I can't give as many details as I would if I'd had it for a week, but I'll try to speak to it's character and highlight what it does well and how it sounded different than the Yggy as well as some thoughts as to how it might affect other systems. As another disclaimer, I have no idea how many hours the Moon had on it, but given this store does a good amount of volume and is quite large, I doubt they "burn-in" any of their gear intentionally before putting it out on display given the time and attention to do so. Just a theory. The Yggy had about 110 hours on it at the time I started comparisons. Even if either unit has room to improve, I doubt very much that their respective essential character will change, even though both companies recommend about 400 hours of break-in. What I mean is, I don't expect a DAC that is known for being neutral to suddenly change into a different animal. Whatever it may do well, I expect it to improve in refinement for it's particular character with more hours logged. Alright enough of that. On to the meat and relative differences because of synergy.
 
Listening with speakers: I had my Goldenear Triton 2s paired with a Prima Luna Dialogue Integrated amp, running KT-120 tubes and Cifte 12AU7 in the preamp stage. What the heck does that mean? What I want to emphasize is that this is NOT a neutral, colorless amplifier in any sense (a point that will be relevant later when I bring up synergy). The sound is being made more rich, engaging and three dimensional by going through both tubes in the pre and output stage. The Cifte 12AU7s further enhance the imaging of the speakers. The point here is that before I hooked up the Yggy, even with my Oppo 105 on DAC duty, this system was already 3-dimensional sounding. The Yggy took that into overdrive. The Yggy's holographic effect further blurred the ability of my brain to tell, strictly through listening, how far away the speakers were from my ears. Lies never sounded so good! I don't know anyone who dislikes this effect. However, the width of the soundstage offered by the Yggy, does not go beyond the confines of my speakers much, if at all. Reviews done on the Yggy have politely called it's soundstage width, "intimate," but the real focus that jumps out at you with the Yggy is the accurate, detailed nature of the sound within that intimate soundstage. In this sense, the Yggy puts on full display the incredible amount of resolution it can pull off. I could practically cut and paste TubemanRQ's comments above, because I agree with them completely.
 
So, when changing over to the Moon 280d for listening, there was an immediate shock to the system because of how differently the presentation was. Rather than have a confusion of how far away the speakers are through cool imaging, the presentation with the 280d moves back closer toward the speakers by about 2 feet, but also moves OUT and well past the confines of the width of the speakers. This effect was very enjoyable. The focal point in listening to them is no longer the details within the sound stage as it was with the Yggy, but your brain gets confused by trying to find the edges of the sound stage. I say again, lies can sound nice to your ears and this is the 280d's party trick by comparison. Was it detailed? Of course, but this simply wasn't the main course anymore as I feel it is with the Yggy. The details are no longer under a magnifying glass in the same way as when the width of the stage is smaller. The presentation of the sound on the 280d was even more rich, as it lingered a bit longer in the air and invites you in to enjoy it. The sound is natural still, but flowed a little more compared to the Yggy. This is definitely not a boring sounding DAC!
 
I really liked the wide sound stage effect of the 280d and went back and forth between DACs quite a few times and admired the differences in presentation, but ultimately I preferred the holographic effect offered by the Yggy more and felt that the Yggy provided higher resolution overall, but, had I been using a more neutral sounding SS integrated amp instead of my tube integrated, I might have felt very differently about the coloring offered by the Moon... Some people might like the wider sound stage of the 280d more than I did and I certainly didn't think the Moon was lacking in details, but it just wasn't the distinguishing feature. I would call it more euphonic and big sounding, where the Yggy sounds more fixed in width at the speakers, but it hits you more with dimensionality toward the seating position.
 
One conclusion that I've come to from listening to increasingly better audio gear over the years is that redundancy in the signal chain is a real enjoyment killer. Case in point, it is important to note that the extent to which the Moon was coloring the sound compared to the Yggy (which is said to alter the sonic character very little) was difficult to determine because of my tube integrated amplifier in the mix, which surely was masking some of the changes the 280 was making because of it's own coloring of the sound. Potential redundancy... This is important because Simaudio is known for adding some warmth and sweetness to sound that many people enjoy and ultimately, my particular setup needed no such improvements. So really, the 280d wasn't getting the full effect on me or a fair chance to show why many people like Simaudio's products. Synergy problems like this probably, more often than not, cause many of our underwhelming audiophile experiences. Hint, Hint, more foreshadowing.
 
With headphones: I used my new LCD-X headphones, which many hold as the most neutral of the Audeze lineup. I won't argue against that. The HP amp I recently bought is a mosfet and tube hybrid called the Pathos Aurium, which pairs very well with the easy to drive LCD-X. The Pathos doesn't seem to add anything in the sense of altering the sound it's amplifying beyond a hint of some liquidity, which nicely tames higher treble a bit, while still being incredibly detailed when paired with the X. I liked this combination when I heard it with the Rega DAC when I first heard the Audeze full lineup and other reviewers have commented on the pairing of the Pathos and LCD-X as well. See links here http://www.head-fi.org/products/pathos-aurium and here http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audeze-lcd-x-headphones/
So what do you get when you pair a neutral (no color adding) DAC like the Yggy, with a neutral amp like the Pathos with the most neutral of the Audeze line? In a word, boring. I'm sorry to say it, but the sound is just flat (think 2-d) and it doesn't engage the senses at all. I think this is just a synergy nightmare with these products which are otherwise excellent, so I don't want to say more about it and give anyone the impression I'm insulting the Yggy. I love my Yggy now and she has feelings after all. I might have to buy her roses to make up for my harsh words here.

Ha! Jesting aside, I think synergy is just off with the combination of gear. Each piece with other gear sounds wonderful. So lesson learned here. There is such a thing as too much neutrality in a system, or so I know believe. I had heard people say this before when I read posts, but now I've heard it myself. If I had only heard the Yggy with my headphone gear I might have concluded it was just an over-hyped unit. Perspective is important though and this isn't in the least bit true. Fortunately it hit the ball out of the park with my speaker setup.
 
Let me propose that if you aren't as pumped to listen to music every day with your Yggy as many of the people in this thread, you may have hit a synergy problem that isn't tapping it's full potential, even if the issue isn't as pronounced as it was in my case. Hopefully that encourages more exploring of gear. As if you needed more reasons!

 
On to the Moon 280d... With the same gear, music was immediately resurrected to life and engaged me again with a comparative 3-dimensional sound. Compared to both the Yggy and the Rega DAC I noticed a greater sense of air between instruments as the soundstage got a little bigger. I won't say the 280d improved staging width as much as with speakers, but it was still noticeable and a welcome change to help the LCD-X out in this regard. Notes were also notably richer as well. Simaudio seems to have gone for a balance of rich and engaging sound that hangs there long enough to achieve that purpose, but not so long as to give up much in the way of accuracy. I think they achieved that. If you think your system needs a little warming up, but you don't want to mess with tubes, I think Simaudio offers a nice way to do that with this DAC.
 
Final Thoughts: Despite the fact that the Yggy didn't pair well with my hp amp, it delivered so much satisfaction with my speaker setup that I just can't send it back. I may pick up a used Rega Dac as a stop-gap to pair with the Pathos and LCD-X while I research/save for an amp that I consider endgame type material--something that will pair better with the Yggy. Maybe a nice Woo amp or the HP version of my Prima Luna, which adds a headphone amp the regular (I've heard it already by the way). If you have a Yggy already, you can be sure I don't think the 280d surpasses it in resolution, but, still, which of the two you may like better really depends on where the weakness/bottleneck is in your audio chain. To put this in a more positive wording, depending which piece of gear you would like to upgrade next. 

  If you made the mistake of picking up gear that is too neutral to be fun, as I did, the Moon dac will definitely show you your mistake.

 

[radicus]

The eureka moment for me was listening to Zappa's Roxy and Elsewhere, one of my desert island picks. I never particularly thought of it as an audiophile recording but the music and ambiance of the show has always appealed to me. Listening to a red book non-remastered version with Jriver through balanced ETHER's and a Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp had me drooling with anticipation of what new delights were upcoming. It reached a zenith in Echnida's Arf (of You) and Don't you Ever Wash That Thang. The zizzle of the two drummer's hi-hats and cymbals combined with the clear as a bell tonality of Ruth Underwood's xylophone virtuosity was just incredible! That gritty bassline and twangy wah lead craziness was upfront and center, not to mention one of the great trombone solos of all time. All presented as a sonic hologram. It seemed as if I were hovering around the stage listening and could cut through the layers to the finest of details.  Cleaner and more dynamic than on the vinyl systems I've heard it on over the years yet just as naturally sparkling; forceful yet effortless and with nary a trace of digital byte. Heh

 

[kazsud]

I noticed last night that while browsing online using my WA5 + YGGY that while the webpage was open i expeirenced added noise - the noise floor was considerably higher. Then when i closed the webpage the noise lessened. I am wondering how much noise the laptop in general adds to the signal. I had not noticed this before with other DACs but it is glaringly obvious with yggy.

Im also wondering if the Schiit wyrd can illiminate this noise? Is it USB noise or just the noise of my laptop? Anyone hjave any suggestions?


Paddy.

What audio player are you using?

 

[earnmyturns]

  I noticed last night that while browsing online using my WA5 + YGGY that while the webpage was open i expeirenced added noise - the noise floor was considerably higher. Then when i closed the webpage the noise lessened. I am wondering how much noise the laptop in general adds to the signal. I had not noticed this before with other DACs but it is glaringly obvious with yggy.
 
Im also wondering if the Schiit wyrd can illiminate this noise? Is it USB noise or just the noise of my laptop? Anyone hjave any suggestions?
 

I'm kind of struck by how often I read about people feeding expensive, high-quality audio chains from general purpose, multitask computers. General-purpose computers generate extremely variable HF noise as they switch between tasks. You can try to reduce noise intrusion with Wyrd or many other similar products, but IMHO the most effective solution is to have a stripped-down, single-task source server. I use a cheap CuBox-i2ex with Volumio, controllable with a Web interface or with a UPnP/DLNA control app, feeding my DAC via a Bel Canto mLink USB->S/PDIF coax insulator/reclocker (although the difference from direct USB to the DAC is slight, I just happened to get the mLink at a very good price). Volumio is a stripped-down Linux distro with just the right drivers and daemons + MPD for digital audio serving. I appreciate that this is geekier than just using your everyday Mac or PC, but it is very predictable and never gets in the way of the music, unlike a general-purpose machine trying to be a jack of all trades -- and master of none.

 

[artur9]

  I'm kind of struck by how often I read about people feeding expensive, high-quality audio chains from general purpose, multitask computers. General-purpose computers generate extremely variable HF noise as they switch between tasks. You can try to reduce noise intrusion with Wyrd or many other similar products, but IMHO the most effective solution is to have a stripped-down, single-task source server. 

I'm using a PPC iBook running Debian/MPD.  One thing I noticed a few days ago is that feeding the DAC via a UPNP stream was less noisy/smoother than playing the same files mounted for MPD via NFS.  IOW, having MPD play files retrieved via NFS was noisier than using MPD as a PlayTo/renderer target.
 
I was a bit surprised by that.  But every little thing seems to matter.

 

[earnmyturns]

  I'm using a PPC iBook running Debian/MPD.  One thing I noticed a few days ago is that feeding the DAC via a UPNP stream was less noisy/smoother than playing the same files mounted for MPD via NFS.  IOW, having MPD play files retrieved via NFS was noisier than using MPD as a PlayTo/renderer target.
 
I was a bit surprised by that.  But every little thing seems to matter.

I have a suspicion, based on what I've learned over the years about (buggy) device drivers and multitasking, that such problems might arise from race conditions between different kernel threads, which make little difference on "normal" operation but cause problems with timing-sensitive streams, such as the USB stream from your server. That is, the USB audio driver could be dropping samples or something similar when the data arrives through one path but not when it arrives through a different one, because timing, buffering, locking, and priority levels are subtly different. Also, keep in mind that not all Linux x platform combos are equally tested. PPC has always been relative Linux orphan compared with x86 and now ARM, so I would not be surprised if the USB audio drivers in your combo are buggier than (the already buggy) usual. All software sucks (speaking as part of the profession, search for "We make ****ty software").

 

[artur9]

  I have a suspicion, based on what I've learned over the years about (buggy) device drivers and multitasking, that such problems might arise from race conditions between different kernel threads, which make little difference on "normal" operation but cause problems with timing-sensitive streams, such as the USB stream from your server. .... PPC has always been relative Linux orphan compared with x86 and now ARM, so I would not be surprised if the USB audio drivers in your combo are buggier than (the already buggy) usual. 

I can see both of those points.  The iBook has been trying to make itself useful  for years so I'm pretty pleased that it's found its niche as an MPD/UPNP device.
 
I also have a Cubox/Kodi/Geexbox device.  Very nice.  Geexbox does DTS/Dolby HD better than OpenELEC, which was great otherwise.  But I didn't like that platform for music.  The sound grated for whatever reason.
 
All feeding an UberFrost.  Would love to hear any of the above using an Yggy.  Anyone willing to lend me one for a week or 3?

 

[earnmyturns]

  I also have a Cubox/Kodi/Geexbox device.  Very nice.  Geexbox does DTS/Dolby HD better than OpenELEC, which was great otherwise.  But I didn't like that platform for music.  The sound grated for whatever reason.
 
All feeding an UberFrost.  Would love to hear any of the above using an Yggy.  Anyone willing to lend me one for a week or 3?

Curious. Just listening to Barron + Holland "The Art of the Conversation" through Synology NAS FLAC 96/24 > Cubox-i2ex + Volumio 1.5 > Bel Canto mLink > Bel Canto C7R > KEF Reference 1 speakers, anything but grating; except for the lower volume, lots of similarity to what I heard live from both of the musicians (unfortunately not together). The bass pops out beautifully from behind the piano, the piano strings are lively, resonant, and the attack is sharp as it should be. No hint of harshness. Running the same digital stack through Bifrost Multibit > Asgard 2 > MrSpeakers Alpha Prime is slightly harsher around the piano midrange, but the bass pops out and separates a bit more. I suspect that the slight harshness is more attributable to the (overall very good) headphones or the amp, but I have to do a lot more experimentation. In both cases, I use UPnP/DLNA from the NAS to the Cubox, controlled with BubbleUPnP on Android. When I have a bit of time, I'll try to bypass the C7R's DAC with the Bifrost to hear the differences, and if I like what I hear, I might look into getting one of the Schiit multibits for dedicated DAC duty on the speaker setup. I also use a SoTM sMS-100 instead of the Cubox, and with the mLink buffer, I hear no difference, even though the (discontinued) sMS-100 was >4x the cost of the Cubox. 

 

[steved21]

Ransom
 
Just a couple of points to share re the Moon neo 280 which I also listened to on my search for a DAC.  
 
Re the pricing,, it's a bit more complicated that the previous poster mentioned re mark up and price.  The Moon has a few options and an upgrade card to consider.
You can add streaming and a volume control for what seems like a lot of money.  It's branded as MIND
Then they recently put out an upgrade card for the processor which retails for close to 700 CAD ( 600 is the USA). I have seen some dealers list a Neo 280 with out these features and it makes a large difference in price.
I'm in Canada where we pay more because of the current currency conversion so the price i get is sometimes quite a bit more that what you can get it for.
Even though the Moon is made in Canada these days every thing is priced in USD.
 
Re the sound,, if your considering to buy a Moon Neo 280 you owe it to your self to listen to the 380,, not the same animal.  By comparison the 280 is tighter and more steely sounding.
The 380 was lush in the bottom end and open high highs, which is typical Moon signature. Over all just a bigger sound with a jump in the quality that was obvious to hear, not a back and forth A to B to A thing.  You listen to one and then you wonder why they make the smaller one,, like,, just put your best foot forward and make it priced competitive kind of thing, it what your saying to your self.
 
Another funny thing about the 280 and 380 is you need to listen to them streaming vs usb connection.  They just don't seem to do a great job via usb but really have it together for the streaming ability.
I listend to a 380 with a brand new upgrade card just installed and not yet burned in through a Moon 230HAD via HiFI man HE560's, It was magic for me.   I listen until the store closed. 
The 230 ( headphone dac combo) seems to be an OK DAC but not a great DAC but  pretty good headphone amp.
There was something very very musical about the combo I heard.   
For me a 360 with the optional steaming module and the volume control and upgrade card at a repeat customer discount was $4800 CAD, Likely you could find it for 4,000 ish USD
I would have bought it but i don't yet want to pay for a streamer. AND the 5K price tag had me shaking a bit. After all this little trip into headphones only started when I pulled a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990's out of a closest and realized the 20 year old phones just didn't work well any more,,,,,,, Then I wen shopping and found this web site, then i bought a new pair, then another pair, then i went to a headphone meet and then,,,,,,,well you know,,,,,,I spent way too much dough,,,,,,,,I just wanted a dac.  I have a Schiit Mjolnit 2 that i use with tubes and really really like it.  I ended up buying a Yggi although might have been just as happy with a Gungnir.
Funny thing happened to me after I got it all set up,, I started listening to my speakers in my small system that my headphone gear is set up in.  I have a NAS corded to a Yggi connected via balanced connection to a Mjolnir2 as a pre amp then out to a solid state two channel to a pair of Linn Katans in my small living room.
Two weeks later I now own a pair of Opera Grand Mezza speakers with a Naim 5si on order for delivery next week.  My 4 pairs of headphones are hanging up for now. Go figure.
All that due to the Yaggi. ( to be fair another equally good DAC might have done the same thing)
I have a big rig in the basement that plays vinyl, quite nicely i might add, but now I mostly  listen to the smaller room set up.
  
Note for you,,, if i had of bought the Moon I likely would have been just as happy. AND $1600 poorer, I might add. It doesn't do what the Yggi does in resolution and detail and controlled bass, but it is so bloody musical and absolutely luscious  bass (not loose, not tubey, not coloured) just smooth smooth smooth,,, mids are very good , not stellar, and smooth high highs. 
If you listen the Moon and don't have your foot tapping you might as well watch TV and save your money, at least in my book.  Sometimes you gotta throw out all the technical details and go with what makes you move. Like I said i use a Mac air playing Audirvana and really like the set up so a streamer was an expensive option. The way that's changing right now i'm not prepared to jump in quite yet, maybe next year. Hey Schiit's are you listening?,, thats a streamer to pair with the Yggi please and thanks.  
 
Anyways those were my impressions, I listen to a really wide range of music, basic classical, piano,  simple jazz, vocal, choral, 60, 70 and 80's pop, spanish guitar, and some out right weird stuff on the  synthesizer.   Hope that helps for you.

 

[artur9]

  Anyways those were my impressions, I listen to a really wide range of music, basic classical, piano,  simple jazz, vocal, choral, 60, 70 and 80's pop, spanish guitar, and some out right weird stuff on the  synthesizer.   Hope that helps for you.

 
That sounds like me!  I find your impressions invaluable since your musical tastes seem to parallel mine.
 
IIRC, you've heard the Moon, the Yggy but not that Gumby or Bimby?