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New Audeze "Prototype-Z"!

Oct 22, 2014 at 11:39 AM Post #136 of 455
An amp transfers max power to a load equal to it's output resistance. To calculate the volume of a headphone, you need to know impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is given best in some db / 1mW. For each 3 dB increase in volume, you double the power needed. So if sensitivity is 106 db / 1 mW, then to get 109 dB, you need 2 mW. To get 121 dB, you need 32 mW. To calculate how much power an amp can deliver to your headphones, use the power relationship Power = V^2 / R. If an amp can do 1 W into 32 ohms, then it can do 27 mW into 1200 ohms, which would be about 120 dB. (The voltage is the same for both cases, so solve for V and divide by whatever your impedance is. So at 106 dB / 1 mW, the LCD-Z's are actually quite easy to drive!
 
The impedance is indeed very high because of the high number/density of traces, and the sensitivity comes from the fact that there is so much more surface area for the magnets to affect, that you get a much more efficient transfer of energy.
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 12:50 PM Post #137 of 455
jodgey4 said:
  An amp transfers max power to a load equal to it's output resistance. To calculate the volume of a headphone, you need to know impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is given best in some db / 1mW. For each 3 dB increase in volume, you double the power needed. So if sensitivity is 106 db / 1 mW, then to get 109 dB, you need 2 mW. To get 121 dB, you need 32 mW. To calculate how much power an amp can deliver to your headphones, use the power relationship Power = V^2 / R. If an amp can do 1 W into 32 ohms, then it can do 27 mW into 1200 ohms, which would be about 120 dB. (The voltage is the same for both cases, so solve for V and divide by whatever your impedance is. So at 106 dB / 1 mW, the LCD-Z's are actually quite easy to drive!
 
The impedance is indeed very high because of the high number/density of traces, and the sensitivity comes from the fact that there is so much more surface area for the magnets to affect, that you get a much more efficient transfer of energy.
Click to expand...

that was well put. A mouthful 
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 2:30 PM Post #138 of 455
jodgey4 said:
  An amp transfers max power to a load equal to it's output resistance. To calculate the volume of a headphone, you need to know impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is given best in some db / 1mW. For each 3 dB increase in volume, you double the power needed. So if sensitivity is 106 db / 1 mW, then to get 109 dB, you need 2 mW. To get 121 dB, you need 32 mW. To calculate how much power an amp can deliver to your headphones, use the power relationship Power = V^2 / R. If an amp can do 1 W into 32 ohms, then it can do 27 mW into 1200 ohms, which would be about 120 dB. (The voltage is the same for both cases, so solve for V and divide by whatever your impedance is. So at 106 dB / 1 mW, the LCD-Z's are actually quite easy to drive!
 
The impedance is indeed very high because of the high number/density of traces, and the sensitivity comes from the fact that there is so much more surface area for the magnets to affect, that you get a much more efficient transfer of energy.
Click to expand...

 
What would this make the LCD-Z better at then say the LCD-3?  I though having a very thin diaphragm was a key to getting the best speed/response out of the planar design.  If the tracings were made thicker than normal to increase impedance in order to make the headphone easier to drive, wouldn't that negatively affect the performance?  What's the physical benefit of making a high impedance planar magnetic headphone?
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 2:43 PM Post #139 of 455
Good point. Maybe it is a trade off. What is sonically better, to have a lighter diafragm but have the amp handle a more difficult load (lower impedance, more amp distortion)? Or vice versa, heavier diafragm being pushed more linearly by the amp?
Maybe that is what they are testing right now. 
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 2:49 PM Post #140 of 455
To quote an article from Tyll - "Like an electrostatic driver, the diaphragm of a planar magnetic speaker is a thin sheet of flexible transparent film, but unlike an electrostat, the film has very thin, flat electrical conductors (wires ... but very flat ones) in it." http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphone-drivers-work
 
But Audeze seems to focus tons on material science, so I almost wouldn't be surprised if they also had a new generation of even thinner drivers or traces in this (though it probably would've been mentioned), thus mitigating the effect.
 
The physical benefit of having more traces (and this is just me spitting out ideas), would be that the magnetic field can be picked up more easily and more evenly across the membrane. This would make it possibly more responsive to micro-changes in the field, and lower distortion as the membrane is moving all together. Think of the stability that occurs on an air hockey table when you add more holes for air to come up, the puck glides much more easily and evenly, as the air force is being applied to the puck more evenly to keep it flatter across the table.
 
Now, considering that the magnets haven't been mentioned to be new, I wonder how that'll play through. In most planar headphones, you have just a few discrete bars applying the force, so there might actually be some benefit to a non-uniform trace pattern (which I guess also hasn't been precluded from the Z's design, more doesn't have to necessarily mean more even). Again... all just what's running through my head. I'm sure someone out there will read this eventually and laugh
tongue_smile.gif
.
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 2:52 PM Post #141 of 455
Another good point. What if they found a new material that is both lighter than the LCD-3 while also being conductor in a circuit trace therefore increasing the impedance? Best of both worlds.
Let's wait and see.
 
Oct 22, 2014 at 3:55 PM Post #142 of 455
matias said:
  Another good point. What if they found a new material that is both lighter than the LCD-3 while also being conductor in a circuit trace therefore increasing the impedance? Best of both worlds.
Let's wait and see.
Click to expand...

thinking graphene is the ultimate planar driver material given its ridiculous strength to weight ratio and the fact it is conductive and perfectly flexible without stretch.
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 7:31 AM Post #146 of 455
groovyd said:
thinking graphene is the ultimate planar driver material given its ridiculous strength to weight ratio and the fact it is conductive and perfectly flexible without stretch.
Click to expand...
Students at MIT and other Ivy League schools made electrostatic headphones using graphene diaphragms. Not sure how it sounds, but I imagine being just a few microns thinner than modern STAX headphones wouldn't make an audible difference. Perhaps it might make a difference in bass response though due to the strength?

Edit: The SR-009 is 2 microns, I think those headphones were either 1 of 2.
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 1:55 PM Post #147 of 455
jodgey4 said:
An amp transfers max power to a load equal to it's output resistance. To calculate the volume of a headphone, you need to know impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is given best in some db / 1mW. For each 3 dB increase in volume, you double the power needed. So if sensitivity is 106 db / 1 mW, then to get 109 dB, you need 2 mW. To get 121 dB, you need 32 mW. To calculate how much power an amp can deliver to your headphones, use the power relationship Power = V^2 / R. If an amp can do 1 W into 32 ohms, then it can do 27 mW into 1200 ohms, which would be about 120 dB. (The voltage is the same for both cases, so solve for V and divide by whatever your impedance is. So at 106 dB / 1 mW, the LCD-Z's are actually quite easy to drive!

The impedance is indeed very high because of the high number/density of traces, and the sensitivity comes from the fact that there is so much more surface area for the magnets to affect, that you get a much more efficient transfer of energy.
Click to expand...


So essentially we get very little overhead for power output with a decent amp?
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 4:23 PM Post #148 of 455
Hi everyone, here's an overview of Audeze point of view on the Prototype-Z. First and foremost, we should have been clearer; the Prototype-X is not scheduled for production. At this time. In the spirit of the “old” Audeze where running changes were made without fanfare, and in a constant pursuit of best sound, we designed the experimental Prototype-Z.
 
The rationale is that some tube amp designers now make OTL headphone amps to get away from the limitations of output transformers that have to pass low-level audio signals without loss. Bass frequencies need a big, heavy core with lots of turns. But more turns restricts higher frequencies so the designer has to resort to complicated winding techniques. There are other problems such as hysteresis that must be dealt with.
 
But the typically high impedance of OTL amps makes driving the Prototype-Z (or the high impedance 600 ohm Beyers) easy. Not so easy with speakers due to the dramatic impedance difference. We suggest that if you’re not familiar with the David Berning ZOTL design check out his site and the Milbert Guitar Artist Amp. We think they’re amazing!
 
There are a number of OTL headphone amps on the market to choose from right now: Schiit Audio Valhalla Single-Ended OTL, Hartung, Woo WA3, LAFIGARO 339, and the Antique Soundlab MG Head DT OTL 32 to name a few.
 
Solid-state amplifier designers aren’t much interested in high impedance designs, but that doesn’t mean they can’t build a solid-state amp that puts out tons of current and voltage. For example the Burson Solosit headphone amp had zero trouble driving the Prototype-Z at a volume control setting almost the same as when driving an LCD-X.
 
Apologies to the group for not coming up with this sooner; interesting thread.
 
Thanks,
Audeze
 
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Oct 23, 2014 at 4:31 PM Post #149 of 455
audeze said:
  Hi everyone, here's an overview of Audeze point of view on the Prototype-Z. First and foremost, we should have been clearer; the Prototype-X is not scheduled for production. At this time. In the spirit of the “old” Audeze where running changes were made without fanfare, and in a constant pursuit of best sound, we designed the experimental Prototype-Z.
 
The rationale is that some tube amp designers now make OTL headphone amps to get away from the limitations of output transformers that have to pass low-level audio signals without loss. Bass frequencies need a big, heavy core with lots of turns. But more turns restricts higher frequencies so the designer has to resort to complicated winding techniques. There are other problems such as hysteresis that must be dealt with.
 
But the typically high impedance of OTL amps makes driving the Prototype-Z (or the high impedance 600 ohm Beyers) easy. Not so easy with speakers due to the dramatic impedance difference. We suggest that if you’re not familiar with the David Berning ZOTL design check out his site and the Milbert Guitar Artist Amp. We think they’re amazing!
 
There are a number of OTL headphone amps on the market to choose from right now: Schiit Audio Valhalla Single-Ended OTL, Hartung, Woo WA3, LAFIGARO 339, and the Antique Soundlab MG Head DT OTL 32 to name a few.
 
Solid-state amplifier designers aren’t much interested in high impedance designs, but that doesn’t mean they can’t build a solid-state amp that puts out tons of current and voltage. For example the Burson Solosit headphone amp had zero trouble driving the Prototype-Z at a volume control setting almost the same as when driving an LCD-X.
 
Apologies to the group for not coming up with this sooner; interesting thread.
 
Thanks,
Audeze
Click to expand...

 
 
Could you perhaps comment about the new headband?  Would this become available as a retro-fit to the existing models?
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM Post #150 of 455
audeze said:
  Hi everyone, here's an overview of Audeze point of view on the Prototype-Z. First and foremost, we should have been clearer; the Prototype-X is not scheduled for production. At this time. In the spirit of the “old” Audeze where running changes were made without fanfare, and in a constant pursuit of best sound, we designed the experimental Prototype-Z.
 
The rationale is that some tube amp designers now make OTL headphone amps to get away from the limitations of output transformers that have to pass low-level audio signals without loss. Bass frequencies need a big, heavy core with lots of turns. But more turns restricts higher frequencies so the designer has to resort to complicated winding techniques. There are other problems such as hysteresis that must be dealt with.
 
But the typically high impedance of OTL amps makes driving the Prototype-Z (or the high impedance 600 ohm Beyers) easy. Not so easy with speakers due to the dramatic impedance difference. We suggest that if you’re not familiar with the David Berning ZOTL design check out his site and the Milbert Guitar Artist Amp. We think they’re amazing!
 
There are a number of OTL headphone amps on the market to choose from right now: Schiit Audio Valhalla Single-Ended OTL, Hartung, Woo WA3, LAFIGARO 339, and the Antique Soundlab MG Head DT OTL 32 to name a few.
 
Solid-state amplifier designers aren’t much interested in high impedance designs, but that doesn’t mean they can’t build a solid-state amp that puts out tons of current and voltage. For example the Burson Solosit headphone amp had zero trouble driving the Prototype-Z at a volume control setting almost the same as when driving an LCD-X.
 
Apologies to the group for not coming up with this sooner; interesting thread.
 
Thanks,
Audeze
Click to expand...

 
 
fortitude said:
   
 
Could you perhaps comment about the new headband?  Would this become available as a retro-fit to the existing models?
Click to expand...

 
I second this. I would be very interested in replacing the headband on my Xs with a suspension-style one. Any chance we could see these headbands available before the new year?
 
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