[Rico613]

No argument here, the HD800 is excellent for classical listening.  In addition to the Fazor and Silver Dragon 3 cable on the LCD-3, I use a 30 band equalizer.  When I did the comparison I equalized both headphones for my hearing and then both were equalized for volume with pink noise.  The LCD-3F had a richer fuller more mature sound, but the HD800s were also excellent.  There is was also a difference between the headphone cables.  It could be the Silver Dragon on the LCD-3F is just a better cable than the  Wireworld solid OCC copper on the HD800.   I would be tempted to install a solid OCC silver cable on the HD 800's but it's a little pricy and I think I'll just enjoy the music for a while.

 

[lojay]

No argument here, the HD800 is excellent for classical listening.  In addition to the Fazor and Silver Dragon 3 cable on the LCD-3, I use a 30 band equalizer.  When I did the comparison I equalized both headphones for my hearing and then both were equalized for volume with pink noise.  The LCD-3F had a richer fuller more mature sound, but the HD800s were also excellent.  There is was also a difference between the headphone cables.  It could be the Silver Dragon on the LCD-3F is just a better cable than the  Wireworld solid OCC copper on the HD800.   I would be tempted to install a solid OCC silver cable on the HD 800's but it's a little pricy and I think I'll just enjoy the music for a while.

 
It's a matter of taste I think, I prefer using OCC copper to tame the treble and add to the bass. Perhaps the LCD-3F is a great improvement on the treble and soundstage over the old LCD-3. 
 
I'd add that having heard the WE 417A NOS for weeks, I still prefer the 6C45Pi for acoustic and instrumental music. I can see why people prefer the WE 417A for pop / rock / vocals as it does sound softer and more natural.
 
Not too much of an urge to try the Pinnacle and Teton ... yet.

 

[Rico613]

  Not too much of an urge to try the Pinnacle and Teton ... yet.

lol . . . 

 

[preproman]

   
It's a matter of taste I think, I prefer using OCC copper to tame the treble and add to the bass. Perhaps the LCD-3F is a great improvement on the treble and soundstage over the old LCD-3. 
 
I'd add that having heard the WE 417A NOS for weeks, I still prefer the 6C45Pi for acoustic and instrumental music. I can see why people prefer the WE 417A for pop / rock / vocals as it does sound softer and more natural.
 
Not too much of an urge to try the Pinnacle and Teton ... yet.

 
You use a copper cable to tame the treble..  and on top of that you also put the mod on the HD800s?  
 
That will take away to much of the what the HD800s are for me.  I use a solid core copper cable (hardwired)  If that even does anything.  It's enough for me - I don't want to over do it on the HD800s.  They never did bother me in stock form anyway..  

 

[lojay]

You use a cooper cable to tame the treble..  and on top of that you also put the mod on the HD800s?  

That will take away to much of the what the HD800s are for me.  I use a solid core copper cable (hardwired)  If that even does anything.  It's enough for me - I don't want to over do it on the HD800s.  They never did bother me in stock form anyway..  

I only add the liner rug and remove the dust cover, which if anything improves the treble rather than reduce it. What it reduces is the unwanted reverberations or vibrations. I do not use any foam or felt ring near the driver as that, as you say, takes away too much of the treble and soundstage.

 

[preproman]

O ok I see now..  

 

[magiccabbage]

   
You use a cooper cable to tame the treble..  and on top of that you also put the mod on the HD800s?  
 
That will take away to much of the what the HD800s are for me.  I use a solid core copper cable (hardwired)  If that even does anything.  It's enough for me - I don't want to over do it on the HD800s.  They never did bother me in stock form anyway..  

Very few albums bother me on HD800 as well. I did get a Billie Holiday album yesterday called "Body and Soul" which has slightly harsh treble on the vocal but other than that its fine. 

 

[lojay]

Anyone mind posting comparisons of 4-45 with the Ragnarok driving the HD800s? I will be having both in house in due course. 
I think Purrin has heard both and has both in the house.

 

[lojay]

  Anyone mind posting comparisons of 4-45 with the Ragnarok driving the HD800s? I will be having both in house in due course. 
I think Purrin has heard both and has both in the house.

 
I am doing some comparisons for the two amps, SPL matched.
 
Test track: Epilogue (Finale) of the Les Mis 10th Anniversary CD.
 
Equipment: Eddie Current 4-45 with NOS WE 417As and EML 45 Solid Plates; Schiit Ragnarok; Sennheiser HD800 with semi Anax 2.0 mods (i.e. rug liner and covered trapezoid) and SAA Endorphin single ended or Cardas Clear XLR cables.
 
Impressions: I listened to the Epilogue of Les Mis back and forth on both amps. It seems that 4-45 has a more realistic soundstage in terms of instrumental placement. Within the stage, the distance between different instruments can be clearly ascertained. The focal point, for instance, the lead singers, remain a focal point. It is highly impressive and reminds me of the days when I frequented the Lis Mis theatre performances in London. The Rag on the other hand flattens the distance between the instruments and the voices, whilst highlighting detail in the instrumentals, for instance, the chimes at the beginning on the track. Those details are rendered more clearly and with more nuance than the 4-45, as a result, however, the soundstage sounds more flattened. It gives the feeling that I am listening to a CD. It seems that the 4-45's strength is imaging and realistic portrayal of soundstage in live performances. This means there is some recession in the mid-highs, giving the impression of depth but also of decreased detailed in accompanying instruments or backup vocals. 
 
Despite this, spacial images and cues are presented with more precision by the 4-45, giving a sense of better space and overall detail. Echoes are clearly heard on the 4-45, allowing the listener to hear the size of the venue. The Rag on the other hand presents things in a more "organic" manner but without such a good sense of space. Vocals sound smoother on the Rag (even with the HD800) which is a plus for modern recordings but less so in live recordings such as this.
 
In terms of musicality, both amps gave me goosebumps - repeatedly - and both sound organic in their own way. 
 
The 4-45 is the winner here with the excellent soundstage and "I am there" sort of realism. 
 
Will try to compare the two amps on other sorts of music.

 

[cradon]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[gsr108]

I was wondering if anyone could help me with an issue I'm having.  I traded a 2A3 MKIV for a 4-45.  Received it 2 days ago.  First night I had it, everything worked fine.  Listened to it for 2 hours without issue.  The next morning I woke up and pulled the 45 tubes to make sure they were matched correctly (they were) and attempted to turn on the amp.  Amp now does not turn on.  Tried changing power cables, different outlets, reconnecting the cords without success.  Pulled the fuse - it looks good and ended up replacing it anyway but amp still will not turn on.  I did notice that the fuse was a 4A 125V fuse, when the amp states it should use a 2.5A 250V fuse.  Amp came that way from previous owner - he states he never touched the fuses and it came that way from eddie current.  I've emailed Craig but he hasn't replied yet.  Is there anything I'm missing?  Any help is appreciated.  Thanks. 

 

[Rico613]

4 Amp fuse is standard on the 445, I asked Craig about it & he said 2.5 A - 4 A is OK.  Higher rated fuses sound better according to some people, but with some added risk of course.  
 
The power-up issue may have to do with tubes not being seated properly or maybe the pins are misaligned.  
 
You did power off before removing and replacing the tubes right? . . . RIGHT?
 
Hope this helps.

 

[gsr108]

Amp was off before I reseated the tubes.  Have since tried to move the positions of the tubes, reseat tubes without successfully being able to get the amp to turn on.  Regarding fuses, does the 250V matter? Since the fuse I found was 125V.

 

[Rico613]

I don't think the voltage rating on the fuse matters.  It maybe worth testing the fuse just to be sure that's not the issue.  Sometimes is it hard to see a blown fuse.  (but why would it blow?)  Doubtful it's a fuse issue, IMO.
 
Other than that I'd check the driver tubes as well.  I don't know what kind of 45 tubes are in there, but if they're vintage one could have gone bad.  Do you have a way to test them?  Does the power supply warm up?  Maybe a power cord got kicked loose?  (it happens!) 

 

[gsr108]

The 45 tubes are vintage - brought from Brent Jesse.  Unfortunately I have no way of testing the tubes.  Of note the power supply doesn't even turn on.  I've checked the cords, reconnected, changed cords, used different outlets, etc without success.  Still waiting on Craig to email me back.  I just sent it to him again in case he missed it yesterday.