Hi everyone. I somewhat randomly came across this place and it looks awesome - looking forward to learning from everyone and hopefully being able to help some folks as well.
 
I was hoping I could get some help/advice determining how to properly articulate the sound I'm looking for, as well as choosing some headphones (and loudspeakers if anyone has any suggestions) that best fit that sound.
 
Here's some info about the sound I want to achieve:
 
Mids/Highs - I prefer very strong mids/highs (I think). For example, if I'm listening to music, I love it when I can locate individual instruments and follow them through a song.
 
Bass - This is probably the kicker...I don't like bass just for the sake of having it. I prefer very "tight" bass, i.e. it's extremely clear and doesn't blow out my headphones/speakers. The best way I know to explain it is that if I had a custom soundsystem in my car, I'd rather have 2x8" subs rather than a 10" or a 12". Does that make any sense?
 
I listen to all kinds of music but here are the bands I've listened to the most recently:
 
Radiohead
Ray Charles
Tosca (Electronic/Lounge)
Explosions in the Sky (Cinematic/Instrumental)
Arcade Fire
Fatboy Slim
 
Also, and I think this might help...I recently purchased a pair of AudioEngine speakers (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Powered-Speaker-Systems/A2-plus-W-Powered-Desktop-Speakers) for my computer and was absolutely blown away by the quality of sound. I was able to hear new sounds/layers in songs I've listened to hundreds of times. Is there a way to look at the "sound wave graph" of these speakers and find a pair of headphones with a similar graph? Or, would that be silly to do?
 
Thanks ahead of time!

jackaroe said:

  Hi everyone. I somewhat randomly came across this place and it looks awesome - looking forward to learning from everyone and hopefully being able to help some folks as well.

Click to expand...

 
Hi jackaroe!  Welcome to Head-Fi.    Sorry about your wallet. 
 

jackaroe said:

 
I was hoping I could get some help/advice determining how to properly articulate the sound I'm looking for, as well as choosing some headphones (and loudspeakers if anyone has any suggestions) that best fit that sound.
 
Here's some info about the sound I want to achieve:
 
Mids/Highs - I prefer very strong mids/highs (I think). For example, if I'm listening to music, I love it when I can locate individual instruments and follow them through a song.
 
Bass - This is probably the kicker...I don't like bass just for the sake of having it. I prefer very "tight" bass, i.e. it's extremely clear and doesn't blow out my headphones/speakers. The best way I know to explain it is that if I had a custom soundsystem in my car, I'd rather have 2x8" subs rather than a 10" or a 12". Does that make any sense?

Click to expand...

 
Okay, here's what you are looking for.  Basically, you want an analytical signature that leans neutral-bright with fast bass response, prominent mids, extended highs, and with a heavy preference given to detail, staging and imaging.
 
Basically, you want this:  http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
 

jackaroe said:

  Is there a way to look at the "sound wave graph" of these speakers and find a pair of headphones with a similar graph? Or, would that be silly to do?

Click to expand...

 
I would seriously avoid placing complete trust in graphs before you've (a) learned how to interpret them, and more importantly (b) correlated what you see in graphs to what you hear in reality.  Graphs aren't bad.  But like any data, interpretation is key.

jackaroe said:

The best way I know to explain it is that if I had a custom soundsystem in my car, I'd rather have 2x8" subs rather than a 10" or a 12". Does that make any sense?

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That doesn't make sense because size does not determine bass quality in the way that you are thinking when it comes to subs (see item 6), but I know what you mean about the type of headphones you are looking for

Some questions you need to answer:

What is your overall budget for headphones? For instance, I'd recommend the Soundmagic HP150s for around $200, but it really depends on how much money you have to spend.

Also, what kind of devices will you use your headphones with? (make/model) Some headphones work better with some devices.

Are the headphones for home use? Portable use? If at home, do you need isolation?

What you're looking for in a sound might cause fatigue.
 
Gradio 80i's come to mind
 
Very precise on mids, some might argue to a fault. Good highs and decent bass (nothing overpowering.) You can plug them into anything and they will sound good. The only issue is they are on ear which some people dislike. They also lack soundstage, instead give you a really in your face sound that some people really like
 

jackaroe said:

 
Mids/Highs - I prefer very strong mids/highs (I think). For example, if I'm listening to music, I love it when I can locate individual instruments and follow them through a song.
 
Bass - This is probably the kicker...I don't like bass just for the sake of having it. I prefer very "tight" bass, i.e. it's extremely clear and doesn't blow out my headphones/speakers. The best way I know to explain it is that if I had a custom soundsystem in my car, I'd rather have 2x8" subs rather than a 10" or a 12". Does that make any sense?

Click to expand...

 
Actually you can still have two 8in or even just one 8in sub and the bass can still sound "wrong" vs two 12inchers - what matters more in order to produce that tight "kick" in a car are:

1) Box design. A box that isn't to spec for a flat response from the sub will always result in muddy bass, or too tight bass that has too much kick and no extension that it is basically rendered next to useless if you lower the crossover cutoff but too easy to localize at higher crossover settings (no band plays in front with the bass drum behind the audience, right?). If anything, the reason why you are more likely to see one 8in or 10in vs two 12in is because of space constraints and how much bass one subwoofer can actually produce (which is a lot - I easily got 101dB off my SQ sub before), but of course that hasn't stopped IASCA Champ Scott Buwalda from mounting three 12in subwoofers in his Altima.
 
Personally I think he did it more for the aesthetics, since he used three 2ch amps on his front stage three more of the same amps make for that clean, symmetrical amp rack

 
 
2) Time Alignment. The main problem in a car is that the tweeters, midwoofers/midrange and subwoofer are all over the place. You don't sit between two speaker cabinets in a car - you sit with the driver side tweeter/midrange, driver side midwoofer, passenger side tweeter/midrange, passenger side midwoofer, and subwoofer at varying distance from your ears, from closest to farthest (unless you mount the sub on the dashboard, like in some show cars or serious EMMA/IASCA competition cars). Add to that other acoustic issues like how tweeter/midrange mounting angles especially when mounted at dash level can mean a lot of reflections off the windshield that can make the near side units seem more forward, or interior materials muffling the sub at certain frequencies. With your preferred bass characteristic in particular, loose bass in car can still be possible even with a proper box because you hear the upper frequencies of the note off the midwoofers before the lower frequencies of the same note coming from the sub can be heard. What you hear essentially is a rather hollow-sounding "thump" followed by woolly bass, but once you have a time alignment processor set-up, you not only get a stronger "THUMP!" but that your ears will also locate it coming from somewhere in front, despite the sub being 1.2m behind you.
 
----
 
Now, back to headphones. What you are looking for essentially is a neutral headphone with a strong amplifier that won't run out of steam when the bass notes kick in. "Strong" midrange and treble can mean listening fatigue by the way, it's just that others counteract that with a "warm" sound that sounds like honey in the midrange and treble and doesn't need a lot of volume to make the bass audible (if not bass that sounds like molasses, in some cases). Look up reviews of the HD600 (or K702) driven by the NFB-11 (among other amplifiers), which also has a preamp that can put the volume control for your Audioengine speakers nearer within arm's reach.
 
 

jackaroe said:

 
Also, and I think this might help...I recently purchased a pair of AudioEngine speakers (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Powered-Speaker-Systems/A2-plus-W-Powered-Desktop-Speakers) for my computer and was absolutely blown away by the quality of sound. I was able to hear new sounds/layers in songs I've listened to hundreds of times. Is there a way to look at the "sound wave graph" of these speakers and find a pair of headphones with a similar graph? Or, would that be silly to do?
 

Click to expand...

 
The problem with using response graphs is that the methodology is not perfect and is hard to replicate properly. First, speaker response graphs are taken in a room with proper acoustic treatment, meaning your room could be coloring the sound, and ergo what you hear and "like" might not be the same as the response graph from the manufacturer or professional reviewers. Second, headphone measurements aren't actually done properly in terms of replicating how wearing it affects the sound. Many just hang them with a mic in the center, but in a lot of headphones the manner of how one wears them will affect the sound because the relative position of the ear canal opening to the drivers aren't the same as where the microphone was.
 
All that measures is the driver's response by itself, but not measuring how its equivalent of "room modes" (let's call it "fit on the head mode") affects the sound, considering that when actually wearing one the earpads enclose the driver's front towards the ear canals with bone and flesh between it and the eardrums, which is not the same as a mic with a lot of air between it and the drivers. Just wearing some headphones a lot tighter or using an earpad with very different properties (effective thicknes as worn, density, in some cases also shape as they angle the drivers to simulate speaker toe-in) can affect the bass and treble a lot for example. In theory, one should mount the microphone inside a ballistic dummy head (preferably built around a real skull) with simulated ear canals, but AFAIK nobody has done that yet. Add to that how some amps can't handle some headphones with certain impedance ranges, and you have people laying out a blanket statement that those response graphs are absolutely useless because Headphone A only looks like it should sound similar to Headphone B (in some cases, I've listened to both on a really good amp that won't struggle with either, and they actually do sound similar tonally, with one headphone having a more precise and wider soundstage) instead of taking into account this seemingly small (but still important) issue with the methodology.

 
Mids/Highs - I prefer very strong mids/highs (I think). For example, if I'm listening to music, I love it when I can locate individual instruments and follow them through a song.
 
Bass - This is probably the kicker...I don't like bass just for the sake of having it. I prefer very "tight" bass, i.e. it's extremely clear and doesn't blow out my headphones/speakers. The best way I know to explain it is that if I had a custom soundsystem in my car, I'd rather have 2x8" subs rather than a 10" or a 12". Does that make any sense?

Click to expand...

 
another suggestion:  AKG K712 Pro (if you can handle the price of the headphones and amp)

souhikyaku9 said:

   
another suggestion:  AKG K712 Pro (if you can handle the price of the headphones and amp)

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Yep. I have a pair of AKG K702's and they do what the OP is asking for. I can only imagine that the K712's are even better. But with the AKG K series, a decent amp will immediately be a necessity.
Grado's would also probably do it. I own an old pair of original SR-80's, but the comfort sure isn't at the level of the AKG's.