Astell&Kern AK380

Duncan · Aug 25, 2015 at 2:36 AM

Personally I'd think it bad of any company that knowingly (or even unknowingly!) changes the sound of their device via firmware update...

Imagine the scenario where a change results in a perceived worse sound, whether you've spent $50 or $50,000 on your source, if you preferred how it was before, and had no way of going back...

Hopefully A&K will release a changelog that includes what they've done for their sound enhancements, so that it is up to the end user if they want to upgrade or not...

I wonder if any manufacturer of high end gear would offer a refund if you thought their change was detrimental to the sound!?

shigzeo · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:10 AM

raypin said:
mmm....phenomenal, yes, even if played alone. Put another way, it is currently the world's best-sounding digital audio player (in the portable category). Nothing can touch it.

It's balanced output is very poor though unless connected to an outboard amp. It cannot drive low-ohm earphones or headphones that well. Balance a pair of ES7 (audio technica) and watch volumes past 90 distort with massive IMD spikes that are unfairly audible for an 'ultimate' device. Singe-ended, it performs very well, but not perfectly. When putting signal into an amp, it can't be touched. Its performance is nearly flawless.

piercer · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:13 AM

shigzeo said:
It's balanced output is very poor though unless connected to an outboard amp. It cannot drive low-ohm earphones or headphones that well. Balance a pair of ES7 (audio technica) and watch volumes past 90 distort with massive IMD spikes that are unfairly audible for an 'ultimate' device. Singe-ended, it performs very well, but not perfectly. When putting signal into an amp, it can't be touched. Its performance is nearly flawless.

What are IMD spikes? I use the balanced output all the time and find it to be superb (SE846 and JH Audio Angie). I thought these were low impedance. Sometimes I have the volume at 90 (very loud) and hear no distortion. Please explain further.

n99127 · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:15 AM

piercer said:
What are IMD spikes? I use the balanced output all the time and find it to be superb (SE846 and JH Audio Angie). I thought these were low impedance. Sometimes I have the volume at 90 (very loud) and hear no distortion. Please explain further.

I think IMD means intermodulation distortion. I could be wrong though.

piercer · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:19 AM

shigzeo said:
It's balanced output is very poor though unless connected to an outboard amp. It cannot drive low-ohm earphones or headphones that well. Balance a pair of ES7 (audio technica) and watch volumes past 90 distort with massive IMD spikes that are unfairly audible for an 'ultimate' device. Singe-ended, it performs very well, but not perfectly. When putting signal into an amp, it can't be touched. Its performance is nearly flawless.

Sorry - just noticed this too - do you mean high impedance earphones? My SE846's are 9 ohms and sound great, and my Angies are 17 ohms and sound great. The ES7's are 37 ohms.

If you drive any form of speaker system to high levels how can you tell if its the speaker distorting or an electronic distortion?

shigzeo · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:26 AM

n99127 said:
I think IMD means intermodulation distortion. I could be wrong though.

Yes. My terminology was poor.

piercer said:
Sorry - just noticed this too - do you mean high impedance earphones? My SE846's are 9 ohms and sound great, and my Angies are 17 ohms and sound great. The ES7's are 37 ohms.

If you drive any form of speaker system to high levels how can you tell if its the speaker distorting or an electronic distortion?

The SE846 do sound great, but they induce numerous aberrations from the AK380 at all volume levels. When connected to the AK380 via a balanced cable, those aberrations are worse. As to your second question, I'm a test-tone junkie. If I hear distortion or tearing in certain portions of test tones, I know something is wrong. Then I test output with square waves, RMAA, and with oscillators to measure for noise. I also listen to the thing!

DeepGroove · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:34 AM

Interesting, shigzeo were these aberrations also present on the AK240?

shigzeo · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:48 AM

deepgroove said:
Interesting, shigzeo were these aberrations also present on the AK240?

I didn't test the AK240 as rigourously, but I can say that the AK380 is far and away better in general than the AK240.

shigzeo · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:48 AM

deepgroove said:
Interesting, shigzeo were these aberrations also present on the AK240?

And I will publish my review of the AK380 next week and some of the results of my tests hopefully this week.

n99127 · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:55 AM

Is 90 really that loud though? I thought the AK380 volume scale goes up to 150.

piercer · Aug 25, 2015 at 3:56 AM

shigzeo said:
Yes. My terminology was poor.

The SE846 do sound great, but they induce numerous aberrations from the AK380 at all volume levels. When connected to the AK380 via a balanced cable, those aberrations are worse. As to your second question, I'm a test-tone junkie. If I hear distortion or tearing in certain portions of test tones, I know something is wrong. Then I test output with square waves, RMAA, and with oscillators to measure for noise. I also listen to the thing!

Wow, this is seriously interesting :-)

So, even though they sound great they have 'aberrations' which are worse when the balanced output is used. I am looking forward to your review. Have you done these tests on other kit? I would love to read more...

goodvibes · Aug 25, 2015 at 4:14 AM

I believe Shigzeo is referring to the extremely low impedance of the Shure and the output impedance of a device doubling when in balanced mode. I was flabbergasted when shure introduced a new flagship with that low of an impedance. Shure is high volume enough to get custom drivers.

shigzeo · Aug 25, 2015 at 4:34 AM

n99127 said:
Is 90 really that loud though? I thought the AK380 volume scale goes up to 150.

I listen to volumes of up to 50 comfortably, but I know a few people that listen to volumes double what I do with the same earphones. At those volumes, the AK380 is up against a wall of aberration wall in balanced mode, and depending on the impedance of the earphone, it is possibly not able to surpass the limits of redbook audio, putting it hard up against walls that making hi-definition audio an academic enjoyment at best.

Again: when not running load, it blows the doors off, performing phenomenally. But under load, it isn't a great performer considering its claims to ultimate performance.

shigzeo · Aug 25, 2015 at 4:40 AM

goodvibes said:
I believe Shigzeo is referring to the extremely low impedance of the Shure and the output impedance of a device doubling when in balanced mode. I was flabbergasted when shure introduced a new flagship with that low of an impedance. Shure is high volume enough to get custom drivers.

And I must agree with you. Several years ago, or maybe even when I was active at TouchMyApps, I complained hard about earphone companies still making earphones that swing down to impedances of less than 20Ω. All modern DAPs supply enough current to keep voltage/volume levels steady even when the resistance is very high. And most of them can keep voltages stable even when an earphone swings down to 10Ω. But few, if any, remain stable when an earphone swings lower than that.

Why in God's name do Shure build an earphone that swings as low as the SE846? I think the same thing should be said of any earphone that doesn't average mean load of 60Ω.

speedracer1 · Aug 25, 2015 at 8:22 PM

louisarmstrong said:
Portability is about the ONLY thing about the AK380 that can be boasted, as they can claim they are the best sounding portable solution (although they may very well not be). Used in a desktop setup, the AK380 can immediately go straight to the "overpriced junk" category as there are so many better DACs at a similar or even lower price than the AK380 - and that's why I find that using it with the Woo amplifier not very impressing, to say the least.

Louis,

Wow harsh words! This could be an apples to oranges comparison but please provide us with a list of" DAC's at a similar or even lower price than the AK380" that you personally own that you feel sound better in the desktop space?

-Speed

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