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A Comparison of different Virtual Surround Sound on the same Audio Track

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 

Update: I've recently been given a full license to the Spatial Sound Card App by New Audio Technology. I'm currently working on creating a test track:

 

List of VSS software I currently have:

 

 

VSS software I need to get:

 

 

I would also check out SAGE (Spatial Audio Game Engine) if you have Doom 3 (not BFG edition).


 

Your impressions on the differences between each recording are welcome.




I'm going to start doing comparison videos of different virtual surround sound software. The aim is to use the same video footage and apply the VSS processing afterwards.

I record the footage the footage in Fraps using multi-channel audio recording. Then play back the video with the desired VSS software and record the stereo output. I then overlay this VSS processed audio on to the original footage.

I'll be uploading these as videos to Youtube but because of the audio compression that Youtube uses I will also upload them to Mega in FLAC.

I've uploaded some test audio of Dead Space recorded in 5.1.
 

How To Listen To These Recordings (Click to show)

How To Listen To These Recordings
 

  1.  Go to Playback devices and right click your default playback device.
  2.  Click Configure Speakers and set to Stereo
  3.  Tick Full Range Speakers
  4.  Turn off any Virtual Surround Sound you are using Use Headphones
5.1 Surround Sound: The Audio From Dead Space With Different Virtual Surround Sound - Download Links Inside (Click to show)

Here is the audio from the beginning of Dead Space with different VSS applied:

For Dolby Headphone I'm using this wrapper for Foobar2k which is 5.1 and has DH1, 2 and 3. I don't have a sound card with Dolby Headphone 7.1 at the moment and neither can I afford it right now. In the future I'll get a Xonar U7 which has Dolby Headphone 7.1 which will be used for my 7.1 recordings for Razer VSS, CMSS-3D 7.1 and Dolby Headphone 7.1

 

All are in FLAC and about 70MB each. The 6 channel Raw is 160MB.

 

Raw 6 Channel Audio

 

CMSS-3D 5.1 Game Mode Crystalizer Off Full Range Speakers Off

CMSS-3D 5.1 Game Mode Crystalizer 65% Full Range Speakers Off

 

CMSS-3D 5.1 Entertainment Mode Stereo Envelopment 67% Crystalizer Off Full Range Speakers Off

CMSS-3D 5.1 Entertainment Mode Stereo Envelopment 67% Crystalizer 65% Full Range Speakers Off

CMSS-3D 5.1 Entertainment Mode Stereo Envelopment 100% Crystalizer Off Full Range Speakers Off

CMSS-3D 5.1 Entertainment Mode Stereo Envelopment 100% Crystalizer 65% Full Range Speakers Off

 

Dolby Headphone 5.1 DH1 - Reference Room

Dolby Headphone 5.1 DH2 - Live Room

Dolby Headphone 5.1 DH3 - Movie Theater


SBX Pro Studio Surround 67% Crystalizer Off Bass Off Smart Volume Off Dialog Plus Off Full Range Speakers Off

SBX Pro Studio Surround 67% Crystalizer 65% Bass Off Smart Volume Off Dialog Plus Off Full Range Speakers Off

SBX Pro Studio Surround 100% Crystalizer Off Bass Off Smart Volume Off Dialog Plus Off Full Range Speakers Off

 

SBX Pro Studio Surround 100% Crystalizer 65% Bass Off Smart Volume Off Dialog Plus Off Full Range Speakers Off

 

Razer VSS Stereo Enhancement Off Bass Boost Off Sound Normalization Off Voice Clarity Off


Razer VSS Stereo Enhancement On Bass Boost Off Sound Normalization Off Voice Clarity Off

My Audio Impressions So Far (Click to show)

 

My Audio Impressions So Far
 

  • Dolby Headphone sounds the most distant as if the speaker source is further away. The differences between DH1, 2 and 3 are relatively minor.
  • Razer VSS sounds like the speakers are closest to your head
  • SBX Pro Studio and CMSS-3D sound very similar to each other.
  • CMSS-3D is louder relative to SBX Pro Studio. Digital volume control is at 100 for all of these tests.
  • I'm pretty sure CMSS-3D is clipping during loud sections.
  • Positioning behind is clearer with CMSS-3D than SBX Pro Studio but this may be due to CMSS-3D being louder
  • I'm surprised by how similar they all sound if you ignore Dolby Headphone.
Recording Method (Click to show)

Recording method
 

  1.  Record game footage with Fraps with multi-channel selected.
  2.  Save WAV audio from AVI with VirtualDubMod
  3.  Using Audacity record "What U hear" @ 2 channel and source sampling rate while playing back WAV audio in Foobar2K (100% volume) using WASAPI and VSS enabled e.g. Output Device: WASAPI Push Sound Blaster Z
  4.  Save and recorded Audacity recorded audio as FLAC. Removing beginning silence and end silence.
  5.  Overlay this audio on to video


The problem with this setup is that it is slow. Does anyone have any ideas in how to speed it up?

 

Mega has 50GB for free so hopefully that will last a while.

Comparing 5.1 and 7.1 (Click to show)
Comparing 5.1 and 7.1

I don't believe it will be possible to compare 5.1 and 7.1 VSS. The reason is that the side speakers for SBX Pro Studio are at 110° whereas in a 7.1 system such as CMSS-3D they are at 90°. This means that you can't take a 7.1 track and remove the 2 rear channels.
VSS Applied To Stereo Music (Click to show) Videos (Click to show)

Videos

You should follow the steps in "How To Listen To These Recordings" for these videos as well.

Twitch Streams

 

Dead Space Ep1 - SBX Pro Studio Surround 67% Crystalizer Off Bass Off Smart Volume Off Dialog Plus Off Full Range Speakers Off

 

 

 


 

This Section is Currently Under Maintenance and being reworded. (Click to show)

At the moment there are quite a few virtual surround sound comparison (from here onwards will be called VSS) videos out there. They are pretty good but they are fundamentally flawed in that the video game footage and audio is not the same for each VSS. As a result, it is not possible to A/B test them correctly. I hope to change this by creating a standardised video that all VSS can be applied too.

 

VSS software no longer takes data from the game now that OpenAL, EAX and DirectSound are deprecated. Modern audio processing with fmod and Xaudio is all done in software on the CPU. Modern VSS software such as SBX Pro Studio, Dolby Headphone, Razer VSS, CMSS-3D only take the outputted PCM audio channels from the game and use it in their Head Related Transfer Functions. As a result, this means that if we record game footage and have the PCM audio channels remain intact we can then use any VSS and record the Stereo PCM output which has been processed by the VSS software.

 

Creating a standardised test track means that any future VSS software can be directly compared with other VSS software using the same track.

 

Here are questions that need to be asked:

 

How do we evaluate VSS software?

 

To evaluate VSS software we need to understand what it is being used for. I'll broadly segment game audio into different categories.

 

Competitive audio is where all useful information is emphasised and useless information isn't. Here is what I think is important for this type of audio:

  • Clear positional cues 360° around the player and verticality as well
  • Clear sense of distance
  • Bass is greatly reduced
  • Frequency response where footsteps, gunshots and voices are located are increased
  • Clarity. How clear are different sounds in a cluttered soundscape

 

Immersive audio is to recreate the sound as if it were an actual environment. This is an objective ideal in that you can compare to a real environment.

 

"Fun" audio is sound that is enjoyable to the listener. This usually has an elevated bass response, perhaps the sound of bullets moving through air is emphasised, voices are emphasised etc...

 

So, I've thought of three categories but I want your feedback on how these categories can be expanded and improved.

 

What games and what events should be included in the VSS test track?

 

If we are to evaluate using a test track then we need to make sure that all the information we would need is there to be evaluated. When comparing headphones listeners usually use small segments of tracks as a reference point and use this for all headphone comparisons. We need to do the same. With headphones you may want to compare the sound of a cymbal crash on a particular song, the sound of a drum in another etc...

 

So what would we use for games?

 

Here are some of my ideas:

 

  • Helicopter travelling around the player:
    You can test how well the positional cues in a 360° circle and whether the helicopter sounds above you or not
     
  • Battlefield is a good game to use:
    It has gunfire in the distance, jets and helicopters flowing over head, close quarter gunfire. The soundscape is cluttered with a lot of noise.
     
  • The sound of footsteps of someone running above you or around you

 

There must be more and people with more competitive experience can say what they want and find important.

 

The Recording of Footage

 

Fraps allows recording of multi-channel PCM and that is what I will use. The master video will be edited together footage that contains 8 channels (7.1).

 

How to record the VSS stereo:

 

  • Play the Master Video and record the stereo output with your VSS using the desired settings.

    There should be an option to record what you hear in Windows. Record that with Audacity. Overlay the stereo output recorded on to the original video or send the stereo audio to someone else who can overlay it on to the original video.

 

This makes it incredibly easy because you don't have to worry about recreating the same conditions. You just need to make sure the stereo output from the VSS is recorded correctly and someone can do overlay it on to the original video. It also means that a person doesn't need to have a lot of soundcards and newer VSS can be compared using the same video.

 

I'll add a proper guide later but for the moment this is only the planning stage.

 

The critical problem of 5.1 and 7.1 VSS

 

There is however at the moment one key problem. SBX Pro Studio is 5.1 and CMSS-3D is 7.1. You can't record both 5.1 and 7.1 from a game at the same time so it wouldn't be possible to compare the same footage as SBX Pro Studio is 5.1 and CMSS-3D is 7.1

 

I hopefully have a solution of taking the 8 channels (7.1) and removing the two rear channels to create 6 channels (5.1). I have even done this already using the game Hard Reset.

 

Hard Reset support both 7.1 and 5.1. Using the benchmark tool in Hard Reset I have recorded the benchmark audio as 7.1 using Fraps, then removed the rear channels using Audacity and this creates 6 channels (5.1). I then recorded the benchmark tool again using 5.1 rather than 7.1 in Fraps.

 

I then processed the audio with SBX Pro Studio (67%, Crystalizer off, bass off, smart volume off, dialog plus off).

 

Here is the two FLAC files: https://anonfiles.com/file/ae346e7ab01e7d419e806430c24e63a2

 

One is the native 5.1 process through SBX Pro Studio and the other is 7.1 with the two rear channels removed processed through SBX Pro Studio. I want to know if they sound the same to you or not.

 

If it sounds the same then the game footage can be recorded in 7.1 and to compare 7.1 VSS such as CMSS-3D to 5.1 VSS such as SBX Pro Studio you only need to remove the two rear channels from the master video.

 


It sounds like the speakers for SBX Pro Studio are at 110° and the side channels for CMSS-3D are at 90°.

 

 


 


Edited by AUserName501 - 4/27/14 at 3:29am
post #2 of 33

Great post - subbed!

post #3 of 33

Try with the free Isone Surround too! use some VST wrapper on foobar (or I'll do it if you want, as soon as I get back home)

 

 

Also, Out of your Head would be interesting to try out. 

post #4 of 33

Great job!

Why don't you also upload the video itself, without any sound? So that we could compare sound clues with video, to check how accurate they are.

post #5 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote: 3stun (Click to show)
Quote: 3stun (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stun View Post
 

Great job!

Why don't you also upload the video itself, without any sound? So that we could compare sound clues with video, to check how accurate they are.

 

I'm going to do so.

post #6 of 33

Are you going to use a movie editor to overlay the audio onto the video ie one file as opposed to two? Looking forward to these.

post #7 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote: SaLX (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post
 

Are you going to use a movie editor to overlay the audio onto the video ie one file as opposed to two? Looking forward to these.

 

Yes. I need to be careful with the timing.

post #8 of 33
Thread Starter 

Some significant updates made.

post #9 of 33

Will check them out.

post #10 of 33

Checked DH1 vs CMSS with Crystalizer 0%, and DH1 definitely provides darker sound, and I agree that sounds seem to be coming from a greater distance.

I did the sound test before watching the video, and tested the opening part where they see Ishimura for the first time, approach it, smash into it and enter it.

I'm using AD900X headphones.

The man & woman talking before the crash seem to be like 1-1.5m from the protagonist with CMSS, while with DH1 distance seems several times longer.

Besides, DH1 provides much darker sound, with less highs, more bass & lower mid, more body.

CMSS sound thinner, with much less bass and forced highs. This gives more clarity, and it is easier to understand what characters are saying.

On the other hand, the part when they smash into Ishimura is more impressive with DH1 due to more bass and fuller sound.

Besides, the salutation they hear through dynamics when entering Ishimura, while other characters are talking, is also rendered better by DH1, in my opinion.

I didn't notice much difference in positioning in this episode. Perhaps CMSS is a bit better due to accentuated highs & better clarity. But DH1 gives somehow fuller sound, with more body and texture. I would pick CMSS for darker/veiled headphones like Sennheisers and DH1 for brighter headphones like Audio-Technika or AKG.

post #11 of 33

Very good effort. How about EQing CMSS-3D to SBX levels and compare? Could you do that? 

 

What other game have you planned for recording? How about Bioshock Infinite? 

post #12 of 33

Wish I could weigh in having listened to quite a few different VSS's and headphones. I have a prolonged ear infection = certain frequencies sound like a robot just said them - so I'd be useless basically :smile:

 

Dunno if you've ever read this by a poster here called benbenkr: http://www.overclock.net/t/1392877/a-couple-questions-about-cmss-3d-dolby-headphone-and-similar-technologies. An extremely pertinent post and I couldn't agree more. Not enough is said as to the pros and cons of open/closed when used with DH, SBX or CMSS-3D. Even listening to your files with one or the other type of headphone may well colour the results.

 

BTW: Was it you Dreyka that said you wanted to try out this new tech?: http://www.newaudiotechnology.de/produkte/sage-spatial-audio-game-engine/

post #13 of 33

I don't see any Youtube links.  Did you change your mind about that or am I just blind?

post #14 of 33

I do prefer 5.1 raw,is it normal ? it seems more natural to me

post #15 of 33
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