Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

kstuart said:

 
Yes, I see that Jason says the same thing.  If the switch has selected only one of the two (inputs that are now output), and it is passive, then why does the volume need to be at max?  You can tell that I'm not very knowledgeable at EE, but I can probably understand the explanation.

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I'll let Jason explain his product, but, no, it's not symmetric in how it is wired.

madwolfa said:

gevorg said:

Not necessarily, just a DAC with built-in digital volume control. No moving parts too, so remote control implementation should be easier.

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But but bit perfect yada yada.. May not fly with purists.

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That's the point, a proper digital volume implementation *can* be bitperfect to a point (for example by padding redbook to 24 or 32 bit), unlike analog volume pot which is not bitperfect:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

gevorg said:

That's the point, a proper digital volume implementation *can* be bitperfect to a point (for example by padding redbook to 24 or 32 bit), unlike analog volume pot which is not bitperfect:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

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Yes, I'm pretty sure my Foobar2000's volume control (64 bit float internal processing + 32 bit output) is much higher quality than any analog volume pot out there. But it's just me..

alex martin said:

   
Who says we haven't already made those decisions.  2016 should be a very interesting year.

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Hey, I'm hoping you have...but why bug Santa with my wish list when Head-Fi lets me talk right to the source?
 

gevorg said:

 

madwolfa said:

 

gevorg said:

Not necessarily, just a DAC with built-in digital volume control. No moving parts too, so remote control implementation should be easier.

Click to expand...

But but bit perfect yada yada.. May not fly with purists.

Click to expand...

That's the point, a proper digital volume implementation *can* be bitperfect to a point (for example by padding redbook to 24 or 32 bit), unlike analog volume pot which is not bitperfect:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

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That is one of many articles on bit resolution (including unfortunately "Monty") that assumes that signal-to-noise ratio is all that matters.  (Also, like many such articles, it uses resources on ADCs to comment on DACs.)
 
Barry Diament, recording and mastering engineer, comments:
 
" In more practical terms, in a 16-bit recording, one is making the most of all 16 bits when the signal is loudest -- at the top 6 dB of the possible levels (6.02 dB for those who want more precision). Now of course, with real music the signal is not always at the top of the level scale. In other words, not every part of the song is at the loudest point. Further, there are things in the background that are lower in level than things in the foreground. Instrumental harmonics (the things that differentiate a Steinway from a Baldwin or a Gibson from a Fender) are considerably lower in level and spatial cues (whether real or studio generated) are lower still.

To put it into numbers, the harmonics might be 20 dB lower in level than the loudest sounds. Spatial cues might be 40 dB lower in level. (I'm just picking the numbers arbitrarily to illustrate the point.) With a 16-bit recording, those harmonics that are 20 dB lower in level will be encoded using about 13 bits, not 16. The spatial cues that are 40 dB lower in level will be encoded using about 10-bits, not 16. This accounts for the coarsening of the sound and thinning of instrumental harmonics many have notices with 16-bit audio since the beginning.

Now let's look at the resolution of the same items with a 24-bit recording. The harmonics, at -20 would be encoded using about 21 bits. The spatial cues, at -40 would use about 18 bits. Both still exhibiting more resolution than a full level 16-bit recording. So if you make the same recording at 16/44 and at 24/44, you'll find the complexity of instrumental harmonics much better preserved on the latter. Same with the spatial cues: where the 16-bit version defocuses the space, the 24-bit version makes the room boundaries clear and easy to hear by comparison. "

gevorg said:

That's the point, a proper digital volume implementation *can* be bitperfect to a point (for example by padding redbook to 24 or 32 bit), unlike analog volume pot which is not bitperfect:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

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I guess I am not following here.I may be wrong here as I am no engineer but I believe you will still need to use some sort of Amplifier and all of schiit's amps have volume controls.. So I do not see the Advantage of a volume control being on the dac it self.
You really do not see volume controls on any other sources. Tape Deck, DVD, CD's etc. The Exception being computer software. If there is some one Who runs their headphones directly from the DAC output either SE or Balanced without any amplification at all be it internal or external  and a volume control please chime in here and keep me honest and/or teach me something.
 
The link you posted says The problem with digital volume controls is that Noise does not decrease with the volume unless the digital volume control has access to the Dacs Internal Path, It seems like a re engineering of the Yggy or any Schiit DAC for that matter to implement this and a lot of work for something that can be implemented cheaper and more effectively with far more connectivity options using an external Box. Use the Ragnarok's Volume controls system and you have perfect Channel Tracking.
 
From the Ragnaroks faq
 
"Talk to me about this relay-switched stepped attenuator thing. What is that?
It’s a volume control. Unlike the continuous, potentiometer-based volume controls in all of our other amps, it uses relays to switch in and out a set of precision resistors based on the volume setting on the front panel. The result is perfect channel tracking down to very low levels, with 64 steps of 1.2dB available at each gain level—much more than most stepped attenuators. Note that our attenuator also works just like a regular potentiometer—there are no continually-spinning encoders, but an actual knob with stops at the low end and high end of the gain."

^^ It could be useful for speaker users who run DACs directly to power amps and want a remote control option as well. Not really useful for headphone users who, like you said, use headphone amps that also function as a pre-amp. There are plenty of DACs that that have volume control built-in like the Auralic Vega, Benchmark DAC2 and Bricasti M1. Anyway, it looks like Schiit made the choice of having the pre-amp/volume control on the amp side, rather than the DAC.

The Sys is a very good volume control.  I use it to send signal from Gumby to Emotiva
AIrmotive speakers and to 64Ears ADEL A12 cIEMs which work fine straight from the DAC--in fact that's an amazing combination.  I haven't tried it but I get the impression Gumby has the power to drive efficient cans.  It's always nice to have a volume control on a DAC.  

audiobear said:

The Sys is a very good volume control.  I use it to send signal from Gumby to Emotiva
AIrmotive speakers and to 64Ears ADEL A12 cIEMs which work fine straight from the DAC--in fact that's an amazing combination.  I haven't tried it but I get the impression Gumby has the power to drive efficient cans.  It's always nice to have a volume control on a DAC.  

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Same here, I use Gumby's RCA outs to Emotiva Airmotiv 5S and it sounds amazing. Not as accurate and detailed as the balanced HD800 side, but enough to prove that speakers > headphones.

jason stoddard said:

  2015, Chapter 18:
Death (and DNR) of a Product
 
Okay, I’ve covered the death of a product before, way back in the Asgard 2 chapter. But, while Asgard died, it didn’t stay down. It rose again, an even more capable amplifier, in Asgard 2 form.
 
[...]

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I know you're going to hate me for asking this but I was considering the Asgard 2 for a while now but after reading the spec sheet for the Magni 2 Uber. I was like: Whaaa? Why would I buy the Asgard 2 now? Is there an Asgard 3 in the works? (I know you hate this question too xD)

I just want to know what exactly justifies Asgard 2's existence after Magni 2 Uber happened and why should I buy Asgard 2 and not Magni 2 Uber. Convince me. I am willing to fork the dough!
I tried to find an answer on schiit.com but no dice... =/

fighterboy89 said:

  I just want to know what exactly justifies Asgard 2's existence after Magni 2 Uber happened and why should I buy Asgard 2 and not Magni 2 Uber. Convince me. I am willing to fork the dough!
I tried to find an answer on schiit.com but no dice... =/

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It's the only fully discrete, no overall feedback, pure class A amplifier in the Schiit's lineup. If it doesn't mean anything to you, then I guess you could save some dough and just get yourself a Magni.  
 
EDIT: oh, and it stacks nicely with Bifrost Multibit...

Danger Ahead, watch out for Falling Prices,
 
That Liquid xxxx outfit and the British outfit with the knotty name are both launching products at waaaaaay lower price points.
 
It's the efficiency of the the Internet causing all this fuss or creating the vehicle for it to happen. 
 
The above outfits were able to sell at multi thousand dollar levels, as long as they didn't have stiff ( Schiit type ) competition and the power of the internet available to customers residing anywhere on this Green Planet.
 
I kinda suspect the Multi DACs were the tipping point, although things were already tipping.  
 
If Stoddard isn't Schiiting us and there is another Wave of innovation about to be released, we will probably be looking at a "Winner take all" type Market.   
 
My latitude has a couple of players able to do well here but I don't hold out much hope for the $3,000 to $4,000 headphone Amp outfits.  ( a few crumbs for them ).  
 
Watching other outfits is a good place to watch Schiit.
 
Tony in Michigan

Hey @tonykaz this system is rocking my ears tonight. Except sub a 25 yr Macallan for that glass of red and listening to Medeski Martin & Wood End of the Year Party. It is going to be hard to outperform this system. There is something very special happening with the Bifrost MB.

atomicbob said:

 
Hey @tonykaz this system is rocking my ears tonight. Except sub a 25 yr Macallan for that glass of red and listening to Medeski Martin & Wood End of the Year Party. It is going to be hard to outperform this system. There is something very special happening with the Bifrost MB.

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Very nice!
 
As much as I love a good glass of red (I'm a claret fan, though I'm not going to turn my nose up at a good Burgundy either), tonight is definitely a Scotch night.  The McCallan ME for me ... a rare indulgence.
 
And ... damnit ... as much as I am loving my Yggy/Rag combo, and haven't heard anything that bests it yet, the Cavalli stuff is awfully tempting for reasons I can't really explain!  Maybe a Carbon to start ... I could keep it at the girlfriend's place ... leave the Lyr/4490 at the office ... keep the Mojo for mobile use ... might need to buy another house or a boat as an excuse for some Woo Audio stuff ...
 
Doomed ... I'm doomed I tell ya!

torq said:

 
Very nice!
 
As much as I love a good glass of red (I'm a claret fan, though I'm not going to turn my nose up at a good Burgundy either), tonight is definitely a Scotch night.  The McCallan ME for me ... a rare indulgence.
 
And ... damnit ... as much as I am loving my Yggy/Rag combo, and haven't heard anything that bests it yet, the Cavalli stuff is awfully tempting for reasons I can't really explain!  Maybe a Carbon to start ... I could keep it at the girlfriend's place ... leave the Lyr/4490 at the office ... keep the Mojo for mobile use ... might need to buy another house or a boat as an excuse for some Woo Audio stuff ...
 
Doomed ... I'm doomed I tell ya!

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You already have a Ygg, just add a Liquid Crimson and let the auditory fun and games being. That said, there is something very special about the Bifrost MB. I have all three Schiit MB DACs and the BiMB keeps percolating to the most listened position.
 
So I only allow myself a small amount of 25 yr Macallan and reach for the 18 yr Dalmore ... the family has cleaned me out! Ooooh, those dirty guys!