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Creative Sound blaster E5 - Headphone amp + USB DAC with OTG + Toslink + aptX + recording + more.
Jan 25, 2015 at 3:18 PM Post #481 of 2,345
Originally Posted by dacari /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Thank you ClieOS.
 
My concern is not exactly the imbalance but have too much volume that makes difficult to make micro adjustements/accuracy with sensitive iems, in other words or silence or too loud. I think E3 suffers this problem, if you use it under windows then you can adjust the system volume but if you are using it "alone" you won't have this extra adjustement.
Click to expand...


E3 suffers from this problem and is one of the main reasons why the E3 is terrible. Who designs a small and portable USB DAC/Amp with bluetooth support that doesn't work with IEMs. It's also unusable with a computer for the same reason because at 5% in Windows it is still way too loud with IEMs.
 
Originally Posted by paulguru /img/forum/go_quote.gif
in fact should not you to say it
 
Creative or some reviews should release these values.
But this is how dont releasing the power of a cars engine.
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Creative, as a PC sound card maker, actually never have the habit of releasing power output spec. In fact, many of the headphone amp (and even audio gear) maker don't have that habit as well. Some do, but among them are quite a few that publish misleading or uncompleted spec, so those are mostly pointless as well. It is actually far too common not to list detailed spec in the audio world, not that it is right.
 
Tried awhile back. Read below:
Click to expand...

 
I asked Creative and they said they'll forward it on to the relevant department. Never got a response back. Both Fiio and Schiit are Creative's main competitors in the audiophile space and they are able to do it.
 
Jan 25, 2015 at 9:49 PM Post #482 of 2,345
dacari said:
   
Thank you ClieOS.
 
My concern is not exactly the imbalance but have too much volume that makes difficult to make micro adjustements/accuracy with sensitive iems, in other words or silence or too loud. I think E3 suffers this problem, if you use it under windows then you can adjust the system volume but if you are using it "alone" you won't have this extra adjustement.
Click to expand...

 
E3, yes, but not E5.
 
I find no problem using E5 with any IEM. If anything, it has the best volume control design of all the E series.
 
ausername501 said:
   
I asked Creative and they said they'll forward it on to the relevant department. Never got a response back. Both Fiio and Schiit are Creative's main competitors in the audiophile space and they are able to do it.
Click to expand...

 
FiiO and Schiit are both small company that tailor to a (somewhat) niche market with specific demand. Creative isn't. More correctly, Creative is just starting to venture into that market and I don't think they have had the same mindset as FiiO or Schiit. If you look at Apple, which are the biggest player of DAP maker for decades, never bother to publish detailed spec as well and yet never makes the company's product lesser popular whatsoever. Will be nice for Creative to start publishing detailed spec, but it is not the only company not / not yet to do so.
 
Jan 26, 2015 at 2:08 AM Post #483 of 2,345
clieos said:
 
Creative, as a PC sound card maker, actually never have the habit of releasing power output spec. In fact, many of the headphone amp (and even audio gear) maker don't have that habit as well. Some do, but among them are quite a few that publish misleading or uncompleted spec, so those are mostly pointless as well. It is actually far too common not to list detailed spec in the audio world, not that it is right.
 
 
Tried awhile back. Read below:
 
 
Click to expand...

 


Did you try it with a device that properly supports USB host mode, which night require android 5.0? I recommend the Note 3 or 4 also, other brands of phone aren't as good about supporting exotic features.
 
Jan 26, 2015 at 5:15 AM Post #484 of 2,345
togiff said:
 
clieos said:
   
Creative, as a PC sound card maker, actually never have the habit of releasing power output spec. In fact, many of the headphone amp (and even audio gear) maker don't have that habit as well. Some do, but among them are quite a few that publish misleading or uncompleted spec, so those are mostly pointless as well. It is actually far too common not to list detailed spec in the audio world, not that it is right.
 
 
Tried awhile back. Read below:
 
 
Click to expand...

 


Did you try it with a device that properly supports USB host mode, which night require android 5.0? I recommend the Note 3 or 4 also, other brands of phone aren't as good about supporting exotic features.
Click to expand...

My Xperia Z2 does properly support USB host, as well as native 24/192 HD decoding, just FYI. In fact, it is one of few that are capable of both. Even Lolipop only supports up to 24/96 natively. iFi Audio tested a few smartphones to pair with their iDSD and Xperia Z2 and Z3 top their recommendation.
 
Jan 26, 2015 at 5:37 AM Post #485 of 2,345
Do you have any info on the z2? Just want to learn more about the external audio functionality.

I reviewed the android docs, its saying that since android 3.1 it supported native usb host mode but only for certain devices like storage and keyboards/mice (not audio). And they got accessory mode for audio added in too, limited to 44kHz 16-bit transfer. Android 5.0 adds usb host mode support for audio devices but still only supports upto 24 bit and 48kHz.

I was shocked to see the official docs say HD audio above 48kHz was not supported.

I am trying to find docs on vendors custom versions of android if it supports more than what the official docs say.

I am guessing any Android 5.0 device is necessary for treating this like a regular soundcard on Android unless some type of custom option exists.
 
Jan 26, 2015 at 9:21 AM Post #486 of 2,345
togiff said:
Do you have any info on the z2? Just want to learn more about the external audio functionality.

I reviewed the android docs, its saying that since android 3.1 it supported native usb host mode but only for certain devices like storage and keyboards/mice (not audio). And they got accessory mode for audio added in too, limited to 44kHz 16-bit transfer. Android 5.0 adds usb host mode support for audio devices but still only supports upto 24 bit and 48kHz.

I was shocked to see the official docs say HD audio above 48kHz was not supported.

I am trying to find docs on vendors custom versions of android if it supports more than what the official docs say.

I am guessing any Android 5.0 device is necessary for treating this like a regular soundcard on Android unless some type of custom option exists.
Click to expand...

 
More specifically we are talking about USB Audio Class 1 driver for USB DAC to work, up to 24/96. To work with up to 24/192, you will need USB Audio Class 2 driver. Both of these driver are for USB DAC support. You will need the internal playback software to support them as well, and this is usually where Android falls off the wagon. This is because the default Android internal sound driver always resample everything down to 16/44.1. That means even though you might have a 24/192 USB DAC correctly connected to the smartphone, you might not actually playback the music at 24/192 because many software player you buy from PlayStore just uses the default internal sound driver (which means it is always 16/44.1). In contrast, Xperia Z2 and Z3 have their own audio driver that natively support 24/192 playback, both with the on board DAC as well as USB DAC. This is a feature Sony introduced with Z3, then to Z2 with the latest firmware update.
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 8:53 PM Post #487 of 2,345
Hmm. Yes. We are on th same page. Got a link about the custom driver the z2/3 have?

I wanted to buy this device so bad, but looking at Android's docs made me upset about the 16/44 limit.

Of course my Note 4 has support for 24/192 playback and internal chip has that as well, I am research if these external dacs get the full juice or are limited by the protocol specs set forth by Android.

On the z2/3, how do you verify the dac is connected at 24/192? Or even 24/96?
 
Jan 28, 2015 at 9:34 PM Post #488 of 2,345
togiff said:
Hmm. Yes. We are on th same page. Got a link about the custom driver the z2/3 have?

I wanted to buy this device so bad, but looking at Android's docs made me upset about the 16/44 limit.

Of course my Note 4 has support for 24/192 playback and internal chip has that as well, I am research if these external dacs get the full juice or are limited by the protocol specs set forth by Android.

On the z2/3, how do you verify the dac is connected at 24/192? Or even 24/96?
Click to expand...

 
There is no custom driver for Z2/3. It is built into the stock firmware.
 
Might surprise you that the same 24/192 capable chip made by Qualcomm has been used since 2013 (and could be as early as 2012). Most of the flagship smartphone that ran on Qualcomm all have the same audio chip, but most never bother to include the right audio driver to enable HD decoding. For example, Xperia Z1, Z2 and Z3 all uses that same chip, but only Z2 and Z3 are getting the driver.
 
To verify HD decoding, the simplest way is just to playback a HD files. The usual case is that it will plays if it supports it, since as far as I know, Adroid doesn't have any downsampling. I also own the iDSD micro which does have a LED to indicate the bitrate of the playback files, so that's how I know.
 
Jan 29, 2015 at 11:31 AM Post #489 of 2,345
I want to share my experience with Creative tech support and Android USB host mode.
 
When I connect my E5 to my Oneplus One, two things happen:
 
  • The battery in the E5 is charging my Oneplus One. This makes the E5 battery drain very rapidly.
  • When connecting the Sound Blaster E5 USB DAC to my phone I am hearing lots of crackling noise in the right channel. It is only audible when sound is playing, there is no crackling noise when there is no audio playing. It is also only happening with Google Music player, not Poweramp, which leads me to believe it's related to the way it's playing the audio, which is potentially the offload or low latency path when using Google Music player
 
The second issue is perhaps specific to my phone - though it does not happen with my iBasso D10 Cobra.
 
The first issue however, charging the host in USB host mode, is happening on every device I connect it to. This basically kills that use case for me entirely because it depletes way too fast.

Creative tech support says that:
Code: 
 When USB Host is used as point of connection on the Sound Blaster E5, the unit's normal behavior is to charge smartphone device eventually. This is part of the hardware design which cannot be prevented and there is no alternative option to disable it through the hardware.
 
So that's that. A bit disappointing.
 
Other than that, the apt-x low latency is working very well with my Avantree Priva aptx-ll transmitter, which is nice.
 
Last but not least, I too notice the noise floor. When connected to phone in host mode I notice a high frequency pitch, regardless of volume level. I blame the battery charging problem. And it probably can't be fixed. Connected to my PC something caught me off guard - when the E5 is connected to my linux box, it turns on the MIC and the MIC seems to loop back to the headphones on the device itself - no amount of muting or volume settings on my linux box will turn the mic off, so I can't test noise floor as USB DAC currently.
 
Jan 29, 2015 at 12:10 PM Post #490 of 2,345
For #1, yes, with Android devices it has been confirmed that the E5 will change the device.
I can confirm that neither the iPhone 5 nor the iPad Air suck power from the E5.
For #2, that could be a rate negotiation which does not end up playing well at the end and packet timing can not keep up. Did you try a lower kbps x bits?
 
Jan 29, 2015 at 9:07 PM Post #491 of 2,345
I think the Linux issue with mic has to do with how it is controlled by the software driver (or the lack of, in this case). Without an official driver, there will always be an issue. I'll advise contacting Creative and request for a official Linux driver.
 
Jan 31, 2015 at 4:06 AM Post #493 of 2,345
The SBX feature is more o less like a Dolby Headphone?
 
I used to own sound blaster but none of them had SBX feature (or never used it) but many years ago I discovered Dolby Headphone with Theatron sound card and recently Asus Xonar DX and I really enjoyed Dolby Headphone feature. Obviously not always useful with music but spectacular with games, movies, concerts..I never found it artificial or something really strange.
 
I'm deciding between E5 and Onkyo HA200 since the Onkyo is on sale I can get more or less for the same price. I imagine the Onkyo will have more refined sound (any comparison?) the slight harsh/analytical highs on the E5 are settle down afer some burn-in?
 
Jan 31, 2015 at 7:51 AM Post #494 of 2,345
Yes, not exactly the same but more or less similar functionality to simulate surround sound on headphone.
 
Jan 31, 2015 at 10:15 AM Post #495 of 2,345
dacari said:
  The SBX feature is more o less like a Dolby Headphone?
 
I used to own sound blaster but none of them had SBX feature (or never used it) but many years ago I discovered Dolby Headphone with Theatron sound card and recently Asus Xonar DX and I really enjoyed Dolby Headphone feature. Obviously not always useful with music but spectacular with games, movies, concerts..I never found it artificial or something really strange.
 
I'm deciding between E5 and Onkyo HA200 since the Onkyo is on sale I can get more or less for the same price. I imagine the Onkyo will have more refined sound (any comparison?) the slight harsh/analytical highs on the E5 are settle down afer some burn-in?
Click to expand...

I'm trying to make the exact same decision here, though in my case the E5 is cheaper than the Onkyo or its Teac twin. My main concern is which one will be able to best drive the DT770/250. The E5 info seems vague on its power output while other specs are described in great detail, which makes me a little bit suspicious.
 
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