taxiq
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Thought the reviewer was going to rechristen your amp the rag 'n rok, bug alas . . .
Well done.
Well done.
Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
- Thread starter Jason Stoddard
- Start date
-
- Tags
- schiit audio schiit-audio
valiant66
Headphoneus Supremus
Leaving out current amps like Emotiva's new modular power amp (starts out at 2 channels, can be upgraded to 7) [XPA Gen3], I remember there was a trend in the '80's and '90's to make integrated amps that could be bridged, and matching power amps. Thus you could buy a 35-watt receiver and use it for a year or two, then bridge it to be a 70-watt mono receiver and buy their 35-watt stereo power amp that could also be bridged to be your second 70-watt channel, thus doubling up your power.
I think NAD did a series like that, it was also pretty common amongst British manufacturers.
Edited for clarity.
45longcolt
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There's that sort of upgradability, where you can add or replace modules. But Ragnarok has a different potential - since so much of the amp is controlled by a microprocessor, there's the possibility of software or even hardware updates. Of course Schiit has tried to play that down - where a lot of components have a USB port or somesuch, there's nothing like that on Rag's back panel. Schiit apparently wants you playing music, not messing around with the innards. Be interesting to see if the 2-channel stuff continues this Spartan approach.
rdaneel
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Schiit apparently wants you playing music, not messing around with the innards. Be interesting to see if the 2-channel stuff continues this Spartan approach.
It is amusing to me to see Schiit versus AudioGD in this regard. I feel like I see a bunch of users modding/toying with AudioGD gear, but not as much with Schiit. I wonder why the nuts like us on this forum tinker so much more with one company's gear than another's. Do they believe there is more improvement to be had with one or the other? Just food for thought...
jacal01
You've just been blocked by Mr. Conviviality!
That's easy. AudioGD gear, e.g. DACs, have a lot of built-in capability for modify the output to suit your taste (jumper settings, I/O cards, driver software, etc.), along with Kingwa taking a passive approach towards all of his products customization. Schiit, OTOH, has limited variability except as periodic module updates, as well as a clear and aggressive attitude towards any user modifications voiding product warranty.
'Course I've never really seen Kingwa in action on any real warranty issues, especially those instigated by a misguided mod.
'Course I've never really seen Kingwa in action on any real warranty issues, especially those instigated by a misguided mod.
landroni
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Having read his review, I agree that this ending was somewhat non-plussed, but I think the guy was taken aback by the difficulties he encountered in measuring Ragnarok --- not an indictment of the device itself. If you look back at the impressions sections, what I see is "The Ragnarok conveyed the music with a unique and very seductive force that I had never quite experienced before, at any price." and "The Schiit Audio Ragnarok plus KEF LS50s ($1299) is the most enjoyable stereo system I've used in the 21st century.".
I'd say that this is as enthusiastic as it gets, considering Stereophile is routinely testing mortgage-priced gear...
PS And there's more... "Even if the Ragnarok were only a headphone amp or only a loudspeaker amp, it would be worth more than $1700." and "Like the classic NAD 3020 of the 1970s, the Ragnarok signals the beginning of a new Renaissance in high end audio. It is the perfect introduction to the joys of quality music reproduction in the home."
It's interesting to see Stereophile beat the same drum that Jason and Mike usually do: Ragnarok (and Yggy) are not expensive for what they do...
taxiq
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It's been my sense that the stuff that gets modded wasn't that good to begin with. Modifying a great product is like those guys in the booth "helping along" a great performance so it will sound better on poor equipment. I don't think Jason and Mike need help.
auvgeek
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I bet there are a number of guys (especially those into DDCs) who would love to mod the Yggy. The fact is, DDC technology is changing very rapidly and USB Gen3 is certainly not the last word in resolution. Given the difficulty of disassembling the case and the warranty issues, I think many would rather stick to an external USB converter. I've also heard a number of people say they might prefer a tube analog stage. But again, who is going to risk it?
My guess is people who would mod one are going to wait for a cheap used one that doesn't have the warrantee. Considering the relatively small number of used Yggys available, we just haven't hit that time yet, for most people.
johnjen
Headphoneus Supremus
Another factor concerning modding the Schiit gear is their designs are 'tight', in that there isn't a whole lot of 'extra' space to utilize.
And while there are a few 'easy' mods that can be applied, extensive changes (REALLY pushing the envelope type stuff) will leave tell tale evidence if a warranty situation were to occur.
Which means the warranty needs to have expired (as was mentioned above, ie purchased used), or the owner is willing to take full responsibility for their screwup if that were to occur.
And there is a lack of access to the schematics to evaluate what can/could/should be done in the first place.
So it's no wonder, to me anyway, that mods are not very prevalent on Schiit gear.
But that isn't to say there are none either…
JJ
And while there are a few 'easy' mods that can be applied, extensive changes (REALLY pushing the envelope type stuff) will leave tell tale evidence if a warranty situation were to occur.
Which means the warranty needs to have expired (as was mentioned above, ie purchased used), or the owner is willing to take full responsibility for their screwup if that were to occur.
And there is a lack of access to the schematics to evaluate what can/could/should be done in the first place.
So it's no wonder, to me anyway, that mods are not very prevalent on Schiit gear.
But that isn't to say there are none either…
JJ
AviP
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But that isn't to say there are none either…
See what @Noremac82 did with his Vali 2:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/790828/official-schiit-vali-2-thread/1110#post_12412326
Pictures:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/790828/official-schiit-vali-2-thread/1245#post_12481549
Ableza
Headphoneus Supremus
There is a big difference between a company aiming for hobbyists and the DIY crowd and one aiming to sell a commercial product to the general public. The former generally encourages mods and experimentation and knows that a certain percentage of their users will toast the gear and is willing to deal with that as well as the potential liability of someone killing themselves. Often this means they are a foreign company who feel shielded from liability and they don't mind dealing with the very customer-service-time-consuming "what if" or "what do I do now?" questions. The latter does not want users to deal with this insides of the boxes both because they do not want the liability and because they are a commercial company trying to make money by selling the best products they can make at the selling price point, and often they are domestic companies.
If you are a tinkerer, then the first type may be for you. If you are not, then buy from the second.
If you are a tinkerer, then the first type may be for you. If you are not, then buy from the second.
Jason Stoddard
Sponsor: Schiit Audio
2016, Chapter 7:
On Modding, Hubris and Reality
So the discussion has turned to modding, hmm?
Actually, that’s a great topic, as we wait for new products to mod. Why do some people like to mod products? Why do we actively discourage it? Are Mike and I perfect, impossible to improve upon?
In short, I don’t know, lawyers, and no, of course not, are the answers to the three preceeding questions. But that’s a heckuva short chapter, so allow me to be a bit more verbose.
And, allow me to add a bit more structure, starting with the whys and wherefores of modding, at least as I see it.
Modding: The Good and Bad
Yeah. I get it. The temptation to find some easy tweak that unleashes an even more immersive, emotional audio experience can be great. Hell, I’ve done it. The Sumo amps I use to this day are modded—I removed the input coupling caps, adding 2X the filter capacitance on the main rails, and cranked up the bias on the output stage.
And now, someone thinks they already have me in a corner. “HA!” they cry. “Why didn’t Sumo just ship the amps that way? See, I bet you do the same thing at Schiit!”
Not so fast. Sumo didn’t ship the amps that way, because of the following reasons:
At Schiit, things are different—we have no amps with input coupling caps, and if we use servos, they are designed not to have the same problem as the Sumo amps. We go crazy with filter capacitance in general, because the amps are smaller, and we have more cost to work with, since we’re operating as direct sale. And we’re not shy about making amps that run hot, since we’ve done all the calculations on capacitor life (and device derating) and know the temperatures they run at are not a problem.
Fun fact: the vast majority of the bleating you hear about “heat is the enemy of electronics” comes from one component: capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors are rated at some modest lifetime, at some specified temperature. For example: 3000 hours at 85 degrees C. This causes some people to freak out and go, “Whoa, only 3000 hours, hell, I run 3000 hours a year, it’s gonna fall apart/explode/kill my cat!” Wrong. Read the rating again. Then go here: http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx, plug in the datasheet numbers, and you’ll get numbers like 65,456 hours at 45 degrees C (or, a typical capacitor temperature in an Asgard 2). That’s 7.5 years of being continuously on.
But I digress. To get back on point, I get it. A few small tweaks for much better sonic performance…what’s not to like?
And there are entire communities which support modding, and encourage modders to go farther. I’ve mentioned diyaudio.com before, and I’ll mention it again. Many people come there as modders, and end up making their own products from scratch—or even designing them.
And, honestly, I think communities like diyaudio are where some of the most interesting ideas first see the light of day. The rapid feedback, iteration, simulation, building, and testing of audio stuff makes the corporate world look pretty staid and safe in comparison. Things can happen faster there. Designs can be worked out faster there. Commercial products have come out of the community. Some really, really interesting ideas are being explored. Hell, Nelson Pass is an active member.
Bottom line: if you want to learn what makes stuff tick, and what you can do to make the products better, I recommend you take up residence at diyaudio.com.
In the audience, someone is nodding knowingly, but wearing a cynical smile. “Well, if you’re so cool with modding, how come you go out of your way to discourage it on your products?” they ask.
Good question. I already gave you the short answer: lawyers. But you deserve a longer answer. So here you go:
Aside: Some may see #5 above as a distasteful corporate CYA. I see it as part of our corporate responsibility to ensure we are around if you ever need service. A company killed by a lawsuit can’t sell you matching product, give you advice on your current products, or fix your broken gear. So excuse me if I draw a hard line on that one.
So, Are Designers Perfect?
Of course not. If we were, there wouldn’t be Series 2 products, or Ubers, or Multibits, or Gen 3. Simple as that.
Here’s the reality: everything is a learning process.
There are a million ways to design a product, so the act of design is one of exploration. I’ve written several chapters on how products twist and turn and change on their way to production. We start down one path, find that it dead-ends, and try another. We change and tweak and measure and iterate. In the end, we hope to end up with a product you’ll enjoy. But there ain’t no possibility that it’s perfect.
Producing a product teaches us even more. Sometimes catastrophically, as when a first run has to be scrapped. We’ve been there. But usually it’s more gradual. There’s a better way to put it together. Customers have commented on this feature, or that annoyance. Parts come and go—good parts reach end of life, and better parts appear. That’s why it’s not unusual to have a couple of small running changes in a product over the course of its lifetime. These small changes need to be done for a good reason (such as parts going obsolete), and they have to be documented. Because, in the future, products will need to be serviced. Having a hundred variations isn’t conducive to serviceability.
Going to a next-generation product should be more than just a collection of small, running changes—it should be a significant re-design that seriously augments the product. Like adding functionality (gain switching, preamp outputs) or a complete re-think (tube or solid-state modularity) or even radical new directions. The next generation should be informed by the current generation, by customer feedback, by market realities…but again, there ain’t no way they’ll be perfect.
So, yeah. Lots of lessons. Good designers take note of these lessons and use them to improve their products.
The smug dude is back there again, arms crossed. “But if they’re not perfect, that means the products can be improved. Hence, modding.”
Ahem. Not so fast. Add the word “easily” between “can” and “be” and the phrase doesn’t necessarily ring true. Anything can be improved. But if it takes an entire redesign, that ain’t easy…and that ain’t modding.
Can Designs Be Easily Improved?
That’s really the question, isn’t it? And I’d like to say, “No, not with well-designed products.”
But my opinion means nothing to someone who wants to swap a fuse or a socketed op-amp or attach magical damping dots to the components. They’re going to do that anyway, because they’re relatively easy. When you get down to swapping coupling caps, playing with bias, and adding bypassing, you’re in the hot-soldering-iron crowd, which is much more hard-core—what they consider easy may seem very daunting to many modders.
And, in reality, such a quick, facile, and dismissive answer doesn’t really serve you very well, does it? So I thought I’d do something kinda silly…go through our products and discuss modding possibilities in a stream-of-consciousness manner.
Now, this doesn’t necessarily include all products, nor is it likely to be 100% inclusive on what can be done to them. Nor is it an endorsement of hacking up our products. Remember, No User Serviceable Parts Inside.
Magni 2 and Uber. Ha. We’ve already done the mods on Magni 2 Uber, or at least the ones that matter. The Uber has a better gain stage—specifically, a complementary-driven VAS—than the Magni 2. Yes, this is well beyond a mod you’d typically see. We also added more filter capacitance, preamp outs—a functional mod—and some cosmetics. Why didn’t these mods make it into Magni 2? Because they increase cost. What about op-amps? Well, the only op-amp in Magni 2 and Uber is for the DC servo, so swapping it out should net you zero sonic gain. Also, it’s surface-mount, so it’s a pain to swap. How about coupling caps? There aren’t any—not input, not output, not interstage. How about a linear supply? No, Magni 2 and Uber use a linear supply with an AC-input wall-wart. So unless you’re going to reengineer the gain stage, there’s not much to get excited about in terms of easy mods.
Asgard 2. Asgard 2 does use an interstage coupling capacitor. Would swapping it out improve performance? Maybe. We chose the one we use for sonics, size, and price. Adding a pair of $85 capacitors to it might make it better, but then you’re talking about a much more expensive amp. Turn up the bias? It’s already Class A, and it runs very hot. Not a good idea—and not adjustable unless you swap components. You’d better know what you’re doing there. Oh, and the op-amp? It’s just a DC servo.
Valhalla 2. Valhalla 2 uses both an interstage coupling capacitor and output capacitor. This is typical of tube amps. Good luck getting anything better in the space available, though. If you do, could it make things better? I don’t know. This one is much more space-constrained. Re-engineer it to eliminate the output capacitors? Sure, that’s possible, but that’s a whole new power supply, down to the transformers—and a more expensive amp. Personally, I’d leave it alone and think about maybe some fancy input tubes (WE417s or 5670s with a pinout adapter?)
Lyr 2. Lyr 2 also uses an interstage coupling capacitor. Same caveats as on Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2. Lyr is pretty packed. The op-amps? DC servo, again. Don’t bother swapping it. Turning up the bias? Only if you know what you’re doing, and what you’re measuring…and you have a fan. Lyr 2 runs hot. I’d also look at those WE417s or 5670s with an adapter.
Modi 2 and Uber. Yes, these use op-amp gain stages, so you’d think most people would be all over that. However, you’d better know what you’re doing: Modi 2 uses a rail-to-rail op-amp (and requires one). Both use surface-mount components, so there are no easy swaps. Personally, I’d do the Scotch Mod and call it a day (a couple of glasses, things sound much better…)
Bifrost Multibit. Yeah, yeah, lots of people would like to have a discrete gain stage. I’ve explained why that isn’t happening. Cliff’s notes edition: space. So why not swap the op-amps? Well, because they are extremely specific to the design, and they’re also surface-mount. Yes, I know, we are no fun at all. Personally, I’d be happy the Bifrost is modular and upgradable, so when we figure out some new things, I don’t have to throw the product away. Now, don’t go hoping for a discrete stage…again, notgonnahappenland.com. Because space.
So what do we have, from this partial survey of our products? A whole lot of stuff that doesn’t have much in the way of easy mods. Sure, they could be made better…by re-engineering the product, and/or changing the retail price significantly. But those aren’t mods. Or at least they aren’t mods that will make people very happy.
“Wait a sec!” Someone is asking. “What about the expensive products? You skipped over them entirely!”
Yeah, and Wyrd, and Mani, and SYS (fun fact: someone recently asked if we could put an RK27112 pot in a SYS—those of you who know the measurements of this pot are laughing real hard right now). Don’t panic. There’s no big conspiracy. Like I said, this is about representative products, not everything…
…no, you know what? Okay. Let’s talk mods on Ragnarok and Yggdrasil. First, get good at firmware for PIC 24F microcontrollers. In the case of Yggy, learn to program Analog Devices SHARC DSPs. Then consider: no coupling caps, no DC servo, insane amounts of filter capacitance, heroic power supplies (including a shunt-regulated, choke-input analog supply on Yggy). And that’s only the start. That’s why modding, in any meaningful way, is going to be very difficult on the pricey products. Sit back. Relax. Have a drink.
And remind yourself: Yggy is modular.
So What Do I Do If I Want To Mod?
If you want to mod, nothing we say is going to stop you, right? So I think, in general, my advice would be to spend some time trying to understand what you’re modding, how it could be made better, and if modding it has a good chance of success.
Yes, I know. This takes technical knowledge. It’s not as simple as just swapping parts. But it does give you a much better chance of being happy with your mods.
Now, this is still gonna be problematic in the case of our products, since we don’t provide schematics, don’t discuss possible mods, don’t provide technical support for them, don’t get into the deep whys and wherefores of our designs, and don’t provide warranty service for modified products.
So, here’s another idea: build something yourself. DIYaudio has many well-documented community designs that have schematics, layouts, even PC boards and parts lists. There’s also a bunch of people who have already modded the product and weighed in. You could build yourself a Pass project, or a CFA amplifier, or a bunch of other things. And you can modify it to your heart’s content.
Or, choose a popular kit amplifier and build that. They’re usually very well documented, and easy to modify.
In both cases, you’ll be learning a whole lot about electronics…including what mods matter, and why. Which (call me crazy), I think is a whole lot more interesting than swapping parts randomly, and hoping for the best.
Happy learning…building…and modding!
On Modding, Hubris and Reality
So the discussion has turned to modding, hmm?
Actually, that’s a great topic, as we wait for new products to mod. Why do some people like to mod products? Why do we actively discourage it? Are Mike and I perfect, impossible to improve upon?
In short, I don’t know, lawyers, and no, of course not, are the answers to the three preceeding questions. But that’s a heckuva short chapter, so allow me to be a bit more verbose.
And, allow me to add a bit more structure, starting with the whys and wherefores of modding, at least as I see it.
Modding: The Good and Bad
Yeah. I get it. The temptation to find some easy tweak that unleashes an even more immersive, emotional audio experience can be great. Hell, I’ve done it. The Sumo amps I use to this day are modded—I removed the input coupling caps, adding 2X the filter capacitance on the main rails, and cranked up the bias on the output stage.
And now, someone thinks they already have me in a corner. “HA!” they cry. “Why didn’t Sumo just ship the amps that way? See, I bet you do the same thing at Schiit!”
Not so fast. Sumo didn’t ship the amps that way, because of the following reasons:
- With no input coupling cap, the DC servo, as implemented, acting against the varying DC offset of a preamp (or, worse, a passive preamp) causes whooshing, flatulent noises when you turn the volume pot. I chose to accept this. Most customers wouldn’t. Note: a different implementation of the DC servo would not exhibit this problem.
- 2X the filter capacitance would put a serious dent in the amp cost, especially when they were thin margins to start. We didn’t want to raise prices, and, even back then, I knew my big-filter-cap fetish probably didn’t make much difference anyway.
- Turning up the bias turns the amp into a big space heater. Again, I chose to accept this, whereas our customers probably wouldn’t—at least not if the amp was billed as Class AB, rather than Class A.
At Schiit, things are different—we have no amps with input coupling caps, and if we use servos, they are designed not to have the same problem as the Sumo amps. We go crazy with filter capacitance in general, because the amps are smaller, and we have more cost to work with, since we’re operating as direct sale. And we’re not shy about making amps that run hot, since we’ve done all the calculations on capacitor life (and device derating) and know the temperatures they run at are not a problem.
Fun fact: the vast majority of the bleating you hear about “heat is the enemy of electronics” comes from one component: capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors are rated at some modest lifetime, at some specified temperature. For example: 3000 hours at 85 degrees C. This causes some people to freak out and go, “Whoa, only 3000 hours, hell, I run 3000 hours a year, it’s gonna fall apart/explode/kill my cat!” Wrong. Read the rating again. Then go here: http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx, plug in the datasheet numbers, and you’ll get numbers like 65,456 hours at 45 degrees C (or, a typical capacitor temperature in an Asgard 2). That’s 7.5 years of being continuously on.
But I digress. To get back on point, I get it. A few small tweaks for much better sonic performance…what’s not to like?
And there are entire communities which support modding, and encourage modders to go farther. I’ve mentioned diyaudio.com before, and I’ll mention it again. Many people come there as modders, and end up making their own products from scratch—or even designing them.
And, honestly, I think communities like diyaudio are where some of the most interesting ideas first see the light of day. The rapid feedback, iteration, simulation, building, and testing of audio stuff makes the corporate world look pretty staid and safe in comparison. Things can happen faster there. Designs can be worked out faster there. Commercial products have come out of the community. Some really, really interesting ideas are being explored. Hell, Nelson Pass is an active member.
Bottom line: if you want to learn what makes stuff tick, and what you can do to make the products better, I recommend you take up residence at diyaudio.com.
In the audience, someone is nodding knowingly, but wearing a cynical smile. “Well, if you’re so cool with modding, how come you go out of your way to discourage it on your products?” they ask.
Good question. I already gave you the short answer: lawyers. But you deserve a longer answer. So here you go:
- Modding doesn’t always make things better. One of the most popular mods (mentioned on the Vali 2 thread) is op-amp swapping. This is not generally a good idea, unless you know what you’re doing and have some basic test equipment to verify your exotic op-amp is not oscillating. (And, since most of the op-amps in Schiit products are simply DC servos, it won’t really do anything, anyway.)
- Effective modding frequently requires engineering knowledge. Beyond test equipment as mentioned above, engineering knowledge is important for many truly effective mods. Using the Vali 2 example above, the single bestest mod you could do for it would be to swap the PNP transistor that’s convolved with the tube for one with higher gain and better linearity. Except, well, I already picked the highest-gain transistor with the best linearity, at least among available devices. If something else shows up, well then, maybe it’s time for a running change (see below.) Beyond that, did you know there’s an optimal bias point for BJT outputs, but turning up the bias on MOSFETs only makes them more linear? Did you know that op-amp is just a DC servo or part of the protection system…or not even in the circuit? Did you know that capacitor wasn’t even part of the signal path, so installing a fancy one will make no difference? Did you know why the designer chose the components he or she did? Hint: it’s not always about cost.
- Modding can hurt you. A decent amount of our gear has rail voltages that range from 200-250V. Poking around op-amp circuits that might have +/-15V on it is one thing. Prodding high rail voltages is not a great idea, because shocks of that magnitude can hurt you pretty bad.
- Modding will piss you off when we won’t service the product. Any modification immediately voids the warranty. And, any modified product we receive for service has to be returned to stock before servicing (and we do get a fair bit of it). Depending on the mods, this can be very costly.
- Encouraging modding increases the chances we get sued into the ground. There’s a phrase screened on the back of every one of our products. It’s called “no user serviceable parts inside.” This means, “don’t open this box.” If we ever say “hey, sure, you can open it up to change a fuse, swap caps, whatever,” then we have invalidated that phrase. So, in the Litigious States of America, when someone decides to mod their Valhalla 2…when it’s plugged in…while they are taking a bath…(don’t laugh)…and their estate throws a lawsuit our way, one of the things their data forensics guys will be looking for is if we have ever implied that opening up our product and working on it was a good idea. If they find one email that invalidates the “no user serviceable parts inside” phrase, we are much more likely to be screwed.
Aside: Some may see #5 above as a distasteful corporate CYA. I see it as part of our corporate responsibility to ensure we are around if you ever need service. A company killed by a lawsuit can’t sell you matching product, give you advice on your current products, or fix your broken gear. So excuse me if I draw a hard line on that one.
So, Are Designers Perfect?
Of course not. If we were, there wouldn’t be Series 2 products, or Ubers, or Multibits, or Gen 3. Simple as that.
Here’s the reality: everything is a learning process.
There are a million ways to design a product, so the act of design is one of exploration. I’ve written several chapters on how products twist and turn and change on their way to production. We start down one path, find that it dead-ends, and try another. We change and tweak and measure and iterate. In the end, we hope to end up with a product you’ll enjoy. But there ain’t no possibility that it’s perfect.
Producing a product teaches us even more. Sometimes catastrophically, as when a first run has to be scrapped. We’ve been there. But usually it’s more gradual. There’s a better way to put it together. Customers have commented on this feature, or that annoyance. Parts come and go—good parts reach end of life, and better parts appear. That’s why it’s not unusual to have a couple of small running changes in a product over the course of its lifetime. These small changes need to be done for a good reason (such as parts going obsolete), and they have to be documented. Because, in the future, products will need to be serviced. Having a hundred variations isn’t conducive to serviceability.
Going to a next-generation product should be more than just a collection of small, running changes—it should be a significant re-design that seriously augments the product. Like adding functionality (gain switching, preamp outputs) or a complete re-think (tube or solid-state modularity) or even radical new directions. The next generation should be informed by the current generation, by customer feedback, by market realities…but again, there ain’t no way they’ll be perfect.
So, yeah. Lots of lessons. Good designers take note of these lessons and use them to improve their products.
The smug dude is back there again, arms crossed. “But if they’re not perfect, that means the products can be improved. Hence, modding.”
Ahem. Not so fast. Add the word “easily” between “can” and “be” and the phrase doesn’t necessarily ring true. Anything can be improved. But if it takes an entire redesign, that ain’t easy…and that ain’t modding.
Can Designs Be Easily Improved?
That’s really the question, isn’t it? And I’d like to say, “No, not with well-designed products.”
But my opinion means nothing to someone who wants to swap a fuse or a socketed op-amp or attach magical damping dots to the components. They’re going to do that anyway, because they’re relatively easy. When you get down to swapping coupling caps, playing with bias, and adding bypassing, you’re in the hot-soldering-iron crowd, which is much more hard-core—what they consider easy may seem very daunting to many modders.
And, in reality, such a quick, facile, and dismissive answer doesn’t really serve you very well, does it? So I thought I’d do something kinda silly…go through our products and discuss modding possibilities in a stream-of-consciousness manner.
Now, this doesn’t necessarily include all products, nor is it likely to be 100% inclusive on what can be done to them. Nor is it an endorsement of hacking up our products. Remember, No User Serviceable Parts Inside.
Magni 2 and Uber. Ha. We’ve already done the mods on Magni 2 Uber, or at least the ones that matter. The Uber has a better gain stage—specifically, a complementary-driven VAS—than the Magni 2. Yes, this is well beyond a mod you’d typically see. We also added more filter capacitance, preamp outs—a functional mod—and some cosmetics. Why didn’t these mods make it into Magni 2? Because they increase cost. What about op-amps? Well, the only op-amp in Magni 2 and Uber is for the DC servo, so swapping it out should net you zero sonic gain. Also, it’s surface-mount, so it’s a pain to swap. How about coupling caps? There aren’t any—not input, not output, not interstage. How about a linear supply? No, Magni 2 and Uber use a linear supply with an AC-input wall-wart. So unless you’re going to reengineer the gain stage, there’s not much to get excited about in terms of easy mods.
Asgard 2. Asgard 2 does use an interstage coupling capacitor. Would swapping it out improve performance? Maybe. We chose the one we use for sonics, size, and price. Adding a pair of $85 capacitors to it might make it better, but then you’re talking about a much more expensive amp. Turn up the bias? It’s already Class A, and it runs very hot. Not a good idea—and not adjustable unless you swap components. You’d better know what you’re doing there. Oh, and the op-amp? It’s just a DC servo.
Valhalla 2. Valhalla 2 uses both an interstage coupling capacitor and output capacitor. This is typical of tube amps. Good luck getting anything better in the space available, though. If you do, could it make things better? I don’t know. This one is much more space-constrained. Re-engineer it to eliminate the output capacitors? Sure, that’s possible, but that’s a whole new power supply, down to the transformers—and a more expensive amp. Personally, I’d leave it alone and think about maybe some fancy input tubes (WE417s or 5670s with a pinout adapter?)
Lyr 2. Lyr 2 also uses an interstage coupling capacitor. Same caveats as on Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2. Lyr is pretty packed. The op-amps? DC servo, again. Don’t bother swapping it. Turning up the bias? Only if you know what you’re doing, and what you’re measuring…and you have a fan. Lyr 2 runs hot. I’d also look at those WE417s or 5670s with an adapter.
Modi 2 and Uber. Yes, these use op-amp gain stages, so you’d think most people would be all over that. However, you’d better know what you’re doing: Modi 2 uses a rail-to-rail op-amp (and requires one). Both use surface-mount components, so there are no easy swaps. Personally, I’d do the Scotch Mod and call it a day (a couple of glasses, things sound much better…)
Bifrost Multibit. Yeah, yeah, lots of people would like to have a discrete gain stage. I’ve explained why that isn’t happening. Cliff’s notes edition: space. So why not swap the op-amps? Well, because they are extremely specific to the design, and they’re also surface-mount. Yes, I know, we are no fun at all. Personally, I’d be happy the Bifrost is modular and upgradable, so when we figure out some new things, I don’t have to throw the product away. Now, don’t go hoping for a discrete stage…again, notgonnahappenland.com. Because space.
So what do we have, from this partial survey of our products? A whole lot of stuff that doesn’t have much in the way of easy mods. Sure, they could be made better…by re-engineering the product, and/or changing the retail price significantly. But those aren’t mods. Or at least they aren’t mods that will make people very happy.
“Wait a sec!” Someone is asking. “What about the expensive products? You skipped over them entirely!”
Yeah, and Wyrd, and Mani, and SYS (fun fact: someone recently asked if we could put an RK27112 pot in a SYS—those of you who know the measurements of this pot are laughing real hard right now). Don’t panic. There’s no big conspiracy. Like I said, this is about representative products, not everything…
…no, you know what? Okay. Let’s talk mods on Ragnarok and Yggdrasil. First, get good at firmware for PIC 24F microcontrollers. In the case of Yggy, learn to program Analog Devices SHARC DSPs. Then consider: no coupling caps, no DC servo, insane amounts of filter capacitance, heroic power supplies (including a shunt-regulated, choke-input analog supply on Yggy). And that’s only the start. That’s why modding, in any meaningful way, is going to be very difficult on the pricey products. Sit back. Relax. Have a drink.
And remind yourself: Yggy is modular.
So What Do I Do If I Want To Mod?
If you want to mod, nothing we say is going to stop you, right? So I think, in general, my advice would be to spend some time trying to understand what you’re modding, how it could be made better, and if modding it has a good chance of success.
Yes, I know. This takes technical knowledge. It’s not as simple as just swapping parts. But it does give you a much better chance of being happy with your mods.
Now, this is still gonna be problematic in the case of our products, since we don’t provide schematics, don’t discuss possible mods, don’t provide technical support for them, don’t get into the deep whys and wherefores of our designs, and don’t provide warranty service for modified products.
So, here’s another idea: build something yourself. DIYaudio has many well-documented community designs that have schematics, layouts, even PC boards and parts lists. There’s also a bunch of people who have already modded the product and weighed in. You could build yourself a Pass project, or a CFA amplifier, or a bunch of other things. And you can modify it to your heart’s content.
Or, choose a popular kit amplifier and build that. They’re usually very well documented, and easy to modify.
In both cases, you’ll be learning a whole lot about electronics…including what mods matter, and why. Which (call me crazy), I think is a whole lot more interesting than swapping parts randomly, and hoping for the best.
Happy learning…building…and modding!
senorx12562
500+ Head-Fier
One of my favorite chapters so far Jason. The way I see it, if I want the best results with anything, I do myself the things I'm good at, i.e., things that someone else might hire me to do, and hire experts to do the things not in my wheelhouse. All this requires is honesty when evaluating my own skills, or, as Dirty Harry once said," A man's gotta know his limitations." Experts can do things better, cheaper, and more efficiently, leaving me more time to do things I like and am good at and leaving me with better results all around. You guys, among others, are my audio experts, and I've been very happy with every job I've hired you to do. I think the results speak for themselves.Why would I screw around with success? I want stuff I don't have to mod. Cheers.
Ableza
Headphoneus Supremus
Excellent chapter, with this line: "So, here’s another idea: build something yourself." being the best advice a company could give concerning this area.
This reminds me of my time spent racing Porsches. They are absolutely amazing pieces of engineering from the factory. Can they be improved? They can be modified to go faster, corner harder and brake later - yes. It isn't easy and it isn't cheap and there are tradeoffs in sport that wouldn't work on the street.
You can't drop a K&N air filter in a 911 and expect a 50hp boost.
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