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MYTHBUSTERS[+White list of brands at the bottom of the first post] [objectiveness only] Intro to...  

Poll Results: White list at the bottom of the first post.

 
  • 75% (9)
    Disagree because I dislike you, that's why!
  • 0% (0)
    Disagree, one of the brands may not be considered trustful, the reason i will live in the commentary section below.
  • 0% (0)
    Disagree, need to add the brand i'll speak about in the commentary section below.
  • 8% (1)
    Agree, full&true list I suppose.
  • 16% (2)
    Disagree, because I think you have the wrong vision regarding the term "Brand" and i'll leave the reason in the commentary section below.
12 Total Votes  
post #1 of 115
Thread Starter 

I've found out that our community lacks sound science facts. I would like to fix this for the grea justice's sake. Sorry for not being a native english speaker. I may also "invent" words because I know three languages: Russian, Romanian and English. Latin words from Romanian I frequently mix with English, sorry again.



To understand my language (the way I express the thought) the easy way, see spoiler below, section 1.



Me, the Philosopher (Click to show)

1.



My language is not complex...



      I'm just trying to do what i'm usually doing in russian: Being as laconic as possible, without losing clarity. English (for me) gives me no such possibility, because either there enough words in english for that kind of clarity i'm used to or I do not English too well.


Ok it is complex sometimes. I can apply programming principles in thought expression. You know: algoritms, shortcuts, variables, optimization, etc.


Optimizations applied by priority, capped by English knowledge: Pedagogically accessibility (to really understand the math behind), expression clarity (to exclude any two-way understandings), laconicity (style&spoilers&expressions' polishing)



2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers 


I still think your motives might be pure.



You may want to read some all of the past posts, and check out the background of some of the participants in this thread.



Humility might serve you well.  I find that it's more useful than my perseverance, force of will, and didactic erudition.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MygpuK 


It's a philosophy question, so the answer will be in much volume, but instead I will gain some more respect in your eyes, I suppose.

A person has some principles. By principles I mean RULES. My essential rules are: Truth&Justice. Justice is not always true, like the situation with high-end localization for the community. It's Justice, because head-fi did the analising part, but it ain't Truth, because these analisys where somewhat wrong, because the reviewers had no objective info sources.

I'm the source transmitter from the RU community. You may spit may face and call me jerk as you wish, I won't aggro. I appreciate and defend my ego, where it comes to feelings  but I do not respect it, by ego I mean emotions. Emotions shall be personal, if you consider yourself a man, yet you make fake some emotions without lying to get to your objectives. That's called being smart smily_headphones1.gif Because egoism is something which is simply ok in society nowadays. I'm trying to fix that - writing a metaphysics book (true philosophy, before me there was only 1 metaphysic - Aristotel).



I'm driven by my principles, as is any of us. I'm just not paying any attention to negative emotions. Lack of self-respect may be an issue because of which I would like to promote myself. I have no such lack, trust me smily_headphones1.gif





WHY BOTHERING WITH SCIENCE? For great justice - democracy - and brain training.


4. Why optimization? Optimization means "better, but with certain risks", if better is assumed to give more valuable improvement than valuable risks, the improvement is applied. It's a principle of confidence.




Abbreviations in thread&posts:



ATM - At the moment.



AFAIK - As far as I know.



FAC - Frequencies' Amplitude Characteristics
Frequency response - a particularity of FAC

Reference Audio Analyzer 3.5 - The software which allows us to TEST anything regarding sound quality! (FAC&FR) [equipment needed] - A HUGE improvement to the www.personalaudio.ru PROOVES value.


*shall be kept up-to-date*



I reject your reality and purpose my own one! (c) Adam Savage, Mythbusters



Our reviewing specialists aren't really specialists. A specialist shall have knowledge of sound theory and science, which are hidden in physics. Specialists ATM [NO OFFENSE, i'm just being objective!] look like guys with a lot of money who just "unpack-test-feedback" to answer which product is better _in_every_perspective_. Yes, they do know what is good and what is wrong. But lack of money (reason why one doesn't know what is good sound quality) must not be a problem here at head-fi!! Using my knowledge and money I got a perfect 5.1 surround headset. Yes, outdated driver material, but the rest is perfect.



Basically, any equilazer is an AMP. We do not have an AMP only when getting even more dB (over 100% by using AMP/pre-AMP) we lack power supply and/or we reach audio chipset limitations.



Russian audiophiles community has a term named "Frequency-Amplitude characteristics" which gives a very funny idea when going deep into HF.



"Why shall we need the term "product sound signature" if we can make virtually anything sound perfectly using a good AMP?" [Note: impossible with a pre-amp.]



Virtually anything, because we may theoretically have a case where 15337 kHz is -40 dB, 15701 kHz is 55dB [that's called a frequency "spike"]. Very hard to understand and a very theoretical example, but I shall be objective when speaking of science, so forget the lack of realism. In such case we need an amplifier which equilazer might be customized for very tiny frequency ranges, but we ain't got such technologies ATM. I just mean the bigger are the product's "spikes" the better AMP is needed. Better isn't equal to power, because better AMP is a more detailed AMP. We have limitations in dB, which are the distortions, a trouble of the material - Neodymium (drivers' hi-end magnets AFAIK).




I mean sound signature is a science term, while at head-fi it's more like "consumer feedback".



You express your feelings about the sound got, but there is a need of science, for great justice.




Explanation



Why do we use such terms as sibilance, soundstage, "bathroom effect", fuzzy/muddle?



I suppose, with your permission, that we don't need them at all, just because we DO use terms like "lack of treble", "for bassheads" and others and they fully refer to signal signature, but we can objectively say it's about frequencies.



It's all about frequencies



When analyzing my own product: Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 using it's soundcard with an in-built AMP (equilazer) I really managed to get perfect sound (while doing that I've learned sound science things AND equipment testing principles (that_thread is poorly adapted for the audience (my language sucks within it) and I was driven by the same main idea (High-end isn't really high-end because of information lack) but I was focused on 5.1 headsets, i'll just refurbish that thread and start a Sound Science thread having Roccat Kave 5.1 as example instead of these : http://www.head-fi.org/t/689580/overview-review-request-cyber-snipa-sonar-5-1-gaming-headset ).




Retelling the story the short way: (Click to show)
Trouble is I damaged my bass drivers (one of them was resonating on the in-built mic, got nearly broken, ATM set at -25 dB, and my treble settings are at -0... You can imagine the sound with the bass 25 dB lower than needed, while "ready_to_go" it lacked bass, that's why I started customizing... At the end, I understood a need to study a relative (ATM) thing: my bass satisfaction is capped way out of 96 dB, that's why this particular bass driver could not satisfy my needs (the drivers are capped at 108 dB (not Neodymium), but the product's engineers did a build design mistake - the mic's inner parts get smashed by the bass driver at higher than 96 dB volume...



So, which answers did I get, while doing that:



1. I've proven to myself nothing is relative. ( A philosoper's thought of mine, we can discuss it PM if you wish biggrin.gif )



2. I shall destroy all the relative things here on head-fi.org because we shall see sound quality as a primary criteria, but we cannot do that without sound science. "Signature" is not sufficient.



Why not sufficient? (Click to show)
Here on Head-fi we are supposed to have democracy. Everyone is equal, even the one with no money to afford something good_in_every_perspective.


3. I understood sound science, got it related to physics, which destroyed relative i've trusted (info from head-fi guys) things in my head.



4. Testing should be safe&systematic.




MYTHBUSTING



Update #3: 



The short way: (Click to show)
Oficially DESTROYED sound myths are SOUNDSTAGE, CLARITY(detail), SOUND_SIGNATURE sibilance and underwater/bathroom/muddle/fuzzy effects. The questions may reapper only if we proove www.personalaudio.ru non-objective which I highly, HIGHLY, EXTRA-HIGHLY doubt.


The long&detailed way of proving. (Click to show)

Sibilance - driver limitations in some treble frequency range are "broken". Found by myself sibilance can be heard at 4 to 8 kHz. [PROVEN] Update: 4-9 kHz (RU theory, untested, but proven by it).



Underwater/bathroom/muddle/fuzzy/etc effect - some frequencies are giving "ambience" effect. I've found out their localized at 175-500 Hz. See soundstage vs clarity/detail for in-depth [PROVEN] (RU theory, untested, but proven by it).



Soundstage - also an effect. You have stereo, how do you suppose a round driver can give you 3-dimensional localization? Brain is complex. You just have the feeling the sound is not flat. We should see lack of soundstage as a lack of certain frequency loudness. (i've nearly localized it ATM) Yes, it's strange, so are our brains smily_headphones1.gif.



Update: RU theory saiz it's localized in between 250 and 450 Hz, in somewhat that range i've seen flatness of the sound. [PROVEN]



Update: Soundstage frequencies are the base for TRANCE music, they give psychodelic effect, AFAI've felt.



Update: Soundstage frequencies may also create some sort of "distortion" [brain percepteiveness issue] to other frequencies when they are louder than they should be.



Soundstage vs clarity/detail - Either detail is a dB frequency response issue (easily fixed with a good enough AMP - reavealed in upcoming PERFECT PORTABLE COMBO thread) OR it's supposed to be an frequency deviation which can't be truth, because true high-end headphones cannot deviate frequency - it's done be physical limitations upgrade already - Neodymium, dB I've felt is related to diaphragm size (50mm) which came from ru.wikipedia.org analisys http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUSSIAN .



Soundstage vs clarity/detail [abordage] - Soundstage is IMMENSE when you volume cap 250-450 Hz (cap=louder damages the product) frequencies, but there is a downhand - "muddle/fuzzy" - GOTCHA! I've tried to downcap (literally, to zero) these frequencies, as a result - "flat" sound. It's like 1d instead of 3d (there are no sound direction for stereo, although, it's only an effect).



[PROVED BY ME, EASILY FACTED-OUT] by a guy with true(and not biggrin.gif) high-end stereo & a very High-end (by technical specs!) amplifier with high resistance ]



Sound signature - there is no sound signature as a term of sound quality. We are allowed to speak about sound quality fail when we have any of the before effects present in a good_to_go product [No amp/equilazer]. If you're going to use a high-end AMP/equilazer, pay more attention to max dB [AFAIK max amplitude i've seen on portables may be achieved using 50 mm drivers for stereo, but I assure you, there are 5.1 products better and less arrogantly-priced that will fully satisfy you].



Update#2:



Sound quality - whether IS IT possible to fix the dB deviation issues with a medium AMP (in-built for a PC/mobile_phone soundcard). It is not possible usually to get perfect sound up to 0.1 dB deviation, because technologies did not give us SUCH amplifiers AFAIK, ALSO it is neither possible to "fix" such a product because the manufacturer sets the maximum volume, usually, just because amplfying will result in distortions (not true for true high-end), so by "fixing" you will lower overall volume to avoid effects given above.




//endupdate



LOW_TREBLE - heavy_rockers get pleasure by listening to like ~95-115 dB of 2-12,5 kHz [PROVEN] link#2 below



LOW_VOCALS - same, 1800-6000 Hz. [PROVEN] link#2 below



LOW_BASS - same, 20-160 Hz, that's why you would better get a subwoofer and THAT'S WHY 5.1 (2.1) can REALLY make the difference for a bass-simpathyzing audiophile, even disregarding FLAC 5.1 possibilities! It's funny, but I got perfect sound, I suppose with 5.1 system, because 4 of 8 drivers are treble-dedicated, 2 are bass-dedicated and 2 are mix/central, so I adjusted bass to be louder than treble PRE-AMP, using _each_driver_loudness_, afterwards, I have done "tiny [/p]optimizations"by using their product's equilazer (it's not a normal equilazer, it uses percents of true max dB, while ordinary equilazers "presume they know" max dB and just cut 1 dB flat from any given loudness, so it's not "tiny" at all)



[PROVEN] link#2 below



LOW_SOUNDSTAGE - 120-640 Hz, the sound seems "flat" [PROVEN] link#2 below



SOUND_SIGNATURE_DISLIKE - If you listen a _proven_to_be_perfect_ product and it seems you "lack" something then it's a "tastes" issue. I've found out I LIKE ALL GENRES OF MUSIC, (except pop, lol) because I really got it how people get the pleasure from "tastes"



I_DUNNO_WHICH_FREQUENCY_I_LIKE_LISTEN_TO_THIS_SONG_PLS - try http://doctorhead.ru/images/misc/review/report-hp/fr-fr2.png locating your frequency by translating these terms into english, google translate should be ok for this 



*shall be in-depthed with each genre's specific perfect sound signature, these are far from genres now, but you shall be able to get the point*

HOW_TO_FEEL_A_GENRE [TEST IT]
(theory: to feel it 100%, just get near to too_loud_to_listen for given Hz (bear in mind loudness may damage your ears)
1. Trance - 120-640(320?) Hz. (Based on SOUNDSTAGE psychodelic brain effect *imagined as the flight of your soul* - hormones
2. Heavy Metal/Rock/similar: 2-9 kHz (the electro-guitar part). - (Based on "good sibilance" - it tickles your nerves, creates waves of nerve "giggle" from your head down by your spinal cord)
3. Vocals/Any_genre: 1,4-~8 kHz [PROVEN: From the very_very bass up to pigsqueak (rock: emo-core)] (Based on "good sibilance effect" and/or classic music satisfaction)
4. Why old people like classic - Literally, any frequency. If you inspect the thing, I still didn't get the point which kind of pleasure bass gives AND THAT reveals the dubstep mainstream success - a new product for audiophiles!!
5. Dubstep: Bass&all the above
6. Bass: Revealed in the section below [Note:]
[NOTE: Any of these effects are also achieveable AVOIDING loudness. Such phenomenon I suppose is tied to a "frequency slip" [not literally, it's like high_dB&frequency_to_low_dB&frequency_to_high_dB&frequency repeated several times, I suppose without dB lowering the effect get's even more powerful, but the "sense of the frop" is dB lowering for sure.] which is done by any instrument, but known by me on the example of Trance frequencies and Rock_electro/Rock_Vocals: The frequency "harmonically" waves, the effect applied commonly in Dubstep - "Bass drops" (the pleasure is when it's loud enough and you are AMAZED by this technic of "bass slip")

//endupdate



 



 



What sound signature really is



We have some very minor "Frequency-Amplitude Characteristics" (any certain frequency) deviations in high-end products. Using an low-end AMP with a high-end product is wrong, because we have the class high-end MONITOR headphones [WHICH MEANS any given frequency will dB-deviate just a bit] {also} [We have budget monitor headphones, I suppose i've heard about Superlux (a copy for audiotechnica, I presume)]. A high-end product is at least nearly FAC perfect, SO playing with the AMP will just give the sound your desired signature. Using a high-end amplifier can give you perfect FAC with ANY PRODUCT, bearing in mind some +20dB "fix" may cause driver failure. I've seen examples on russian forums where a high-end AMP got 200$ middle-signed headphone achieve PERFECT FAC! [ http://doctorhead.ru/images/misc/review/report-hp/rzp2.png example #1, http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/naushniki/philips-em-2126/ example #2. I suppose they use a 0 resistance AMP, which is _literally_ golden biggrin.gif].



Sound-to-noise is also a sound-signature related term. It tells us how construction (drivers' localization, materials, etc.) influences the sound from the dB perspective. I suppose humankind has already passed the frequency deviation.



Problem is, Sound-to-noise is given as "normal" like >50dB, usually. That means 50 dB of loudness may cause 1 dB of "noise". Is that objective? No. See next chapter.



High-end?



The dilemma revealed from the manufacturer's point of view: 



http://www.head-fi.org/t/690480/why-all-the-manufacturers-lie-to-us-and-how-to-find-it-out



I've seen head-fi thinks like "expensive=high-end". Now we should think how price tag is put on a product.


We have the materials, the design crew, engineering crew, marketing and others. Point is that marketing and profit usually are MUCH HIGHER for "brands". Sennheiser, as example, sell some low-end headphones. These are cheap crap, literally.



The point is BRAND should speak about trust!



Brand_value [should be like] = SUM{for every product tested}[ (k*Perfect_sound_quality + n*comfort + m*perfect_build (at least good, but NOT resistant to force-major) ) ] / (total_products_tested/build_fail_products)



The accessories being a weak pro for a certain model.



[Note: taking this model of BRAND i cannot call my Sonar 5.1 high-end at all, because it has build_failure as any of it's copies, I'm planning on buying&analysing a real brand with humble price - Roccat Kave 5.1 {I would buy 2.1 for the subwoofers if I would not need 3D localization and 5.1 FLAC possiblities}]



 



In the priority order of k,n,m descending!



The k,n,m everyone chooses for himself, BUT value should be TIED to the overall Brand_value. If we have PRICE-"spikes" in brand table (values listed), that will mean someone is humbly/arrogantly pricing his products.



I am destroying the head-fi's famous expression, "sorry for your wallet".)))



 



We need to choose by sound signature ONLY if we use NO AMP AT ALL OR(!) we are choosing from the very low end (usually 3-40$).



I can prove everything I said, except I have no money to buy FAC analisys equipment for the case I need to speak about one product's sound signature and I can't find any info on russian forums.



 


BIBLIOGRAPHY:



1. http://doctorhead.ru/advice/75475/



2. 





3. Science equals wikipedia. The octave system and the frequencies tied to the octaves.
TRANSLATION/EXPLANATION: (Click to show)
TON OF PROOFS GIVEN (not translated entirely + explained, huge sorry, guys, I can only type it for you ATM):

Transcriptions/Translations:
Male
Female
Big drum
Timpani
drums
small drums
Kong _ (don't look for translation, these are some asian instruments)
dishes
tuba
French horn
Trombone and it's bass (2 lines)
pipe
contrabass
bassoon
Saxofone Tenor
Alto saxofone
Clarnet
oboe
Flute
piccolo
Bass guitar
cello
Violin (up to 1.4 kHz, for heavy-rockers & pitch dubstep guys)
Guitar
Garmon
Organe

Hope you'll appreciate this. I'm out for today, going to rest in peace gaming biggrin.gif

The lower I've found too hard to translate at least most part, so it will wait a bit.
The lower part is "decriptions for the frequencies", meaning not the instrument, but the subjective association.

 



Updating the thread frequently, subscribe if you wish.



 



P.S.: Pre-amps have absolutely no clue unless the engi crew has supposed the product will be used with an amp (driver supporting more than the max amplitude, lol).



 



P.S.S.: Off-topic Mythbusting_to_get_good_products http://www.head-fi.org/t/690480/why-all-the-manufacturers-lie-to-us-and-how-to-find-it-out .



 



WHITE LIST OF TRUSTED SOURCES:



HydrogenAudio.org



PersonalAudio.ru



Doctorhead.ru



 



Update #1:



Thanks for spreading the word & contributing to the thread go to:



The whole administrator crew of head-fi and head-fi sponsors;



SSRock64, swspiers, bigshot, %YOUR_PROFILE%;



 



//philosopher spoiler moved to the thread start



//endupdate

WHITE LIST OF TRUE BRANDS (listed by lowest prices & my trust built from scientific reviews):
AVLEX (SUPERLUX/AXELVOX), AKG, KOSS, Sony, Philips, Somic, AUDIO-TECHNICA, Hifiman, Etymotic, BEYERDYNAMIC, FOSTER

Edited by MygpuK - 11/18/13 at 9:20am
post #2 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Update:
THREAD POLISH, tell me any error/mistake/subjectiveness you encounter!!
1. ALL KNOWN MYTHS BY ME ARE BUSTED
2. TASTES BUSTED, IF YOU LET ME SUPPOSE 640-2000 Hz is for Second Octave *do* up to Third Octave *si* (i just suppose we have no genre based on these frequencies ATM AFAIK) [NEIRO-BIOLOGY APPLIED] [a question remains the range of 320(640)-2000 Hz.]

 

Edited by MygpuK - 11/16/13 at 6:36am
post #3 of 115
Thread Starter 

FrequentlyAskedQuestions:
READ FIRST

1: You're overstating how much of a difference that EQ can make (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

 

Now that I've come and read through this thread, I'm starting to understand what you were attempting to say in some other threads I've seen you in. While some of it is lost in translation, I think you have a good point to make. However, I also believe that you're overstating how much of a difference that EQ can make. There are still physical limitations to low-cost headphone (and even mid-fi headphones) that cannot be solved by EQ alone.





Your point is absolutely right, with some little adjustments:



Quote:

Originally Posted by MygpuK View Post

"Why shall we need the term "product sound signature" if we can make virtually anything sound perfectly using a good AMP?" [Note: impossible with a pre-amp.]



 



Virtually anything, because we may theoretically have a case where 15337 kHz is -40 dB, 15701 kHz is 55dB [that's called a frequency "spike"]. Very hard to understand and a very theoretical example, but I shall be objective when speaking of science, so forget the lack of realism. In such case we need an amplifier which equilazer might be customized for very tiny frequency ranges, but we ain't got such technologies ATM. I just mean the bigger are the product's "spikes" the better AMP is needed. Better isn't equal to power, because better AMP is a more detailed AMP. We have limitations in dB, which are the distortions, a trouble of the material - Neodymium (drivers' hi-end magnets AFAIK).



 




You can note I've spoken well about physical limitation.



I said "Virtually anything. Anything would be ok regarding true high-end. ATM AFAIK only RU audiophiles do that separation properly, but they have their problems... They simply don't wish bothering constructing tables of products reviewed... I just have a list of sound-quality tested (only) products smacked onto my face with no other proper info.



I wish to share that with this community I suppose is also mine now =3



 



THANK YOU A LOT biggrin.gif You made my day.


2: Detail is the thing i suppose! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

EQ can be used to approximate many differences in headphones, but nothing can make up for shortcomings in clarity and resolution, and that's usually the bugaboo with inexpensive cans. You can match the tone of the HD800s with some gaming headphones and an EQ, but you'll never have their detail retrieval. High end transducers are pretty expensive for a reason, though usually companies pad those costs quite a bit.
Some very nice feedback, will add it to the FAQ section.

Trouble here is that i reject the "detail" term because I've already been proven by FAC tests done by personalaudio.ru which explain the issue:

"Detail" which you mean is, I suppose, "deviation of frequency" while we have none of such in true high-end (simply non-outdated by physical limitations) products. The essence yet again lies in the expression "true high-end".
I suppose that ATM AFAIK Neodymium magnets 50 mm magnets are the true high-end (with true sound signature - FAC - analised) regarding portable stereo. Semi-true high end (slightly other perspective - the adding of FLAC 5.1 possiblities - TRUE SOUNDSTAGE and 3d localization gaming pluses) from the perspective of driver size (membrane diameter) is (OH LOL biggrin.gif) 5.1 Roccat Kave (proof of true 5.1 (8 drivers) was found here: http://www.es-gaming.ru/page/roccat-kave-solid.html IT IS THE ONLY TRUE 5.1 HIGH END HEADSET IN THE WORLD AFAIK).

Have you ever tried to analise the FAC of the humbly-priced true 5.1/7.1 Roccat products? (because this is the only brand in true 5.1)
Sorry, have doubts smily_headphones1.gif


FEEDBACK
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

I'd encourage everyone to actually head over to his thread; it's an interesting read, if a little incoherent because of language issues and occasional philosophical rambling. I think there is a real point he's attempting to make, though. I'm not saying I'm convinced or anything, but his basic argument comes down to something that ths thread - "Sceptical objectivism" - has discussed over and over: EQ of a perfect amplifier can do almost everything.
Updates #1, #2,,,, up. REMEMBER: upDate #1 should be: "Update #1:" with no quotes. With that Update #%number%: given
(If you finished reading the thread before this post) You can find the needed update by pressing "Ctrl+F" and typing "Update #%number%:", no quotes.//just insert needed number

Edited by MygpuK - 11/17/13 at 5:00pm
post #4 of 115

Looks like language is a bit of a barrier here, but I'll try to decypher some parts of your post later.

post #5 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post
 

Looks like language is a bit of a barrier here, but I'll try to decypher some parts of your post later.

There is no problem in asking me to FIX those cases!

Just tell me where you cannot understand what i'm telling something and i'll speak in more detail and with more clarity!

 

I would HIGHLY appreciate that!

 

Thanks for the reply!

post #6 of 115
Thread Starter 
post #7 of 115

Now that I've come and read through this thread, I'm starting to understand what you were attempting to say in some other threads I've seen you in. While some of it is lost in translation, I think you have a good point to make. However, I also believe that you're overstating how much of a difference that EQ can make. There are still physical limitations to low-cost headphone (and even mid-fi headphones) that cannot be solved by EQ alone.

post #8 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post
 

Now that I've come and read through this thread, I'm starting to understand what you were attempting to say in some other threads I've seen you in. While some of it is lost in translation, I think you have a good point to make. However, I also believe that you're overstating how much of a difference that EQ can make. There are still physical limitations to low-cost headphone (and even mid-fi headphones) that cannot be solved by EQ alone.

Your point is absolutely right, with some little adjustments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MygpuK View Post

"Why shall we need the term "product sound signature" if we can make virtually anything sound perfectly using a good AMP?" [Note: impossible with a pre-amp.]

 

Virtually anything, because we may theoretically have a case where 15337 kHz is -40 dB, 15701 kHz is 55dB [that's called a frequency "spike"]. Very hard to understand and a very theoretical example, but I shall be objective when speaking of science, so forget the lack of realism. In such case we need an amplifier which equilazer might be customized for very tiny frequency ranges, but we ain't got such technologies ATM. I just mean the bigger are the product's "spikes" the better AMP is needed. Better isn't equal to power, because better AMP is a more detailed AMP. We have limitations in dB, which are the distortions, a trouble of the material - Neodymium (drivers' hi-end magnets AFAIK).

 

You can note I've spoken well about physical limitation.

I said "Virtually anything. Anything would be ok regarding true high-end. ATM AFAIK only RU audiophiles do that separation properly, but they have their problems... They simply don't wish bothering constructing tables of products reviewed... I just have a list of sound-quality tested (only) products smacked onto my face with no other proper info.

I wish to share that with this community I suppose is also mine now =3

 

THANK YOU A LOT :D You made my day.

post #9 of 115
Thread Starter 

This thread will remain as laconic as it can be. Although i'm looking for pedagogical-wise optimization, so I'm open for questions until the world ends :)

Update: FAQ created (thanks go to ssrock64).

 

SSROCK64, please, be so kind: If you have the wish to spread the word - this thread - i'm asking you to add the "SOUND MYTHBUSTING:www.head-fi.org/t/690441/94 " to your forum signature. (Can be modified by accesing the needed web page: hover your mouse over your nickname (in the upper-right corner of the current window) and you shall see the button "Edit signature")

 

Thanks for the FAQ :) 

 

Update #1 coming.

post #10 of 115
Thread Starter 

Update #1 up.

(If you finished reading the thread before this post) You can find it by: Press "Ctrl+F" and type "Update #1:", no quotes.

post #11 of 115
Thread Starter 
Update for the "Philosopher" spoiler. Thanks go to bigshot and swspiers!
post #12 of 115

I won't add it to my signature (I'm almost out of room as it is), but I'll mention the thread to a few people.

post #13 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

I won't add it to my signature (I'm almost out of room as it is), but I'll mention the thread to a few people.
You totally made my day.
post #14 of 115
Thread Starter 
Update #2: [ctrl+f and type the part before paranthesis] - Mythbusters & TON OF PROOFS INCOMING!
High-End=>Brand formula [Note:] update.
Philosopher spoiler updated.
Added meta-update support in FAQ post.
Edited by MygpuK - 11/15/13 at 8:48pm
post #15 of 115
Thread Starter 
P.S.S.: Off-topic Mythbusting_to_get_good_products http://www.head-fi.org/t/690480/why-all-the-manufacturers-lie-to-us-and-how-to-find-it-out fixed.
Edited by MygpuK - 11/15/13 at 11:37pm
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › MYTHBUSTERS[+White list of brands at the bottom of the first post] [objectiveness only] Intro to the "SOUND SCIENCE WALL OF TEXT" thread