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Bowers & Wilkins P7 - over the ear headphones - Page 43

post #631 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post
 

 

 

Well for example, your statement on the scaling of a good amp for the P7 makes it sound like it's on the level of importance an amp is for an amp-mandatory headphone like say the HD800. My beef is against statements like that can easily be misconstrued as an amp being imperative for the enjoyment of the P7, and with a good amp makes the P7 as good as any setup out there. And as for a direct counter to your specific statement, I highly doubt any amp would give an improvement to the P7 compared to the unamped sound as a decent amp would do for the HD800. I'm pretty sure a majority of people would agree with me here on that statement. It's quite likely you aren't even arguing that point with your statement, but I'm just showing how easily a simple statement, without any reference points and coupled with all the praising on this thread, can make it seem that way to the less experienced.

You're bordering between misinterpreting my posts and outright putting words in my mouth.  You'd have to read that statement of mine completely out of context to come to that conclusion.  Let's break it down:

 

1 - I never said an amp was imperative for the P7, and in fact I said it sounds great without an amp.  I said that it scales better with an amp than the Sennheiser Momentum, which is another portable headphone that's a direct competitor.

2 - I never said it scales with an amp as well as the HD800, or any other higher end open headphone for that matter.  In fact, I don't recall bringing those up at all in this thread.

3 - I CERTAINLY never said or even SUGGESTED that with a good amp the P7 is as good as any other setup out there.

 

There is no way any reasonable person is going to read those statements and come to the conclusions that you're afraid they're going to come to, especially on a forum like this.  Like I tell my wife from time to time, you're complaining about stuff that hasn't actually happened yet.

post #632 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkManiac View Post
 

You're bordering between misinterpreting my posts and outright putting words in my mouth.  You'd have to read that statement of mine completely out of context to come to that conclusion.  Let's break it down:

 

1 - I never said an amp was imperative for the P7, and in fact I said it sounds great without an amp.  I said that it scales better with an amp than the Sennheiser Momentum, which is another portable headphone that's a direct competitor.

2 - I never said it scales with an amp as well as the HD800, or any other higher end open headphone for that matter.  In fact, I don't recall bringing those up at all in this thread.

3 - I CERTAINLY never said or even SUGGESTED that with a good amp the P7 is as good as any other setup out there.

 

There is no way any reasonable person is going to read those statements and come to the conclusions that you're afraid they're going to come to, especially on a forum like this.  Like I tell my wife from time to time, you're complaining about stuff that hasn't actually happened yet.

 

"was as big of a difference as I've ever heard an amp make"

 

Didn't see any other context in the post, such as comparison to Momentum. I think you were stating that in response to someone who said the same amp didn't make too much of a difference in their experience with the P7. Just by taking your statement on face value, you are stating the amp helped the P7 as much as any amp you've heard make for any headphone. At least that's how I read it in context. You could make an argument your statement meant "was as big of a difference as I've ever heard an amp make (for the P7)", which states how great a pairing that specific amp is for the P7. But really I think most people would read it as the amp made as much of a difference as you've heard any amp make for all headphones in general. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Just taking what you said at face value, and like you said, you never brought up any other headphones like the HD800 up in this thread. I'm arguing that's the problem. Without such reference points, it's hard for people to understand various statements made in this thread. Anyone can read this thread. As I'm typing this, there are 4 members and 4 guests on this thread. Plenty of lurkers in this community, and plenty of new people looking to get into the audiophile world. As I've read in another thread, a similar problem happened to the M50. People were hyping it up, and new head-fiers tried them out and agreed how great they were, but the problem was for the new head-fiers, it was mostly in comparison to what they had come from like Apple earbuds or Skullcandy. In fact, the M50 isn't even that great in it's price range anymore. With a much more expensive pair like the P7, I think it's much more important to bring up context and reference points, as there are plenty of headphones in the same price range that gives better sound if mobility is not a concern.

post #633 of 1114
Hi all, first post after being a somewhat dormant viewer from afar.

I have finally taken the plunge and ordered the P7s. This is in no small part due to my being a massive B&W fan, despite being a disappointed owner of the P5s (which will shortly be gracing eBay) and really hating the backwards-step that was the P3s. Most of the reviews I have read suggest that the P7 is a significant improvement, but I would be really interested to hear a direct comparison from somebody who owns/has owned both. Also, I was planning on pairing them with a Fiio Andes, which I already have, sparing me the extra expenditure. Any thoughts?

EDIT: Bugger, forgot I had another question. How crucial is burn in?

Thanks in advance anyone who helps. Go easy on me, I am new here!
Edited by GeorgeB0128 - 12/8/13 at 2:13am
post #634 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post

"was as big of a difference as I've ever heard an amp make"

Didn't see any other context in the post, such as comparison to Momentum. I think you were stating that in response to someone who said the same amp didn't make too much of a difference in their experience with the P7. Just by taking your statement on face value, you are stating the amp helped the P7 as much as any amp you've heard make for any headphone. At least that's how I read it in context. You could make an argument your statement meant "was as big of a difference as I've ever heard an amp make (for the P7)", which states how great a pairing that specific amp is for the P7. But really I think most people would read it as the amp made as much of a difference as you've heard any amp make for all headphones in general. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Just taking what you said at face value, and like you said, you never brought up any other headphones like the HD800 up in this thread. I'm arguing that's the problem. Without such reference points, it's hard for people to understand various statements made in this thread. Anyone can read this thread. As I'm typing this, there are 4 members and 4 guests on this thread. Plenty of lurkers in this community, and plenty of new people looking to get into the audiophile world. As I've read in another thread, a similar problem happened to the M50. People were hyping it up, and new head-fiers tried them out and agreed how great they were, but the problem was for the new head-fiers, it was mostly in comparison to what they had come from like Apple earbuds or Skullcandy. In fact, the M50 isn't even that great in it's price range anymore. With a much more expensive pair like the P7, I think it's much more important to bring up context and reference points, as there are plenty of headphones in the same price range that gives better sound if mobility is not a concern.
Fair enough, but if you go back to my posts on this topic in this very same thread it's clear what is being compared here, and comparisons were made to the Momentum. So yes, if you take that one line from that one post I'll grant your argument, but if you take the body of my posts relative to that in this thread it's pretty clear that's not what I meant.

Could somebody pick and choose a few posts from this thread and interpret those as 'this is the greatest headphone ever'? I suppose they could so I'll grant you that, but that's the case with almost anything online, especially here on Head-Fi. There's enough negative opinion here and enough discussions of the weaknesses of this headphone that there is just no way a reasonable is going to read this whole thread and come away with that conclusion.
post #635 of 1114

Since we're going back and pulling quotes, how about I just do a full copy and paste here of my quote from page 16 of this very same thread?  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolkManiac View Post
 

Agreed on the comparison to the HE-6, and alot of the better desktop rigs in general.  It's not really fair to put the P7 against such a setup, but having a basis for comparison is nice.  My desktop rigs consists of a Peachtree DAC-ITx feeding a Schiit Lyr with upgraded tubes feeding the HE-500.  So while it's not fair to put a $400 sealed portable headphone being driven from an iPod up against a $1700 rig, it is nice to have a comparison.

 

When I compare either the Momentum or P7 with my desktop rig, I find the latter to be better at everything.  THe soundstage is wider, imaging is better, bass is more controlled and yet still plenty of it, and the mids and highs lead to instruments sounding more realistic.  The desktop rig is better in every way that matters to me.

 

What's surprising, however, is that the margin of victory is not nearly as large as I'd expect.  The desktop rig certainly doesn't sound 4 times better, and it doesn't even sound twice as good.  If I were to have a scale of 0 to 100 for sound quality with 0 being basically no sound and 100 being the best sound I could imagine or the perfect sound for me, my desktop rig would probably fall somewhere around a 95 and the two portables I have in hand now around the 90 to 92 range.  While the absolute values of those numbers are somewhat arbitrary and maybe not particularly useful, the relative distance between them may help give an idea of where I think they fall.  


Edited by PolkManiac - 12/8/13 at 5:59am
post #636 of 1114

For the record, I do think the P7 does "scale well."  Much more so than I find the Momentum or HP50. 

 

I find the treble response, while a bit too high for me, is spectacularly good; the resolution on the P7 is stellar.

 

I would say near world class.

 

Mid-range dip and mid-bass bloat disqualify it from that category for me, though.

 

I think the good amps really bring out the great HF resolution of these cans.

 

 

 

Sonido, I suggest you relax, let people speak their mind, and let the weighting of the inputs be up to the reader.


Edited by Tyll Hertsens - 12/8/13 at 8:00am
post #637 of 1114

How is the P7 against the Shure SE535 as portable earphone. Is it much better than the Shure SE535, since you are giving up alot of portability?

post #638 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB0128 View Post

Hi all, first post after being a somewhat dormant viewer from afar.

I have finally taken the plunge and ordered the P7s. This is in no small part due to my being a massive B&W fan, despite being a disappointed owner of the P5s (which will shortly be gracing eBay) and really hating the backwards-step that was the P3s. Most of the reviews I have read suggest that the P7 is a significant improvement, but I would be really interested to hear a direct comparison from somebody who owns/has owned both. Also, I was planning on pairing them with a Fiio Andes, which I already have, sparing me the extra expenditure. Any thoughts?

EDIT: Bugger, forgot I had another question. How crucial is burn in?

Thanks in advance anyone who helps. Go easy on me, I am new here!

 

I only compare both in the showroom for about 10-15 minutes so I think I can't help you that much .. from what I can tell both are just different which I prefer the P7 because of wide soundstage, the vocal is more present and much the mid-bass thumb which isn't bleed-out.

 

I can't recall any burn-in effect on my P7.

post #639 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

For the record, I do think the P7 does "scale well."  Much more so than I find the Momentum or HP50. 

I find the treble response, while a bit too high for me, is spectacularly good; the resolution on the P7 is stellar.

I would say near world class.

Mid-range dip and mid-bass bloat disqualify it from that category for me, though.

I think the good amps really bring out the great HF resolution of these cans.



Sonido, I suggest you relax, let people speak their mind, and let the weighting of the inputs be up to the reader.
That was my impression as well, I can even deal with the bass if they just had a bit more presence in the mids they would be perfect for me.
post #640 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubs28 View Post
 

How is the P7 against the Shure SE535 as portable earphone. Is it much better than the Shure SE535, since you are giving up alot of portability?

I was once on the earphones world for a little time (decided to stop after getting the custom iem) but I always prefer headphone for some reason. If you still prefer the portability I think earphone/custom iem is way to go.

post #641 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubs28 View Post

How is the P7 against the Shure SE535 as portable earphone. Is it much better than the Shure SE535, since you are giving up alot of portability?

I recently got the UE900 and I can tell you like how the P7 and M500 aren't on the same plane as desktop setups, the UE900 isn't even on the same level as the P7 or M500. Not nearly as transparent or detailed and not as robust sounding. Almost a fake sense of dimensioning. Of course I didn't get to hear the SE535 but I assume being both BA IEMs and in comparable price ranges, it can't be too far off. A 40 mm driver still does things the tiny ones can't imo.
post #642 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubs28 View Post
 

How is the P7 against the Shure SE535 as portable earphone. Is it much better than the Shure SE535, since you are giving up alot of portability?

 

P7 is far better...

post #643 of 1114
To each there own on defining world class. I agree these can get you 90% there, but to me since this hobby has so much to do with diminishing returns, I personally rate it on more of a logarithmic scale in my mind and can't imagine any of these portable headphones being compared to legit desktop setups.
post #644 of 1114

I think the pertinent issue isn't portability, per se. Yes, the P7s fold. So what? If my DT990s had a hinge mechanism, would that automatically put them into the portability category? We've come a long way from the ear bud era of portability (even though the buds are still ubiquitous). Cans like the P7s are bridging the gap between "portable" and "home" use. The primary differential, to me, is the fact that the P7s are closed cans, and have inherent limitations when in competition with open units. So it seems kinda pointless to throw headphones like the 800s into this discussion. I wanted a set of closed cans to use at home. I like the 1350s but when my ears need a break, a handy circumaural option is good to have. Plus the 1350s offer a somewhat more "accurate" or flatter response. A lively (colored or "fun") option is also nice to have in the arsenal.

post #645 of 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post

To each there own on defining world class. I agree these can get you 90% there, but to me since this hobby has so much to do with diminishing returns, I personally rate it on more of a logarithmic scale in my mind and can't imagine any of these portable headphones being compared to legit desktop setups.

 

I don't know of any closed-back headphones I prefer over the P7. It's a different matter with open headphones, an HD 600 would indeed sound better for less money. But open vs closed is not a fair comparison IMO. 

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