iPhone 6 sounds better than iPhone 5 (because of the DAC, not the amp) so I wonder if ZX1 is still relevant.  The ZX1's dynamic range is interesting to say the least.  I wonder if the new A17 Walkman measures better.

Well do you trust the official RMAA results provided by the manufacturer? Heck independent RMAA tests for the ZX1 have S/N numbers that range from 93db to 104 db. It's easy to cherry pick numbers to agree with a preconditioned assessment of a particular piece of kit.

There is no correlation between having a low signal output strength to S/N ratio. If anything running an amplifier at less than it's rated maximum output can have a positive effect towards better S/N and THD performance. Likewise a extremely powerful hypothetical amplifier with high output doesn't directly translate to higher levels of S/N performance.
 
While it is true that the Colourfly C4 has a significantly higher power output than the ZX1, the downside is that the C4 is larger than the ZX1 due to the larger area required for circuitry.  
 
Also the prioritising higher output usually has a negative effect with battery life. The Colourfly C4 is rated at around 6 hours for example and Hifiman HM-901 is rated in the 10 hours region. The Android based S-Master HX DAPs: the ZX1/ F880 are rated at around 15 hours, and the non-Android S-Master HX Walkman: the A10 is rated at around 30 hours.
 
If high power out was the sole consideration in deciding what makes a portable system excellent. Should other considerations like: DAP size, and battery life be junked in favour of a product that is skewed towards satisfying a single measure of performance?
 
An amp that is designed for IEM output isn't necessarily a bad thing. What if the user exclusively favoured IEMs with their portable listening? Naturally if you are a headphone user you should look elsewhere other than the ZX1.

hifiguy528 said:

  iPhone 6 sounds better than iPhone 5 (because of the DAC, not the amp) so I wonder if ZX1 is still relevant.  The ZX1's dynamic range is interesting to say the least.  I wonder if the new A17 Walkman measures better.

Click to expand...

at 199 for the base model??
Not a chance

I want a portable Sony HAP-Z1es.  That server is screw.... amazing...

xjaynine said:

  Well do you trust the official RMAA results provided by the manufacturer? Heck independent RMAA tests for the ZX1 have S/N numbers that range from 93db to 104 db. It's easy to cherry pick numbers to agree with a preconditioned assessment of a particular piece of kit.

There is no correlation between having a low signal output strength to S/N ratio. If anything running an amplifier at less than it's rated maximum output can have a positive effect towards better S/N and THD performance. Likewise a extremely powerful hypothetical amplifier with high output doesn't directly translate to higher levels of S/N performance.
 
While it is true that the Colourfly C4 has a significantly higher power output than the ZX1, the downside is that the C4 is larger than the ZX1 due to the larger area required for circuitry.  
 
Also the prioritising higher output usually has a negative effect with battery life. The Colourfly C4 is rated at around 6 hours for example and Hifiman HM-901 is rated in the 10 hours region. The Android based S-Master HX DAPs: the ZX1/ F880 are rated at around 15 hours, and the non-Android S-Master HX Walkman: the A10 is rated at around 30 hours.
 
If high power out was the sole consideration in deciding what makes a portable system excellent. Should other considerations like: DAP size, and battery life be junked in favour of a product that is skewed towards satisfying a single measure of performance?
 
An amp that is designed for IEM output isn't necessarily a bad thing. What if the user exclusively favoured IEMs with their portable listening? Naturally if you are a headphone user you should look elsewhere other than the ZX1.

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As i said before the sq is the priority here,,,otherwise i would get an itouch.
And 10 hours is a very acceptable battery life if u don't travel.
 
Please see the internals,,u cannot seriously accept this to sound better than c4
 

the processor details
 

 
 
This is a-845,,,i can bet almost similar chip went into a17 looking at its size

hifiguy528 said:

  I want a portable Sony HAP-Z1es.  That server is screw.... amazing...

Click to expand...

**** 2000$

sardar17 said:

  **** 2000$

Click to expand...

 
it's worth every $$$.  I would pay $2k for a portable version.

I don't believe that I've ever mentioned that the ZX1 sounded better than the C4 or vice-versa. I don't have access to the C4, so any input based on sound would have been moot and speculative. Have you heard either the ZX1 or the C4?
 
Users have commented that the Colour C4 sounds better than the AK120, and by the same measure there are reviews that describe the AK120 as sounding better than the Colourfly.
The same applies with the ZX1 and the AK120.
 
It's pretty difficult to navigate towards a reasonable understanding of different products by looking only at reviews, RMAA results, and spec sheets without first hand impression.
 
There's also no way to 'tell' or to predict the sound that results from circuit board A to B just by looking at photographs.
 
The screen grab of the processor details you linked to describes a CPU that handles the operating system of the Walkman and not the DAC. So I am not sure as to what you're getting at.
 
Quote:

sardar17 said:

 
the processor details
 

 
 
This is a-845,,,i can bet almost similar chip went into a17 looking at its size

Click to expand...

xjaynine said:

 

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That was precisely my point,,,,the dac is totally unknown in sony stuff,,if they are competing in this audiophile race thry need to hardsell their product.
 
The only way i think they are not disclosing this is because they know the dac is not very good.Same as apple never talking about ram as its paltry 1 gb.
 
And no the comparison was with a17 and not zx1,,,btw any idea if anyone has done any teardown of zx1 or measured it??

It is a known quantity. A S-Master HX chip.
 
I am not aware of any examples of any independent ZX1 teardowns—I'd love to see one too—but Sony have used photographs of the amplifer/ DAC circuit in their advertising materials. A clear photo of the amplifier and DAC can be seen in the top right hand corner of this image:
 
http://img.club.pchome.net/upload/club/other/2013/9/25/pics_xingyisong_1380093769.jpg
 
Make of it what you will. But I don't believe even the most experienced head-fi member could have 'predicted' or guessed accurately the sound signature/ performance based on looking at the circuitry alone when the ZX1 was first revealed last year.
 
If you really need to look for ZX1 RMAA to get an idea based on specs and numbers just google the RMAA results taken from independent testers. Like the official numbers provided by the manufacturer, would a you trust/ believe them? Similarly there are RMAA results for the Walkman players that used the preceding S-Master MX chip too. Likewise with the numbers from an independent source. 
 
It's difficult to compare the operation of an integrated DAC/ Amp chip to a systems that uses DAC and OPAMP components (like the Colourfly, and the AK players for instance). Although the end result may or may not be similar, the signal processing chain is fundamentally different. Each circuit design has it's own unique flaws and benefits.
 
Since you mentioned Apple's business strategy and Android vs iOS. You could argue that because a typical iPhone usually has less RAM or a lower number of processing cores than a competing Android phone of a similar class/ price range. The iPhones will always perform worse right? Well that equation doesn't take into account the processing overheads of both operating systems and or how they process data and calculations. Both systems have been pitted head-to-head in innumerable synthetic benchmark face-offs, and some have resulted in the Apple product besting a similarly classed Android product, and in other Benchmarks the Android comes on top. Each operating system has its own strengths.

For the record I prefer Android, and have never purchased an iPhone.

xjaynine said:

  It is a known quantity. A S-Master HX chip.
 
I am not aware of any examples of any independent ZX1 teardowns—I'd love to see one too—but Sony have used photographs of the amplifer/ DAC circuit in their advertising materials. A clear photo of the amplifier and DAC can be seen in the top right hand corner of this image:
 
http://img.club.pchome.net/upload/club/other/2013/9/25/pics_xingyisong_1380093769.jpg
 
Make of it what you will. But I don't believe even the most experienced head-fi member could have 'predicted' or guessed accurately the sound signature/ performance based on looking at the circuitry alone when the ZX1 was first revealed last year.
 
If you really need to look for ZX1 RMAA to get an idea based on specs and numbers just google the RMAA results taken from independent testers. Like the official numbers provided by the manufacturer, would a you trust/ believe them? Similarly there are RMAA results for the Walkman players that used the preceding S-Master MX chip too. Likewise with the numbers from an independent source. 
 
It's difficult to compare the operation of an integrated DAC/ Amp chip to a systems that uses DAC and OPAMP components (like the Colourfly, and the AK players for instance). Although the end result may or may not be similar, the signal processing chain is fundamentally different. Each circuit design has it's own unique flaws and benefits.
 
Since you mentioned Apple's business strategy and Android vs iOS. You could argue that because a typical iPhone usually has less RAM or a lower number of processing cores than a competing Android phone of a similar class/ price range. The iPhones will always perform worse right? Well that equation doesn't take into account the processing overheads of both operating systems and or how they process data and calculations. Both systems have been pitted head-to-head in innumerable synthetic benchmark face-offs, and some have resulted in the Apple product besting a similarly classed Android product, and in other Benchmarks the Android comes on top. Each operating system has its own strengths.

For the record I prefer Android, and have never purchased an iPhone.

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Nope,,,right now a8 chip based on armv8 custom core(cyclone) is second only to the denver core of tegra k1 and tegra k1 cannot be put into a phone due to power constraints,,,its a tablet cpu.I am talking about singler core performance and that too geekbench.
 
Android wins in multicore geekbench but in 80% of other benchmarks on cpu,,iphone leads by a good margin beating both snapdragon 805 and maybe  exynos 5433(results not out though)
Similarly in gpu front too powervr series is a beast.
 
But ram equates to multitasking and apple sucks at it vs android

hifiguy528 said:

   
it's worth every $$$.  I would pay $2k for a portable version.

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Why don't u spend 2400$ on ak240 instead..............

In case this is of interest to anyone, I recently spent quite some time doing a head-to-head comparison between the ZX1 and the AK100II, using my SE846 IEMs (posted this earlier in the AK100/120 thread).
 
Initially I preferred the ZX1, though after more listening I concluded that I much preferred the AK100II. The ZX1 has a wider soundstage, clarity/detail and separation that's maybe a little better than the AK100II, and thicker bass. The key weakness, and the reason I prefer the AK100II, is that I found the mids pretty thin on the ZX1, and it's not something I was able to fix with EQ. The ZX1 has a colder, more analytical sound overall, and vocals sound a little more distant.
 
The AK100II clearly has a more neutral sound signature (not dissimilar to the basic sound signature from an iPod/iPhone -- putting aside details, separation, etc) whereas the ZX1 sound is more colored. For long stretches of listening, I find the AK100II sound more musical and pleasing overall. With respect to UI it's no contest, the Sony UI is ok but I much prefer the simplicity of the AK UI.
 
So... my take is that the ZX1 can certainly be a solid choice depending on personal preference and the headphones being used, but again, personally I prefer the AK100II when paired with the SE846.
 
In the end I went with the AK120II which has similar soundstage to the ZX1, maybe slightly better details/clarity, and again, with the mids & sound signature that I prefer.

mrt-man said:

  In case this is of interest to anyone, I recently spent quite some time doing a head-to-head comparison between the ZX1 and the AK100II, using my SE846 IEMs (posted this earlier in the AK100/120 thread).
 
Initially I preferred the ZX1, though after more listening I concluded that I much preferred the AK100II. The ZX1 has a wider soundstage, clarity/detail and separation that's maybe a little better than the AK100II, and thicker bass. The key weakness, and the reason I prefer the AK100II, is that I found the mids pretty thin on the ZX1, and it's not something I was able to fix with EQ. The ZX1 has a colder, more analytical sound overall, and vocals sound a little more distant.
 
The AK100II clearly has a more neutral sound signature (not dissimilar to the basic sound signature from an iPod/iPhone -- putting aside details, separation, etc) whereas the ZX1 sound is more colored. For long stretches of listening, I find the AK100II sound more musical and pleasing overall. With respect to UI it's no contest, the Sony UI is ok but I much prefer the simplicity of the AK UI.
 
So... my take is that the ZX1 can certainly be a solid choice depending on personal preference and the headphones being used, but again, personally I prefer the AK100II when paired with the SE846.
 
In the end I went with the AK120II which has similar soundstage to the ZX1, maybe slightly better details/clarity, and again, with the mids & sound signature that I prefer.

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damn u............

That was exactly what I was getting at, you simply don't get a full picture simply by looking at the specs alone. Also there would be other reasons rather than 'pure' performance that a consumer would choose one product over the other. 
 
Focusing only on the single requirement of multitasking. I like to multitask so I went with an android device, but if it wasn't a priority for me then I would consider an Apple device.
 
You also mention that the A8 chip is only second to the Tegra chips, but due to power consumption they aren't featured in any current smartphone, and is considered a tablet class CPU. The same can be said about trying to cram the internals of the Colourfly C4 into a ZX1 chasiss. There'd simply be little to no room left for a reasonably sized battery. That is if you think a ZX1 sized player with the guts and sonic performance of a Colourfly is acceptable with less than an actual Colourfly C4's battery life of 6 hours. Is >5 hours acceptable?
 
But I do see what you're getting at. It would be interesting if Sony made a PHA-1/2/3 unit with built in playback for those who needed to drive higher impedance headphones or more demanding IEMs. But that is an entirely different size/ class of product altogether. Like Android and iOS, why must there be only the 'One' product to rule them all?
 
You did after all mention in the the new Walkman A10 thread that you wouldn't buy or consider any piece of audio equipment without an audition, which is the best practice. Why is it it different here?
 

mrt-man said:

 
In the end I went with the AK120II which has similar soundstage to the ZX1, maybe slightly better details/clarity, and again, with the mids & sound signature that I prefer.
 

Click to expand...

 
Pretty much in line with my impressions of the the AK100/ 120 with the ZX1. The ZX1's colder more analytical signature paired better with the XBA-H3 which is a warm IEM, so I went with the ZX1. Although the build quality of the the AKII players is very enviable. Did you sell the your ZX1 or did you end up keeping it as a backup? I tend to use one DAP at a time and move on when it's time to try something different.