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How is "tube sound" even audible in modern headphone amps?
Jun 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM Post #196 of 380
Controlled listening tests are all that really matter when it comes to home audio.
 
Jun 28, 2014 at 7:09 PM Post #198 of 380
bufferoverflow said:
Could you please move that discussion to one of the appropriate gear-porn threads ?
Trust me, you really don't want to post a 'amp-review' in the 'Sound-science'-thread -
Unless you have measurements to show ..
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Actually the title of the thread is "Is Tube Sound Audible". So you have a member with a tube amp buy a solid state. It makes complete sense to post a review here. Please take your hall monitor duities elsewhere.
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 12:23 PM Post #200 of 380
it's not the size of the tube, but oh boy are they slick.
deadhorse.gif

 
 
I'm actually very much for a comparison of low disto SS vs low distortion tube amp. if some people could do it it would be great.
but to be meaningful in any way we would need "a real one". by that I mean to know the actual distortion values when listening on that given system, some matter of blind test, volume matching, make sure that the impedance differences wouldn't modify the headphone FR. and that would be only basic requirements, not an easy task at all.
 
else how do we know that we're talking about the sound of the tubes and not just some FR trick, some amp instability, some damping problems, one being louder, or just one being pretty?
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 1:12 PM Post #201 of 380
castleofargh said:
it's not the size of the tube, but oh boy are they slick.
:deadhorse:


I'm actually very much for a comparison of low disto SS vs low distortion tube amp. if some people could do it it would be great.
but to be meaningful in any way we would need "a real one". by that I mean to know the actual distortion values when listening on that given system, some matter of blind test, volume matching, make sure that the impedance differences wouldn't modify the headphone FR. and that would be only basic requirements, not an easy task at all.

else how do we know that we're talking about the sound of the tubes and not just some FR trick, some amp instability, some damping problems, one being louder, or just one being pretty?
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Well, start a thread and don't title it audible differences between tube amps and solid state amps. I'm sure they are out there for regular amps but it would be nice to see headphone amps done. My review will be very short and short on methodology. I'm just waiting for my CD player.


So far I have switched to using the Asgard with a computer setup and DAC. Interestingly you don't see more shoot outs between solid-state and tube amps. This phenomena maybe the direct result of each camp being firmly entrenched in the believed superiority of said product and do not feel a comparison would be needed.


The best folks in this regard would be the younger members with no preconceived notion as to superiority and just want to learn about audio on their own. What is better to learn than with an open mind clear of the deluded ideas we as seniors keep close as facts.
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 2:36 PM Post #202 of 380
castleofargh said:
  I'm actually very much for a comparison of low disto SS vs low distortion tube amp. if some people could do it it would be great.
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If the distortion on both is beneath the threshold of audibility, and the response on both was flat, I don't see what there would be to talk about.
 
The best tube amps sound as good as solid state.
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 2:41 PM Post #203 of 380
bigshot said:
   
If the distortion on both is beneath the threshold of audibility, and the response on both was flat, I don't see what there would be to talk about.
 
The best tube amps sound as good as solid state.
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+1
That about sums it up. But some like to discuss the matter, even with civility, unless it's in one of the product worship threads..
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 4:25 PM Post #204 of 380
not at all, I talked about that only because I'm concerned that what the manufacturer gives us might be different than reality.
if the given values stand for the reviewer's gears, then I totally don't care about inaudible distortion levels. don't mistake my  past comment for some 0.00001% THD fetish ^_^.
inaudible is good enough for me.
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 4:30 PM Post #205 of 380
castleofargh said:
  not at all, I talked about that only because I'm concerned that what the manufacturer gives us might be different than reality.
if the given values stand for the reviewer's gears, then I totally don't care about inaudible distortion levels. don't mistake my  past comment for some 0.00001% THD fetish ^_^.
inaudible is good enough for me.
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Sounds good to me 
normal_smile .gif
 
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 4:41 PM Post #206 of 380
bigshot said:
   
If the distortion on both is beneath the threshold of audibility, and the response on both was flat, I don't see what there would be to talk about.
 
The best tube amps sound as good as solid state.
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Considering the fuss that some folks make regarding whether or not their kilobuck amp has superior tube sound AND some perfectly transparent capability unachievable by a modestly priced but equally spec'd solid state amp, I would say that there would be quite a bit to talk about. Mostly we would talk about how there really shouldn't be anything to talk about.
 
Sometimes it is necessary to fight back against the constant stream of gibberish spewed in anti-reason forums with some common sense discussion.
 
Cheers
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 4:47 PM Post #207 of 380
ab initio said:
   
Considering the fuss that some folks make regarding whether or not their kilobuck amp has superior tube sound AND some perfectly transparent capability unachievable by a modestly priced but equally spec'd solid state amp, I would say that there would be quite a bit to talk about. Mostly we would talk about how there really shouldn't be anything to talk about.
 
Sometimes it is necessary to fight back against the constant stream of gibberish spewed in anti-reason forums with some common sense discussion.
 
Cheers
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This also sounds good to me 
normal_smile%20.gif
  IMO.once someone spends a kilobuck on something they might have to feel it's the bee's knees or else they might become upset at their purchase. I'd be inclined to exercise the refund policy, if it exists.
 
Jun 29, 2014 at 11:22 PM Post #208 of 380
The best audible test I could think of would be at a meet where the members put their amps behind a curtain and other members just took turns listening to headphones and writing their thought down on a note pad next to the headphones. This way the equipment is not owned by the listener and the audio set up can not be viewed for preconceived placebo of superiority.


That said it is hard for any owner to admit his trophy amp is not as great as he once thought it was. I say this but have also heard fantastic rigs that were both expensive and set-up right.
 
Jun 30, 2014 at 12:48 AM Post #209 of 380
Bruce Coppola did that, but the results weren't what the site hosting his review wanted to hear, so they deleted it.
 
Jun 30, 2014 at 12:51 AM Post #210 of 380
bigshot said:
Bruce Coppola did that, but the results weren't what the site hosting his review wanted to hear, so they deleted it.
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They just did a test on line where people would listen to 16bit or 24bit files and state which they thought was the lower and higher bit rate. I will look for the thread.



edit:http://www.head-fi.org/t/724753/24-vs-16-bit-test-results
 
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