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New JH Audio flagship! "Siren Series Roxanne"
Jul 19, 2014 at 11:20 AM Post #6,406 of 8,377
It seems like just about all recent impressions (ie. over last month) have been universally positive, pretty much correlating with the lack of reports in backlog/CS issues.  It's quite a shift.  It almost seemed to start right around the time Mimoulle received his and had an about face regarding JH Audio (hah... j/k... maybe sorta).
 
In particular, I was hoping to see more feedback on the Roxannes vs. K10s.  Two high-profile/experiened CIEM owners strongly prefer the latter - VZero & tupac.  Tupac even posted his CIEM Roxanne in the FS.  At the same time I feel like more of the recent impressions I've seen between the two favor the Roxannes.  Also I can't quite be sure, but it seems Jude favors the Roxannes as well based on his write up in the head-fi quide.
 
I own the CIEM Roxanne and got to hear the K10 demo at the SoCal meet and came away undecided - I'd need more time than the half hour or so I spent w/ the K10s, they're impressive.  Nothing against the Roxannes, I do love mine, but if I had to plunk down $1600 right now I couldn't say for sure I'd go this way again.  Yes, I know there is a Roxanne vs. K10 thread, but it has a too much err... acolytic behavior, and this one is far more active... also taking a leap that these are the two people are cross-shopping.  
 
Not trying to be a buzzkill - really happy for everyone that is head over w/ their new Roxannes.  It's just if I were a prospective buyer, I'd want to see more comparisons between the two that strictly focused on their sonic merits w/ minimal hyperbole.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 12:58 PM Post #6,407 of 8,377
bobeau said:
  It seems like just about all recent impressions (ie. over last month) have been universally positive, pretty much correlating with the lack of reports in backlog/CS issues.  It's quite a shift.  It almost seemed to start right around the time Mimoulle received his and had an about face regarding JH Audio (hah... j/k... maybe sorta).
 
In particular, I was hoping to see more feedback on the Roxannes vs. K10s.  Two high-profile/experiened CIEM owners strongly prefer the latter - VZero & tupac.  Tupac even posted his CIEM Roxanne in the FS.  At the same time I feel like more of the recent impressions I've seen between the two favor the Roxannes.  Also I can't quite be sure, but it seems Jude favors the Roxannes as well based on his write up in the head-fi quide.
 
I own the CIEM Roxanne and got to hear the K10 demo at the SoCal meet and came away undecided - I'd need more time than the half hour or so I spent w/ the K10s, they're impressive.  Nothing against the Roxannes, I do love mine, but if I had to plunk down $1600 right now I couldn't say for sure I'd go this way again.  Yes, I know there is a Roxanne vs. K10 thread, but it has a too much err... acolytic behavior, and this one is far more active... also taking a leap that these are the two people are cross-shopping.  
 
Not trying to be a buzzkill - really happy for everyone that is head over w/ their new Roxannes.  It's just if I were a prospective buyer, I'd want to see more comparisons between the two that strictly focused on their sonic merits w/ minimal hyperbole.
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This is a really good question.  I think part of the difficulty in this kind of comparison lies in the fact that they are both so expensive, and therefore it is rare to find someone who owns both customs.  As Jude said in his guide, his impressions of the K10 were based on the demo version, which often times doesn't give a true impression of the custom version.  I'm sure they are both excellent sounding, though I ultimately purchased the K10's, more from fear of the customer service issues that JH Audio was dealing with, not to mention the beautiful design options they offer (I'm probably the exception in that I was not that crazy about all the carbon fiber results I saw on Roxanne owner pics).  Maybe not the best criteria to make a decision, but I again reasoned that they are both wonderful sounding iem's.  Having said all this, maybe Shigzeo now owns both customs?  I believe he was going to soon do a review of the K10's on Headfonia, and maybe he'll have some impressions of the two head to head.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 4:00 PM Post #6,408 of 8,377
fiascogarcia said:
  This is a really good question.  I think part of the difficulty in this kind of comparison lies in the fact that they are both so expensive, and therefore it is rare to find someone who owns both customs.  As Jude said in his guide, his impressions of the K10 were based on the demo version, which often times doesn't give a true impression of the custom version.  I'm sure they are both excellent sounding, though I ultimately purchased the K10's, more from fear of the customer service issues that JH Audio was dealing with, not to mention the beautiful design options they offer (I'm probably the exception in that I was not that crazy about all the carbon fiber results I saw on Roxanne owner pics).  Maybe not the best criteria to make a decision, but I again reasoned that they are both wonderful sounding iem's.  Having said all this, maybe Shigzeo now owns both customs?  I believe he was going to soon do a review of the K10's on Headfonia, and maybe he'll have some impressions of the two head to head.
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RE: $$ I hear ya... but there seem to be a fair amount of head-fiers with like a half dozen or more kilobuck IEMs.  Thought we'd be hearing from at least a few more sr. members receiving both by now.  Looking forward to Shigzeo's review.
 
Point taken on Jude's experience, of which I'm in the same boat.
 
In any case, not *looking* to stir stuff up - but I was going to to wait until the summer to see how the current new IEM landscape shook out (ie. Roxannes vs. K10 vs. Mentors) before a purchase, and I am none the wiser on what I'd do... actually I likely would have bitten the bullet on the K10 given the JH backlog and complaints.  The BF sale forced my hand on a pre-order.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 6:46 PM Post #6,409 of 8,377
That's exactly what happened to me. If there was no BF sale, I would have left my options open. If I were to pay full price for the K10 or Roxanne, based on reviews alone, I would have gone for the K10s. 
 
That being said, it does appear that neither is lacking top tier refinement for their particular sound. To add to that, next year (possibly this year) a bunch of new customs will come out and then you're in the cycle of having to get the latest TOTL which is probably why some here have a whole bunch of custom IEMs or selling their customs for a fraction of what they paid. 
 
What I'm really saying is it's a slippery slope 
tongue.gif
 
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 8:38 PM Post #6,410 of 8,377
I just tried both k 10 and Roxanne demo version. They are completely different school of thoughts on tonality and both is about the best of the best in their own right. I might write more when I get some time. In short, for those who believe stax tonality, the k10 would be the choice and for those who believe in audeze like the lcd x, the Roxanne would be it. Very different tonality on both of these so I can't say that one is better than the other.
 
Jul 20, 2014 at 11:28 AM Post #6,412 of 8,377

Not sure it's possible to meaningfully compare universals with CIEMs. I ordered the CF Rox CIEM, and during the loooong wait heard the uni Rox. Bleech. Thought I'd made a terrible (and expensive) mistake. But the customs not only fit like a dream, they sound wonderful as well.
 
So if you like the uni, you'll probably love the custom - but just because the uni sounds "meh" doesn't mean the custom won't be great. Kind of a crapshoot, and at K10/Rox prices, not for the faint-of-heart-and-wallet.
 
Sigh.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 4:28 AM Post #6,413 of 8,377
45longcolt said:
Not sure it's possible to meaningfully compare universals with CIEMs. I ordered the CF Rox CIEM, and during the loooong wait heard the uni Rox. Bleech. Thought I'd made a terrible (and expensive) mistake. But the customs not only fit like a dream, they sound wonderful as well.


 


So if you like the uni, you'll probably love the custom - but just because the uni sounds "meh" doesn't mean the custom won't be great. Kind of a crapshoot, and at K10/Rox prices, not for the faint-of-heart-and-wallet.


 


Sigh.
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that's because the tip has a huge influence on how the uni sound.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 12:01 PM Post #6,415 of 8,377
I do not know anything about IEM design but. It seems to me that this "arms race" to cram more and more drivers into a shell is less interesting than careful implementation. I base this on the fact that there are single driver IEM's that are impressive.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 12:27 PM Post #6,416 of 8,377
I agree. Roxannes are 3-way and having quad drivers for low, mids and highs doesn't provide much advantage. I don't know much about IEM design, but according to Jerry it helps with impendance curves and I suppose it also provides a lot of head room if you want to run them REALLY loud. However, in my opinion it doesn't have much impact on the sound quality - careful design is more important than sheer number of drivers. However, if number of drivers comes from careful design, than it may be good! I'm just not sure it is the case with Roxannes, or if design requirements were set right for our crowd... instead of partially deaf rock stars using it loud on stage or with whatever iPod they have.
 
Jul 22, 2014 at 10:22 PM Post #6,418 of 8,377
stefu said:
I agree. Roxannes are 3-way and having quad drivers for low, mids and highs doesn't provide much advantage. I don't know much about IEM design, but according to Jerry it helps with impendance curves and I suppose it also provides a lot of head room if you want to run them REALLY loud. However, in my opinion it doesn't have much impact on the sound quality - careful design is more important than sheer number of drivers. However, if number of drivers comes from careful design, than it may be good! I'm just not sure it is the case with Roxannes, or if design requirements were set right for our crowd... instead of partially deaf rock stars using it loud on stage or with whatever iPod they have.
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Actually it provides a tremendous amount of advantage. Hint: Soundstage.
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 6:28 AM Post #6,419 of 8,377
Good point. Roxannes, indeed, has a great soundstage, but does it come from the number of drivers? I don't have experience with other CIEMs, but reading reviews around here suggests there are better contenders in this area with fewer drivers and the soundstage is an effect of frequency response, not number of drivers. The way I see it is, the number of drivers may make designing specific CIEM easier, but 'more' doesn't mean 'better' and the end result depends on the mastership of the designer and his/her goals.
 
Jul 23, 2014 at 10:35 AM Post #6,420 of 8,377
Good IEMs typically show distortion near 1% in the low bass and .5% somewhere else in it's range at a 100dB level. Every time you double up a driver distortion drops and that's always better as these sort of levels are clearly in the audible range. You may also help hold off ringing. With an even number of multiple drivers per range, you can siamese them to fully cancel vibration and resonance to further reduce IM distortions and the sort of thing that will show up more when actually playing music than on a steady frequency test. More drivers doesn't necessarily mean better but more drivers used optimally should.
 
Correct soundstage should come from great phase and group delay characteristics. Big soundstage isn't the same thing. Always sounding big can indicate a phase issue. I should be able to sound intimate as well and always sound focused when the material can be. The way multiple drivers would help this is by dropping the noise (distortion) floor to allow more delineation and space been notes. Still won't work well if phase and time are off. I personally tend to appreciate these qualities more than some minor preferences in frequency response which can be tailored with cables etc. Also, your ear/rain will adjust to minor frequency aberrations if they are smooth in character which means no peaks, dips or significant deviation octave to octave.
 
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