How heavy can you accept in order to achieve better sound and appearance?

As is known to us all, the sound and appearance of the player could be a contradiction to its weight.
 
Firstly, as to the appearance, it is widely believed that the metal material has higher sense of value than that of plastic. However, even the relative light aluminum magnesium alloy material can be heavier than the plastic.
 
Secondly, to achieve better sound quality, we would choose the DAC and OPAMP with higher power consumption and set higher operating voltage. Hence, we have to use battery with higher capacity to ensure reasonable playback time.
 
Therefore, the desired weight also sets limit to us for the casing material and sound quality of the player.

If the device can drive reasonable headphones without an external amp, up to 300g is fine, the DX100 weighs in at about 265g, I'd be happy with a bit more weight if it increases the battery life and storage capacity.

dc-k said:

  If the device can drive reasonable headphones without an external amp, up to 300g is fine, the DX100 weighs in at about 265g, I'd be happy with a bit more weight if it increases the battery life and storage capacity.

Click to expand...

 
We will see how big we can make for the power output.

If it is a DAP, it's intended use is for on the go (right?). And the average portable headphone doesn't exceed 250G's. I wouldn't want my DAP to be substantially heavier than my headphones themselves, so I'd say 250G's or under is within the realm of comfortabilty. Perhaps slightly more.

DX100 and HM-901 sound great, but the problem is they are so big and bulky that they are not suitable for pocket use unless you wear a jacket during summer.   If you try to put them in the pocket of your jeans/trousers/cargo pants, they're just too big and bulky  (I actually owned a DX100 and found this out, personally). So what's the point in having a DAP that's so bulky, you have to carry it in a rucksack, during the summer months? You may just as well go for a 2-box stack (DAP+Amp or DAP+DacAmp).
 
So I feel it is extremely important for Fiio to be very, very clear about their intended target market for the X7. Is it going to be a bulky single-box DAP like the DX100 or HM-901, which is capable of driving cans but is not much smaller than a 2-box stack, or is it going to be aimed at IEM/CIEM users who wish to use a single-box DAP in their pocket even during the hot seasons of the year?
 
 
I am interested in TOTL SQ, but I do not feel that the X7 needs to be able to drive power-hungry cans like the DX100 and HM-901 are able to.
 
I understand that higher operating voltage still requires a bigger battery, and that it is a very difficult thing to balance the demands of SQ vs size/weight. But I feel the DX100 and HM-901 went too far and became too bulky. I like the DX100 and I like it's SQ, but it's just too damn big to walk around with in one's jeans pocket. I do not wish to buy a DAP that exceeds 20mm thickness and 230grams weight.
 
I was initially very vocal in my disappointment that the X5 power output was being reduced from it's originally-intended spec, but it actually turned out to be a respectable power output and I see no reason for the X7 to exceed the power output of the X5.
 
The Calyx-M would be an excellent starting-point for inspiration for an Android-based TOTL pocket DAP. It is obviously a very complex circuit design, but the DAP strikes a good balance between size/bulk and probable SQ, with a careful implementation of the DAC.   90mw isn't very powerful, but it may be just sufficient for CIEM-users (I am reserving judgment until I have heard it). The Calyx-M is 15mm thick and 230g. I could live with a 5mm thicker equivalent DAP from Fiio, but would prefer, if possible, a slightly smaller length (i.e. based around a slightly smaller touchscreen), and slightly less weight.
 
I see no point in Fiio producing an amazing-sounding DAP if it ends up being almost as bulky as HM-901 / DX100. That would just be a waste of time.
 
 
 
.

About 250 ~ 300g is ideal.
(modification)

 
it's not the weight, it's how we can carry it ^_^.

I already found the x5 to be on the larger/heavier side of optimum. Not prohibitive in an absolute sense but it would have me more easily consider others.

mython said:

  DX100 and HM-901 sound great, but the problem is they are so big and bulky that they are not suitable for pocket use unless you wear a jacket during summer.   If you try to put them in the pocket of your jeans/trousers/cargo pants, they're just too big and bulky  (I actually owned a DX100 and found this out, personally). So what's the point in having a DAP that's so bulky, you have to carry it in a rucksack, during the summer months? You may just as well go for a 2-box stack (DAP+Amp or DAP+DacAmp).
 
 
I see no point in Fiio producing an amazing-sounding DAP if it ends up being almost as bulky as HM-901 / DX100. That would just be a waste of time.
 
 
 
.

Click to expand...

Different people clearly have different priorities. To me there's a significant difference in a single, relatively compact one box solution that powers my headphones really nicely (DX100) and a stack of bits with cable and interconnects.
 
At the moment there isn't that much choice in that market segment, I think a high end DAP that gives a little more choice there would be far from a waste of time, more a driver for constant improvement.

any opinion is ok, just vote what you need.

For me, size is more relevant. For the same sound quality, I would rather have a 300g plus zip clip than a 10g HM-901.

The extra weight in my x5 feels of quality, precisely because it is NOT the size of the HM-901. At the size of the HM-901, what does weight matter anyways as it is only going to sit on a desk. On the other hand if my iPhone 5S, didn't have a nice weight to it, it would feel as cheap as the plastic Samsung series rather than a premium phone. If my iPhone 5S sounded as nice by its self as a HM-901, that weight and form factor would make the ultimate DAP.

IMO, I would rather see the weight go toward premium parts like a 627 opamp implementation than a large battery. Defaulting to the dx90 style S3 user swappable batteries with independent charging allows for infinite battery life, lighter weight, and cheap - easy to purchase - extra batteries and independent chargers. Then you could provide a default low profile battery cover plus a fatter cover to accomidate a fatter extended battery option for those that use them. My power hungry Hidition NT6pros burn through the standard dx90 S3 battery in 4 hours, but no worries, I always have a few fully charged batteries on hand. The s3 battery is small and light making it easy to carry extras. I can swap batteries with the easy to remove cover in less than 20 seconds.

The only fail for the dx90 battery implementation was not providing an optional fatter battery cover option for the fatter extended S3 batteries for those that use them. This has forced users to remove the cover and hold the extended battery in with the stretchy silicone case.

I missed out on the poll, but the equivalent of the X5, or slightly more would be a good spot to try to target.
 
Also, enough power that an external amp would not be required. To me that defeats the purpose of a portable DAP.
 
As far as carrying options, it would be nice to see a case with a belt clip to mitigate issues with trying to stuff it into pockets, etc.
 
I bought a belt clip case that is made for 5" phones that fits my X5 perfectly with my IEMs connected. If Fiio were to offer something similar to this I would buy it in a heartbeat (I have this for my iPhone):
 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/platinum-series-case-with-holster-for-apple-iphone-4-and-4s-black/4031043.p?id=1218450050298&skuId=4031043

jbr1971 said:

   
I bought a belt clip case that is made for 5" phones that fits my X5 perfectly with my IEMs connected. If Fiio were to offer something similar to this I would buy it in a heartbeat (I have this for my iPhone):
 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/platinum-series-case-with-holster-for-apple-iphone-4-and-4s-black/4031043.p?id=1218450050298&skuId=4031043

Click to expand...

 
That's every mugger / /pickpocket / bag-snatcher's dream; they'll see your phone / DAP, from a mile down the street.   Why would you wish to display your device where it can attract unpleasant attention, when you conceal it to some degree by putting it (a bit more safely) inside a pocket?
 
 
But, aside from the belt clip issue, I do support Fiio perhaps making a nice leather case available for the X7.

jbr1971 said:

  I missed out on the poll, but the equivalent of the X5, or slightly more would be a good spot to try to target.

Click to expand...

 
X5 = 195g, so I guess you mean no more than about 220g.
 
It's about time one of the DAP producers considered adding a helium-filled anti-gravity cartridge option  

mython said:

   
That's every mugger / /pickpocket / bag-snatcher's dream; they'll see your phone / DAP, from a mile down the street.   Why would you wish to display your device where it can attract unpleasant attention, when you conceal it to some degree by putting it (a bit more safely) inside a pocket?
 
 
But, aside from the belt clip issue, I do support Fiio perhaps making a nice leather case available for the X7.
 
X5 = 195g, so I guess you mean no more than about 220g.
 
It's about time one of the DAP producers considered adding a helium-filled anti-gravity cartridge option

 

Click to expand...

 
I'm not worried about it being pinched, I am a very large individual & mindful of my surroundings.
 
For me it is about accessibility & I have always done well with belt clips. Of course, now that I have said that...

Everyone has a preference but if I want the best sound I expect it to be on the larger size.  With the buttons I expect and the such I would go as far as 500 myself.  It's not an exercise model like the x1 or x3.  It is a audiophile portable.  Not an audiophile credit card with all features which increases price substantially.