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Comparisons of the Liquid Lightning and KGSSHV Solid State Stax Amplifiers - Page 8

post #106 of 210

It's a term with an unchangeable definition that is rarely (if ever) achieved, yet thrown around like it's a subjective be-all. Who's got their panties in a bunch anyway? Seems it's been a fairly tame discussion up until now...

 

-Daniel

post #107 of 210

Who got their panties in a bunch?  The people trying their best to debunk a slogan.  Again - it's just a term that if I had to guess, was never meant to be literal, of course - I could be wrong.  

 

yup, until a few post back..


Edited by preproman - 9/21/13 at 11:12am
post #108 of 210

Yep you're wrong.

 

Slogan?? Lol you haven't been around long have you Prep? Slogan. SMH.

 

-Daniel

post #109 of 210

Just as long as you my friend..

 

How do you know the way they use the term is meant to be in the most literal way?


Edited by preproman - 9/21/13 at 11:29am
post #110 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by perrew View Post

So Purrin which is the most linear(wire-with-gain) stat amp youve listened to(irrespective of phone i.e. any or all phones)?

 

To me, "wire-with-gain" means not adding errors of commission while also not committing errors of omission. The KGSSHV does the best job among the stat amps of not adding errors of commission; where it lacks is that it commits serious errors of omission, e.g the blandness others have referred to or the flat sounding quality which I had mentioned earlier. There's no need to be defensive, the KGSSHV is still a good amp, I am just nitpicking here, but a comparison of the KGSSHV to the T2DIY or Electra makes this obvious.


The Electra commits mostly errors of commission. Out of these amps, it best presents the fine microdynamics and microdetails, but it also the most tubey sounding, but not excessive so. The T2DIY is a strong balance, it's errors of commission are infinitesimal (slight hint of the EL34 tube), and its errors of omission are also infinitesimal, microdynamics and microdetail very close to the Electra. The also LL2 seems to be close to the Electra in terms of microdynamics and microdetail; has much better precision and control than the LL, but it doesn't quite approach the precision of the KGSSHV (it's hard for me to say since I've only had the LL2 by itself without direct comparison.)
 
So overall I would give that title of "wire-with-gain" to the the T2DIY because of the extents of its strengths in both lack of errors of commission and lack of errors of omission.
 
Note: I don't have any skin in this game. I don't own any of this stuff anymore. Nor am I partial to KG designs or Cavalli's. Both designers have made stuff I really like and stuff I don't care for.

Edited by purrin - 9/21/13 at 12:22pm
post #111 of 210

Hi, purrin

 

And according to you, what is the best amplifier currently in production to work with the most successful and the better synergy with the SR 009?

 

Electra?

 

BHSE?

 

LL2?

 

727?

 

Other?


Edited by eric65 - 9/21/13 at 12:49pm
post #112 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

Measurements will prove nothing about wire-with-gain. The Objective2 amp despite its excellent measurements is a slightly veiled sounding amp with a strident treble quality.

The only measurement that the O2 excels in is THD distortion which means nothing to the real world once you're below 1%. Just like cables tagged with all that 99.999999% copper/gold/diamond bs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post
 

It's a term with an unchangeable definition that is rarely (if ever) achieved, yet thrown around like it's a subjective be-all. Who's got their panties in a bunch anyway? Seems it's been a fairly tame discussion up until now...

 

-Daniel

 

The term wire-with-a-gain goes way back, more solely used on diyaudio than anywhere else. Usually used in conjunction with circuitry measurements though.

post #113 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post
 

for me, wire with gain is simply one type of sound signature, the sound of absolutely nothingness and perfect neutrality.

 

Young padawan (or evil apprentice), you will learn in time after living with the best regarded amps, that nothing sounds like nothing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
 

The term wire-with-a-gain goes way back, more solely used on diyaudio than anywhere else. Usually used in conjunction with circuitry measurements though.

 

I've used (or considered) that term most often when I worked in the studio environment where there's usually chain after chain of equipment plugged into each other. Mic preamps, effects boxes, compression boxes, mic EQ, specific track EQ, mixing consoles, global EQ, etc. Noise notwithstanding, I was always worried about the resulting lost "immediacy" of the recording after adding too much crap in the chain.

 

I knew a one guy who made his own custom mixing consoles. You should hear what happens after a signal goes through six opamps or more.


Edited by purrin - 9/21/13 at 5:27pm
post #114 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

I knew a one guy who made his own custom mixing consoles. You should hear what happens after a signal goes through six opamps or more.

That's pretty cool.

post #115 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric65 View Post
 

Hi, purrin

 

And according to you, what is the best amplifier currently in production to work with the most successful and the better synergy with the SR 009?

 

Electra?

 

BHSE?

 

LL2?

 

727?

 

Other?

 
To begin, I'm actually not a big fan of the SR-009, particularly with the tonal response. As far as its "get-of-out-the-way" and what I suspect, very low distortion characteristics, I am amazed by the SR-009.
 
Of the choices above and with the SR-009, I would choose the Electra with EL34s (not 6L6s, while I feel the 6L6s are more neutral and actually my preference as a tube, the 6L6 does not play well with the tonal characteristics of the SR009.) With a typical modern sounding sigma-delta DAC as the source, I would forgo the capacitor upgrade and stick with the standard cap for a slightly thicker sound. I am really nit-picking here, and can probably go either way as there are pluses and minuses with either approach.
 
The LL2 would be next on the list. I actually consider the LL2 on an equal overall footing with the Electra, but it is a different sounding amp. (what do you expect with SS vs. tubes?) I know in the past I had recommended to people who asked me, that the LL and SR-009 was indeed a synergistic combination. The LL2 however is more neutral and extended sounding than the LL1 (which as some have indicated, had issues reproducing the extremes.) In essence, the LL2 is slightly brighter than the LL1; and I actually feel the LL2 and SR-007, especially the more tame mk1 edition, a great match. The LL2 driver control is much better than the LL1 too.
 
The BHSE / SR-009 combinations I've heard were always too bright and etched, especially with a typical digital source. And at the risk of being tarred and feathered, I've always felt the BHSE, in similar vein to the KGSSHV, sounded dynamically flat and boring, though not nearly to the latter's extent. There's a reason why I cancelled my BHSE order. It's hard for me to say his because I know Justin @ Headamp in person, and he's a always been a really nice fellow to me. There any many others who would disagree with my assessment, and I'm sure they would be willing to provide their own counterpoints.
 
I hate to say it, but I actually kind of like the 727 with the SR-009.
 
Being a fan of SETs (i.e., EC BA, Apex Pinnacle, Manley Neo-Classic, etc.), I kind of quit 'stats because I never quite found the right amplifier for them. Not a fan push-pull which always seems to remove some information in the recordings. And given their nature, 'stat amps seem to require three or four stages with some negative feedback applied to the circuit. LOL, ironically, I guess this makes me a "wire with gain" guy based on preferring circuits which look and work more like wire with gain; although one can argue the reactive components, the caps and the coils commonly used with SET designs do muck things up.

Edited by purrin - 9/21/13 at 8:24pm
post #116 of 210
Thread Starter 

Sorry I can't recommend the LLMK1 . The LLMK2 better be a totally brand new amp to fix what I heard. But based on what I've read it's more of an improvement than total rebuild.

 

The KGSSHV / SR-009 combination is truly amazing and not flat or boring to my ears. In fact its very dynamic and alive. Simply magical. The LL is the "boring" and "laid back" amp here that I had to force myself to continually go back to over several weeks just to see if it got better (which it didn't). The smear that took away from the stat quickness was another issue. 

 

Quick question on the Electra, while it's rated for 525Vrms, why is the THD only given for 100V and 300V? ;) (notice the "blue smiley face"). For the 500V KGSSHV, its rated at 0.5%THD.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 9/21/13 at 6:29pm
post #117 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

Sorry I can't recommend the LLMK1 . The LLMK2 better be a totally brand new amp to fix what I heard. But based on what I've read it's more of an improvement than total rebuild.

 

The KGSSHV / SR-009 combination is truly amazing and not flat or boring to my ears. In fact its very dynamic and alive. Simply magical. The LL is the "boring" and "laid back" amp here that I had to force myself to continually go back to over several weeks just to see if it got better (which it didn't). The smear that took away from the stat quickness was another issue. 

 

Quick question on the Electra, while it's rated for 525Vrms, why is the THD only given for 100V and 300V? ;) (notice the "blue smiley face"). For the 500V KGSSHV, its rated at 0.5%THD.

 

:beerchug:

post #118 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

Quick question on the Electra, while it's rated for 525Vrms, why is the THD only given for 100V and 300V? ;) (notice the "blue smiley face"). For the 500V KGSSHV, its rated at 0.5%THD.

 

Probably because Stax amps specify THD @ 100 Vrms also. BTW, where did you get the 0.5% THD number for the KGSSHV?

post #119 of 210
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post
 

 

Probably because Stax specifies THD @ 100 Vrms also. BTW, where did you get the 0.5% THD number for the KGSSHV?

 

Or because they'd rather not. ;) Stax only at 100Vrms, but the Electra is specified at 300Vrms as well. Why not run the full gambit and stop at 300Vrms?

 

The KGSSHV numbers are out there...you just have to look. 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 9/21/13 at 7:02pm
post #120 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

Sorry I can't recommend the LLMK1.

 
No need to apologize. I don't recommend it, at least for myself, as of right now either.

Edited by purrin - 9/21/13 at 7:15pm
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