muziq
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+1...also good for those of us with pets that shed. If I wanted another black shirt I'd go to Hot Topic and enjoy the self-loathing.
Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
- Thread starter Jason Stoddard
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+1...also good for those of us with pets that shed. If I wanted another black shirt I'd go to Hot Topic and enjoy the self-loathing.
Oklahoma
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So looking at the website as I might be upgrading to a Mjolnir 2 at some point. I will be going from a Lyr 2 and already have LISST and tubes to go with and the only options are to purchase with tubes or LISST; I am basically repurchasing a set of tubes that I already have. Would it be possible to order the Mjolnir 2 without tubes or LISST?
theblueprint
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Oklahoma
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I might do that when I order, it will still be a while before I do. Then again I might just order it with the LISST and have a set for both LYR 2 and Mjolnir 2...
evillamer
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@AndreYew
What if Schiit was operating like other traditional boutique audiophile company with dealers and all, how much do you think the Yggdrasil or MB Gungnir would have cost?
What if Schiit was operating like other traditional boutique audiophile company with dealers and all, how much do you think the Yggdrasil or MB Gungnir would have cost?
Baldr
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A Schiit Digital upgrade path across the model line will be proposed (and of course subject to change) in this post. There will be three sections:
What I originally did.
What has been released already according to upgrade targets.
The future direction.
What the original digital audio plan was to build the best possible D/A converter, then to migrate the technology into lower and lower price-points. This turned out to be misguided for one reason and incompatible with Schiit releases for another. What was misguided was that in order to be a truly great product, multi-bit technology was imperative. Given the twenty some year interval between my last multibit design, the design and available building blocks were completely different. From my experience with the gain system A/D converters, I knew only an industrial multi-bit D/A converter would suffice. Finally, the Motorola DSP chips we had used at Theta were on the verge of becoming obsolete – they were not recommended for new equipment design. This meant that a ******-ton of work would need to be done to get a proper design redone in the 2010 decade. What was incompatible was that the early release pattern of Schiit products was from lower to higher price-points; time was not on my side in getting the digital side of Schiit going – it would certainly not work in the order top products down to lower ones.
Given my pioneering forays into upgradable products at Theta Digital back in the 1980's, I knew I needed to prepare an upgradable line of products that, would be initially be delta sigma, and then, when the R&D for the 2010 decade on proper multibit design was done, allow for upgrades to same. This simplified the design and allowed for quick development of the products. My only real challenge was to try as many as possible delta sigma converters. Even (in particular) the most highly regarded of such converters always sounded to me like all I had to do was stand in front of a speaker driven by them to dry clean my clothes. I finally settled on the AKM line of converters with their switched cap filters as being by far the most musical, with errors of omission far more than a tendency to generate ozone.
There were two imperatives to allow room for in the original design. The first was, of course the addition of proper industrial multi-bit converters. The second was the mega-combo-burrito filter which is the only time and frequency domain optimized filter which retains all original samples and delivers uncanny imaging performance. The necessary converters and digital DSP engine not only draw significant current, but have numerous power supply rails and peripheral circuitry not necessary in the by comparison kindergarten delta sigma designs.
The first of these products to arrive was the Bifrost, which by now is out almost four years. The next was the Gungnir, which added beyond the valley of the clocks and true hard way balanced analog. Then it was a while to finish the Yggy, the full on all you can eat $2300 converter. The first trickle down was the multi-bit Gungnir, which is just now appearing in the wild. The Multibit Gungnir features the same mega-burrito filter offered at full balanced 18+18 bit much cheaper dacs (¼ the resolution) into a similar but “smaller” analog section (again, way cheaper) all powered by cap input Electrical Engineering 101 type single regulated power supplies. (You guessed it – way – way cheaper than the choke input shunt then series multiple regulated supplies in the Yggy.) In all fairness, this is a lot to pack into a box that much smaller than the Yggy. All for 54% the price of the Yggy – Such a deal! No annoying delta sigma, truly original design, happy, toe-tapping sound, and absolutely guaranteed not to dry clean your clothes if you stand in front of a speaker driven by it. Upgrades fairly priced.
So now it is time for you to downsize the numbers. What would you do for a Bifrost? Smaller mega-burrito filter? 16 bit DACs? Retail price about 27% of Yggy? Upgrade prices percentages scalable to Gungnir plus a little extra for a new multi-bit analog? Happy, toe-tapping music and no digititus!! Now that would be cool.Those who attended the recent Schiit Show don't know that they know.
Not saying that's so – but it sure is logical. It is just a whole lotta work, because the Bifrost is so much smaller than Gungnir. I would be really happy if I have it in production next spring. But I could get lucky.
That's the extent of the upgradable converters – As far as Modi, Opti-Modi, and Uber-Modi go, it is going to be difficult to put 30 pounds of Schiit in a one pound Modi, so do not hold your breath waiting for any kind of Multi-Modi – but you never know. In any event, older Modis are guaranteed NOT to be upgradable. Oh, and Loki. If there is good mojo anywhere in the world, DSD will be relegated to footnotes or perhaps museums as another failed ploy to get music lovers to rebuy their collections.
What I originally did.
What has been released already according to upgrade targets.
The future direction.
What the original digital audio plan was to build the best possible D/A converter, then to migrate the technology into lower and lower price-points. This turned out to be misguided for one reason and incompatible with Schiit releases for another. What was misguided was that in order to be a truly great product, multi-bit technology was imperative. Given the twenty some year interval between my last multibit design, the design and available building blocks were completely different. From my experience with the gain system A/D converters, I knew only an industrial multi-bit D/A converter would suffice. Finally, the Motorola DSP chips we had used at Theta were on the verge of becoming obsolete – they were not recommended for new equipment design. This meant that a ******-ton of work would need to be done to get a proper design redone in the 2010 decade. What was incompatible was that the early release pattern of Schiit products was from lower to higher price-points; time was not on my side in getting the digital side of Schiit going – it would certainly not work in the order top products down to lower ones.
Given my pioneering forays into upgradable products at Theta Digital back in the 1980's, I knew I needed to prepare an upgradable line of products that, would be initially be delta sigma, and then, when the R&D for the 2010 decade on proper multibit design was done, allow for upgrades to same. This simplified the design and allowed for quick development of the products. My only real challenge was to try as many as possible delta sigma converters. Even (in particular) the most highly regarded of such converters always sounded to me like all I had to do was stand in front of a speaker driven by them to dry clean my clothes. I finally settled on the AKM line of converters with their switched cap filters as being by far the most musical, with errors of omission far more than a tendency to generate ozone.
There were two imperatives to allow room for in the original design. The first was, of course the addition of proper industrial multi-bit converters. The second was the mega-combo-burrito filter which is the only time and frequency domain optimized filter which retains all original samples and delivers uncanny imaging performance. The necessary converters and digital DSP engine not only draw significant current, but have numerous power supply rails and peripheral circuitry not necessary in the by comparison kindergarten delta sigma designs.
The first of these products to arrive was the Bifrost, which by now is out almost four years. The next was the Gungnir, which added beyond the valley of the clocks and true hard way balanced analog. Then it was a while to finish the Yggy, the full on all you can eat $2300 converter. The first trickle down was the multi-bit Gungnir, which is just now appearing in the wild. The Multibit Gungnir features the same mega-burrito filter offered at full balanced 18+18 bit much cheaper dacs (¼ the resolution) into a similar but “smaller” analog section (again, way cheaper) all powered by cap input Electrical Engineering 101 type single regulated power supplies. (You guessed it – way – way cheaper than the choke input shunt then series multiple regulated supplies in the Yggy.) In all fairness, this is a lot to pack into a box that much smaller than the Yggy. All for 54% the price of the Yggy – Such a deal! No annoying delta sigma, truly original design, happy, toe-tapping sound, and absolutely guaranteed not to dry clean your clothes if you stand in front of a speaker driven by it. Upgrades fairly priced.
So now it is time for you to downsize the numbers. What would you do for a Bifrost? Smaller mega-burrito filter? 16 bit DACs? Retail price about 27% of Yggy? Upgrade prices percentages scalable to Gungnir plus a little extra for a new multi-bit analog? Happy, toe-tapping music and no digititus!! Now that would be cool.
Not saying that's so – but it sure is logical. It is just a whole lotta work, because the Bifrost is so much smaller than Gungnir. I would be really happy if I have it in production next spring. But I could get lucky.
That's the extent of the upgradable converters – As far as Modi, Opti-Modi, and Uber-Modi go, it is going to be difficult to put 30 pounds of Schiit in a one pound Modi, so do not hold your breath waiting for any kind of Multi-Modi – but you never know. In any event, older Modis are guaranteed NOT to be upgradable. Oh, and Loki. If there is good mojo anywhere in the world, DSD will be relegated to footnotes or perhaps museums as another failed ploy to get music lovers to rebuy their collections.
Jones Bob
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Good stuff Mike. Thanks!
theblueprint
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Can't wait to see the Bifrost MB board, it'll be interesting to see how Mike will cram some of that yggy goodness inside a smaller footprint. To me, that's truly an engineering marvel.
OddE
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bigro
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Mike, Thanks for the update. We usually are anxiously awaiting the bi weekly ramblings of a mad man on this thread. A DAC Upgrade is on my shortlist I am heavily leaning towards the Bifrost but now I have a dilemma with the release of the Multibit Gungnir. It's nice to have the option to get in to High quality audio with out selling my first born to do it. I am also happy too hear you are working on a Multibit upgrade to the Bifrost. While some of us are chomping at the bit for bifrost Multi bit goodness, I cannot imagine the black magic that needs to happen to shrink the Yggy Multibit tech enough to fit it in a Bifrost. When you do Finally Nail down the design I would sure like to read about what it took to get to the final product.I Had a chance to audition a Bifrost Uber a few weeks ago and had a grin from ear to ear the whole time. I can only Imagine what climbing the DAC ladder would be like.
On a Side Note, My Wife may be developing a secret hatred of schiit. While shopping for an entertainment stand she is looking for the cutest thing in the store. My Criteria is How much schiit can it hold. She does not seem Amused when she says "oooh that's nice" and My response is "Nope can't fit enough schiit in there".
On a Side Note, My Wife may be developing a secret hatred of schiit. While shopping for an entertainment stand she is looking for the cutest thing in the store. My Criteria is How much schiit can it hold. She does not seem Amused when she says "oooh that's nice" and My response is "Nope can't fit enough schiit in there".
artur9
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Love my Bifrost and love that you're planning to upgrade it again. Only thing better would be a cross-grade option: Bifrost to Gungnir, etc.
If I get a vote I'd say do the 16bit D/A thing. It's an easy story to tell: Bifrost 16b, Gungnir 18b and Yggdrasil 21 bit. Bifrost 75% of Gungnir which is 87.5% of Yggdrasil, if my math is correct.
artur9
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Any thoughts towards a multi-bit A/D? I got some needledrops I need to do 
Any thoughts towards a multi-bit A/D? I got some needledrops I need to do
Get a Xonar STX, or do you have a Mac/laptop infection?
artur9
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Get a Xonar STX, or do you have a Mac/laptop infection?
Sorry, I be infected. Hope you don't find it contagious.
madwolfa
Headphoneus Supremus
I'm definitely waiting for a Bifrost Multibit upgrade. I have money for Gungnir (or Yggdrasil for that matter), but I need something compact for my desk.
And I don't need balanced. I think many people are in the same position.
And I don't need balanced. I think many people are in the same position.
