johnjen said:

  My 2¢
State of the Art gear ALWAYS has issues, for someone.
Of course the same can be said for any gear, but SotA gear usually has a 'generous' serving of these types of issues.  
They don't exist to piss people off, but because in order to reach these degrees of sonic precision, certain compromises, or choices, were made in the design and implementation of the desire to push the SotA in new directions.  
And that is the point of a SotA device to push the envelope, to provide something that is unique.
 
This is nothing new nor unusual in any way.
And make no mistake Jggy IS a SotA DAC.
It comes from deep SotA roots and for those who have not ventured into these rarefied heights before, well there are and always have been certain requirements in order to play in this portion of the audio spectrum.
 
If the details surronding ANY piece of gear don't match your requirements then as JS states "If this doesn't work for you, I totally understand."
We're talking expectations here, some are realistic while others, not so much.
 
And since Jggy is a SotA DAC, it has it's strengths and weaknesses, just like ANY piece of gear does.
And like any SotA device there are 'costs' associated with 'living' with it.
Not to mention getting the most out of the device (aka tweaking it).
 
You either are willing and able to come to terms with this, or not.
This isn't rocket science (well the Jggy is) so it boils down to, you can either accept these strengths and weaknesses or rail against these realities.
The realities aren't going to change, which leaves it up to you.
 
IOW get over it.
Find another DAC that does meet your needs and enjoy your music…
 
That is after all what the real goal is after all, isn't it?
Enjoyment of music…
 
JJ

Click to expand...

Excellent post JohnJen.

Just my .02 - I cannot imagine making a decision on what a high-end DAC, like the Yggy is capable of in any showroom I've been in.  There are so many variables that you cannot develop a realistic "control," especially when you have, maybe 10 minutes with it.   As to leaving a DAC on, etc., hell my ECD-1 has not been turned off, except for maybe one or two long out of town trips, for 9 years now.  Why would you turn off something that draws a relative handful of watts, anyway?  
 
As to new component burn-in issues, I reviewed the Gungnir (on its own thread in this forum) a month or so ago.  It took me nearly the FULL "try it at home" period that Schiit GENEROUSLY extends us to make a final decision on whether to keep it or wait for the Yggy.  It finally stabilized into what I believe to be a stasis of its sound capability at just about 6 days - continuously on, and running HD Radio through it overnight with the preamp muted - long listening sessions during the days.  It was competing against my Steve Nugent-turbomodded older ECD-1 high-end DAC, and it BESTED it in a few areas.  I was pretty close to keeping it, but many HOURS into very extensive listening sessions, during which I had COMPLETE control over every aspect of the testing experience from the selection of source material to speakers, it lost out in a key area that I could, absolutely, repeatably, be sure about.
 
Hence, I'm one of those eager folks, hanging on every word on this new DAC.  I, for one, will not make any kind of decisions based on anything less than the experience of a reviewer who, in their own audio environment,  and over a respectable period of time with the Yggy, puts forth their impressions. 

I've a question for Mike or Jason, I apologize if this has already been answered. Let's suppose that I live in an ideal room, with perfect temperature, humidity and so on. Now, I'm going to keep Ragnarok and Yggdrasil on all the time. I would listen to them about 3 hours a day, every day, with heapdhones, at normal volume (typical usage). Question is: how much should I expect from Rag and Ygg in terms of lifespan? 5-10-15+ years? Thank you.

7ryder said:

  I'm curious, will you keep the dedicated PC you plan on building powered up all the time?  

Click to expand...

No I will be turning it off. It will be on only when I'm using it. 
 
I could go through a few weeks of having the Yggy turned on all the time if it eventually got to a stage where it would only need a half hour or hour warm up but on all the time indefinitely - that's a no no for me. I will wait it out for a few months and see what others say and make a decision then but I will definitely give the yggy a chance - i just really wanna hear one and am determined to do so now

purrin said:

   
To clarify, If you are NOT concerned about leaving the Yggy on all of the time, then obviously, it is non-issue for you.
 
If you think what I am saying about the Yggy needing this time to sound its best is BS, then please assume I am full of ****, and do not buy it.

Click to expand...

 
Actually there is another option. I can think what you are saying is BS and buy the Yggy anyway. And, live happily ever after. LOL

purrin said:

   
There are ways to control / calibrate impressions at meets. Look for times that are quiet. Come in the early morning, or wait until the meet dies town and stack **** up to compare. Use the same set of reference recordings over and over again. Know how the amp sounds in terms of tonal balance and resolving capabilities to isolate the DAC's characteristics. Know what the listeners' sonic preferences are. Ask the listener what other gear he has heard and under what circumstances. Ask the listener what headphones and specific masters of recordings - he was using. Everything must be relative and controlled to each other as much as possible.
 
 
Finally, there are people I trust more than others. Usually people I have pm'd and have found common ground on shared experiences with gear. If what I say correlates 15% to own experience, by all means do not listen to me. If what I say correlates 80% to your own experience, then maybe give me a little bit more weight than random dude at meet with random headphones and random recordings.

Click to expand...

there are peoples opinions here on headfi that i value - yours is one. 
 
I will give the yggy the time and attention it deserves - hopefully I can audition it in my own house for a few weeks - that would be Ideal 
I will review the Hugo TT and hold off on buying anything until I get to hear the yggy properly - then ill make a decision. If this takes a few months the so be it. 

mr rick said:

   
Actually there is another option. I can think what you are saying is BS and buy the Yggy anyway. And, live happily ever after. LOL

Click to expand...

 
Yes, that is true. I'm fine as long as people don't buy the Yggy and tell me that it sounded grainy, harsh, unresolving, and closed in after 2 hours from the box.

purrin said:

   
Yes, that is true. I'm fine as long as people don't buy the Yggy and tell me that it sounded grainy, harsh, unresolving, and closed in after 2 hours from the box.

Click to expand...

I don't buy my Head-Fi gear based on someone eases opinion. I do my own due diligence and proceed accordingly. So, you have no worries. 

I also do my own due diligence, which almost always includes other peoples' opinions.

I value Purrin's opinions because he made me a believer after hearing with my very own ears.
 
I jumped the gun and bought myself a Theta DS Pro Progeny v. A off eBay (there is another one up for sale, not a v. A) and have been enjoying it WAY more than the Bifrost Uber, in fact I haven't listened to the Uber more than once since I got the Progeny.
 
It is now a $500 stand for my Asgard 2 and heat dissipater to keep my Progeny nice and cool and my Asgard 2 elevated.
 
The 3D soundstage is real, detail is there without digital harshness. I'm listening to Jane Says by Jane's Addiction from Nothing's Shocking and then just switched it up to Jay Z "Regrets" from Reasonable Doubt. Both are equally enjoyable and the Progeny's DSP filter presents a soundstage that is realistic and smooth and shows ambient cues like the more expensive DACs I heard at CanJam 2015 such as the Lampizator Level 4.
 
What a great $276 purchase. What kind of $276 will get you a product that has two separate transformers and modern copycat designs? oops I forgot the Progeny cost between $995-1200 back in 1994, which is roughly equivalent to $1200-1500 today. *on a side note going back to 1995 brings me back to my early childhood years I recall watching the "Goofy Movie" which was an animated film by Disney and hearing my dad play Dire Straits on his cassette player in the backyard. I was only 3 years old by the way
 
just listened to Miles Davis "So What" from a 180g vinyl rip and nearly fell asleep it was so smooth. I could care less about tubes and whatnot this is just magical. Next Head-fi members meet I really hope to get the Theta DAC on a table for people to hear it
 

Berkley Alpha DAC below
 

argo duck said:

Bemused by this issue. Maybe I've missed something. I have assumed the phrase "to sound its best" means 'in order to extract the last possible drop of super-performance'. As numerous real life factors can stop us 'hearing at our best' I really doubt I would notice the difference between Yggy at 99% of its best versus 99.99% - most of the time.

OTOH, if it's being claimed Yggy needs X-days warmup because until then it sounds like crap compared to 90% of all other DACs then this would certainly be an issue for anyone who can't or won't leave it turned on. But I really don't believe this is what's being said?!

Click to expand...

 
Which part of 'thin and grainy and lacking plankton' at the 12 hour mark excites you ? What part of 'If you arent prepared to leave it on 24/7, dont buy it' isnt clear to you ?
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream/3405#post_11460635
 
Personally I'd prefer to focus on what it sounds like at 48 hours than what it sounds like at 12, but I may not be in the majority on that stance. You'll forgive me if I seem a little strident on this issue, but I believe I was pooh-poohed on this in a post from sleep-deprived Currawong during CANJAM:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream/3345#post_11455796
 
As for how it sounds cold or warm: Seriously, who gives a ****? Do so if you buy your own. The real unicorn is the argument itself.
 
Clearly, Amos, people do give a ******* - quite a few people - but I agree with what Jason said earlier : at least listen to the thing before forming any opinions. I appreciate that you'd endured a long-haul flight followed by a big day and a relatively sleepless night so I'll leave that exchange as it stands. 
 
The kicker here is that I actually agree with purrin and Mike - leave the bloody thing on ALL THE TIME - I leave my Oppo BDP-105D on all the time for music and movies and that's not held in terribly high esteem by the anti-SABRE camp here. Mike gave a host of technical reasons as to why some of us might prefer to leave the Yggy on and I havent seen a single rebuttal from anyone with any genuine knowledge of engineering to any of his points:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream/3345#post_11455570
 
Finally, it's interesting that there are some here who have hung on purrin's every utterance since roughly 1990 (!) who appear to have had a conniption ('major balls', indeed.. ) when they were asked to swallow one, relatively bitter pill in exchange for a greatly improved listening experience. Suddenly the Messiah has asked us to stop eating red meat on Fridays and we're off to find another religion ? What - you either respect his opinions - along with Mike and Jason's - or you don't. I completely disagree with his assessment of the original Hugo but I can see that the guy lives, eats, sleeps and breathes this hobby : if what he has to say suddenly curdles your milk then perhaps it's time to find another thread to air your grievances. There is a Yggy thread for those who have an issue with the product and there's a Sound Science forum for those who have an issue with warmup/burn-in on solid-state devices. I've had a dig at his Messiah status several times, but he's heard a hell of a lot more gear than I'm ever likely to - throw in the ability to articulate what he's hearing and I cant ignore this thread or the OP's often blunt opinions. 
 
Someone commented a while back that this wasnt a thread about the Yggy, rather a thread for general discussion around DACs - I'm afraid that isnt the way I read the OP in late March 2015. Sigma-delta bad, R2R good - if you're prepared to make a relatively small commitment to getting the best out of it. I stated from the start that the shipped cost of the Yggy would be beyond my means, leaving me with those nasty s-d offerings, but such is life. For those of you who live in the US and do have 2300 dollars, I think Mike's previous run at a statement DAC cost something in the order of $8500 in 1995 dollars : do the math. 
 
I wish the team at Schiit all the best with the Yggy and the rest of you a good day. 

I just leave my DAC on all the time cause it doesn't have an on or off switch. Better to keep it plugged in and always warmed up.

jason stoddard said:

  Guys, I'm sure Mike will chime in here, but a couple of comments from my side:
 
1. I think the warm-up thing is overblown. Really. That said, why didn't we run it for a million years? Because we just got boards from the PCB assembly house on Thursday. It is the first 1.0-level product (actually manufactured, rather than hand-assembled.)
 
2. That said, it does sound best when left on. If this doesn't work for you, I totally understand.
 
3. If you think that anything could be told from a 1-10 minute listen in the howling 90dB ambient, 85 degree temperature room we were in at the show (most rooms were much more relaxed, quieter, and cooler), especially since most listeners did not bring their own music, and were relying on an unfamiliar system, I think you need to sit back and reflect on that.
 
4. Similarly, I encourage you to try the DACs you're considering for yourself, rather than making snap decisions based on hearsay. Is Yggy for everyone? Of course not. Neither is anything else. We have done our best to make a state-of-the-art, completely upgradable product that you can enjoy for many, many years and not worry about changes in the future. No matter what you end up with, I hope you find the perfect product for your needs.

Click to expand...

 
I assume that the Yggy has very little burn in time then.  Some equipment definitely has to burn in over time. For example(it's an amp though) my Audio-GD Master 8, would depend on warming up time. After a few months of using it, the warming up period didn't influence sound quality that much as before, I think that's because the equipment is more burned in.
 
King-wa sends his master products with 300 hour burn in (I think I got my Master-8 when they still burned it in for 100 hours) YMMV
 
PD: English isn't my first language

I presume these questions are rhetorical but given your unnecessarily ad hominem framing...

Lacking though I am in English comprehension and being of limited hearing ability and slight of intellect too eek:!), I did dare to think purrin's listening skills - which I too respect BTW - might be just a little too refined and discriminating. His comments might put off potential purchasers who would actually enjoy yggy. IOW, perhaps purrin instantly hears subtleties I personally have yet to discover. Or might never. Not improbable: what I hear (can decode) now is considerably more than 2 or 3 years ago.

Hence, I put purrin's 'advice' to one side. My response was to Jason's "it does sound best when left on". My hope: it sounds best when left on not it sounds crap if not.

Aware as I am of how talk propogates through groups, it is IMHO far too soon and potentially too damaging to push the proposition that 'Yggy is no good if not left on'. The latter is certainly not what I understand either Jason or Mike to have said.

estreeter said:

Which part of 'thin and grainy and lacking plankton' at the 12 hour mark excites you ? What part of 'If you arent prepared to leave it on 24/7, dont buy it' isnt clear to you ?

Click to expand...

Rumor has it that yggy sounds indistinguishable from an odac for the first 48 hours after being powered on