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Are external DACs unnecessary? Is a computer just as accurate?
Mar 9, 2015 at 2:49 PM Post #16 of 129
Mar 9, 2015 at 3:15 PM Post #18 of 129
music alchemist said:
I hear no difference with or without it. Why would I keep it?

There is nothing worse than having a dedicated device that does nothing to improve sound quality. As an audiophile, it just doesn't make sense. :p

If I upgrade my computer, it would be superior in every way anyway.

And I can always get more DACs in the future. I intend on comparing expensive and cheap ones someday.


It may not reproduce the data perfectly, but if it is audibly transparent, then it reproduces the audio perfectly.
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I don't get it, why do you bother making a thread when you already have your mind set on what to do with your equipment/money?

stay with your laptop's soundcard then

/thread
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 4:22 PM Post #20 of 129
music alchemist said:
   
This thread is about whether external DACs are capable of sounding better than a good computer, not just my situation.
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They're capable of spec-ing better than a good computer. Sounding is another matter. A while ago I did a little experiment: I recorded playback from the following chain:
PC line-out -> Schiit Magni -> PC line-in
 
So I've got not only a DAC but an amp in the signal chain. Here are the spectrograms of the original, resulting, and difference files:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmVtb5IwniEem1LR3RMQndyRG8/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmVtb5IwniEYllpSnRpNjRTVlk/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmVtb5IwniETGYwci1fU3F0THM/view?usp=sharing
 
Pretty good, and I'd say if any part is the weakest link it's probably the ADC.
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 7:35 PM Post #21 of 129
music alchemist said:
   
Do you know how the DAC in my Alienware M11x R2 compares to Macs? Considering that I don't hear a difference between my external DAC and just listening from my laptop's headphone jack, I'm assuming my computer is more than good enough.
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I think you're right. Once something reaches the ability to produce better sound than our ears can hear, then everything should sound the same. If it doesn't there is probably something wrong with it.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 9:12 AM Post #22 of 129
bigshot said:
Audibly transparent is specs that exceed the thresholds of human hearing. If a player is audibly transparent, you could plug in the best headphones in the world and it would be exactly the same sound as any other player that is audibly transparent, even if the specs are better on one than the other.
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Minus the emphasis on specs, that's pretty much what I said in the part of my post that you didn't quote. Two pieces of audibly transparent gear will sound the same using the best headphones out there (a lot more gear will sound the same as your headphones get worse).

Why the emphasis on specs though? Do you honestly have a complete, logically sufficient list of specs to check?

I have nothing against measurement in general, but I see a lot of idiocy in the name of "specs"--people trumpeting a few published measurements of X piece of equipment, not realizing they're taking an incomplete picture as the final word. Throwing out one or two numbers below the audible threshold doesnt imply that all the other measurements you could take are just as good.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 9:53 AM Post #23 of 129
music alchemist said:
  The general consensus in Sound Science is that any properly-designed DAC (even the cheap ones in computers) will reproduce audio perfectly. I am considering selling my audio gear to fund an entry-level electrostatic system. My existing headphones sound fine directly out of my laptop's (Alienware M11x R2) headphone jacks, except the piezoelectric ones, which require a ton of power. So when I get the electrostatic headphones and electrostatic headphone amp, would there be no improvement in sound quality by using an external DAC as opposed to connecting the amp to my computer with the right cables? (I may sell my external DAC either way.)
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An entry-level stat system is a 50 € electret or a 100 € regular stat + a 20 € vintage speaker amp, all second-hand. Not quite something you need to sell all your gear for.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 1:17 PM Post #24 of 129
Apparently, the Alienware M11x R2 uses a Realtek ALC665 HDA codec. While there are Realtek chips with better specs than this one, it is probably good enough if well implemented. The most common issues with onboard audio are bad headphone outputs, and noise (interference). If you do not hear any noise while nothing is playing (or only a sample with some inaudibly quiet noise, to prevent any auto-muting of the audio output), even during system activity like moving windows, scrolling, etc., then the line output could very well be fine. You may also run RMAA to test the DAC, although if you use the onboard ADC, then probably that will be the limiting factor.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 4:29 PM Post #26 of 129
music alchemist said:
Yeah, I don't really hear a difference between plugging into my laptop's headphone jack and using my Schiit stack (Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2) with all of my headphones except for the piezoelectric ones, which barely get loud enough even on maximum volume from my amp. So I guess I may not need to keep my DAC, even once I get the electrostatic headphones and amp...though I'm still interested in trying out various DACs just to make sure.
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If you do not hear any difference why do you keep those schiits? Got a passion for cable clutter? :)

The MB sounchips are quite good nowadays. The realtek 88x chips are pretty solid and the 1150 should be better than most low level DACs
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 4:32 PM Post #27 of 129
prot said:
If you do not hear any difference why do you keep those schiits? Got a passion for cable clutter?
smily_headphones1.gif


The MB sounchips are quite good nowadays. The realtek 88x chips are pretty solid and the 1150 should be better than most low level DACs
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Read the first post. I am selling my audio gear to fund an electrostatic system.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 10:21 PM Post #28 of 129

I'm happy with my Realtek HD audio built into my ultrabook.  Mac people seem happy with any Mac model.  You don't have to go far to find Realtek HD it's in most higher end ultrabook laptops from the last 2 years.  To make it into a line out just get a splitter 3.5-to-RCA cable for $3 from monoprice. 
 
Mar 11, 2015 at 5:42 PM Post #29 of 129
Correction: I do hear a difference between the amp/DAC and my laptop's headphone jacks. (I spoke too soon and only tested a few songs before, but have compared with more music now.) However, I don't know if it was due to the amp, or DAC, or both. Wasn't able to isolate the variables. Doesn't matter for now, since I sold them. ^_^
 
I guess once I get the new system and a new DAC after that, I'll try comparing with and without the DAC more extensively.
 
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