[Lan647]

  Yep, matter of tastes 

 
The mod is about feedback, which is lacking on 727's last stage.
717 has global feedback, 727 with mod has local feedback(s), but it's commonly accepted that both are very very close :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/17445#post_8174660
http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/13935#post_6885201
http://www.head-fi.org/t/616260/stax-srm-323s-or-srm-717-for-driving-the-sr-007#post_8523207
 
If you like the way 007k1 presents vocals, you should try some Sigma Pro's...mids absolutely to die for, and impact 007mk1 can't compete with on our "lesser" amps 

 
Ali

Yeah. The 717 needs no such mod. But all the STAX amps benefit from high-end caps in the different amplification stages. It does give an improvement across the board, with the 007 most notably in the low-end. 

I've tried most STAX headphones there are... a friend of mine is a collector. The 007 mk1 is king 

 
The very old SR-5 also has a gorgeous midrange. Bass and treble aren't the best, but the mids are sweet as candie.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

I've tried most STAX headphones there are... a friend of mine is a collector. The 007 mk1 is king 

 
The very old SR-5 also has a gorgeous midrange. Bass and treble aren't the best, but the mids are sweet as candie.

I do know this kind of collecting disease, indeed 

 
For me, 009 is king, head and shoulders above anything else. Nothing to do with price tag, BTW, Lambda Sig and Lambda NB are my other preferred ones.
 
007mk1 might be the first one to leave my collection, not that far behind Lambda Nova Signature, which is the most technically achieved of the Lambda I've had / tried. But LNS has the same kind of problem as 007 : as refined as it may be, it sounds a bit flat and lacks excitement / engagement when listening to anything else than chamber music / audiophile female vocals. OTH, recent Lambdas (SR-X0X or SR-X07) sound too harsh and in you face for my tastes, reducing extension and soundstage. Lambda Signature is my preferred one among Lambdas (and second to 009 IMO) : bright, yes, but never fatiguing, not as detailed as LNS, sure, but not that far, wider soundstage (pads...), better bass, and real dynamics.
009 really sounds like the best synthesis of all.
 
Definitive statements (and classified !) will wait for my BHSE, but I've the feeling 007mk1 is somehow over-hyped. The quest for an amp to get some dynamics from it gave us some really gorgeous pieces of gear, but I definitely agree with Tyll or D. Malher on relative ranking. 
 
And yes, SR-5 is one of the most euphonic Stax out there (not that far behind Sigma Pros), the first one I've had...it also has some dynamics which make 007 sounding a bit flat 

 
YMMV, 2 cents.

Ali

 

[Sorrodje]

   but I've the feeling 007mk1 is somehow over-hyped. 

 
 
Blasphemy ! 
 

 

[rgs9200m]

The SR007 mark 2 (current model) is more lively and engaging and resolute than the mark 1 I had (but that mk 1 was a few yrs ago with a diff. amp, so take that comparison with a grain of salt).
But in any case, the SR007 knocks on the 009's door in terms of a compelling, live character. 009 fans really owe it to themselves to hear the newest SR007. I have both.

 

[astrostar59]

 
I'm personally using a modded 717, I would guess it's somewhere around the level of your modded 727. Caps replacements did a great job tightening up the low-end of the 007. In its original state, the bass was a tad loose compared to the 009. Now, the bass of the 007 is just as fast and tight as the 009 but richer and a little weightier. With the BHSE, I'm sure it will be even better. 

With the treble I guess it's just preferences. I've never found the vocals of the 009 to be realistic even on very high quality recordings, because of that (to my ears) upper mid emphasis and overall lack of warmth and richness in tone. I don't know whether or not the 007 is ideal, but it certainly gives the most transparent and authentic vocal reproduction I've heard from any headphone. 
 
But again, preferences I guess. 

 

I would try and get a demo with a better amp. I had the 717 and it was ok with both the 007 and 009, but ultimately the 009 had outgrown it and as you say the treble was a bit cold / too much. It is a different animal with a better amp, and would recommend you try that. To me it is like putting a 50K speaker on the end of a mid range amplifier, it often doesn't work out. The 007 is more forgiving but also more 'veiled'.
 
As regards bass, the 009 to me goes both lower and offers more texture and musical cues. The 009 scales so well, it has almost no limits I can hear, out of a BHSE or my KGSShv. It also has more soundstage width and depth. I can't fault it. Having tubes in a DAC or the amp can help leave the 'digital' signature behind somewhat. My 007 is a 2015 007A which appears to be an improvement on my earlier issue MK2.5 black model.
 
BTW my 007 is a 2015 007A which appears to be an improvement on my earlier issue MK2.5 black model. I have both 009s and 007s to hand and use the 009 in my main system so 90% of the Of course all in my own experience, others may differ as is this hobby. 

 

[Lan647]

 
I would try and get a demo with a better amp. I had the 717 and it was ok with both the 007 and 009, but ultimately the 009 had outgrown it and as you say the treble was a bit cold / too much. It is a different animal with a better amp, and would recommend you try that. To me it is like putting a 50K speaker on the end of a mid range amplifier, it often doesn't work out. The 007 is more forgiving but also more 'veiled'. As regards bass, the 009 to me goes both lower and offer more texture and musical cues. The 009 scales so well, it has almost no limits I can hear, out of a BHSE or my KGSShv. I can't fault it. Having tubes in a DAC or the amp can help leave the 'digital' signature behind somewhat. Of course all in my own experience, others may differ as is this hobby.

My 717 is superior to a factory 717 though, so have that in mind. Also, it doesn't matter if you pay 100k for an amp. Unless it has a specific tuning, it won't make those treble dBs in the 009 go away. It's mostly just a matter of FR, and I don't like the FR of the 009. 
 
Also have in mind that well respected enthusiasts such as Bob Katz, Tyll Hertsens and Birgir all prefer the 007 to the 009, and that's with amps like the KGSSHV and BHSE.

Not surprised your new 007 is an improvement, the mk2,5 SZ3 is by far the least impressive of the O2s. 

 

[Ali-Pacha]

   
 
Blasphemy ! 
 

I doubt it, but whenever the BHSE changes my mind about this ranking, I'll admit it.
 
Yes, some are mafia's followers by essence
Yes, some are trashing on mafia by principle
Yes, some are biased by price, so their ranking
Yes, some are biased by demonstrative sound
Yes, some are OTH biased in reaction by unimpressive sound (more "real" because unimpressive)
Yes, some are biased by the image they have of such reviewer / hobbyist / company
Yes, I'm biased and influenced like everyone in this hobby.
 
But until now and in the end, I do prefer 009, and I think there's no objectivity nor truth in this hobby.
 
Now free hugs for everyone 

 
Ali

 

[VandyMan]

 
Also have in mind that well respected enthusiasts such as Bob Katz, Tyll Hertsens and Birgir all prefer the 007 to the 009, and that's with amps like the KGSSHV and BHSE.
 

That is not totally correct. They used a special version of the KGSS in the latest listening test. In previous reviews, Tyll had used the BHSE and called the combo the best he had ever heard. He can change his mind, but it bothered me that when he met with Bob Katz he did not use the same amp as his original review.

The only comparison that *really* matters to me is my own. I compared the 007 and 009 side by side out of the BHSE at a Head-Fi meetup. I bought the 009. The 007 sounded veiled in comparison. The great thing is that most of us can do this test because HeadAmp brings this setup to lots of shows. I don't find my late-2014 009 too bright except when listening to  overly bright source material. Certainly not as bright at the HD-800 or older AKGs.

As far as the earlier post that expressed the hope that a very expensive amp would make the 009 sound like the 007... Wouldn't that be a total waste of money? If you prefer the 007, great, you just save $2000 or more. Why would you buy the more expensive headphone, add on an expensive amp, all to make it sound like a cheap model? The logic eludes me.

 

[bearFNF]

That's what it really comes down to. What you personally like. All the "expert" opinions and measurements are good for reference only, IMO.

I listened to the 007 MK1, MKII, and 009, in addition to the rest of the line on as many setups as I could. I liked the 009's the best. End of story. YMMY, IMNSHO, etc etc...

 

[mulveling]

 
That is not totally correct. They used a special version of the KGSS in the latest listening test. In previous reviews, Tyll had used the BHSE and called the combo the best he had ever heard. He can change his mind, but it bothered me that when he met with Bob Katz he did not use the same amp as his original review.

The only comparison that *really* matters to me is my own. I compared the 007 and 009 side by side out of the BHSE at a Head-Fi meetup. I bought the 009. The 007 sounded veiled in comparison. The great thing is that most of us can do this test because HeadAmp brings this setup to lots of shows. I don't find my late-2014 009 too bright except when listening to  overly bright source material. Certainly not as bright at the HD-800 or older AKGs.

As far as the earlier post that expressed the hope that a very expensive amp would make the 009 sound like the 007... Wouldn't that be a total waste of money? If you prefer the 007, great, you just save $2000 or more. Why would you buy the more expensive headphone, add on an expensive amp, all to make it sound like a cheap model? The logic eludes me.

Yep, and that "special" KGSS looks like just a regular KGSS with a ton of jacks and lots of words in its name. A KGSS won't hold a candle to a KGSShv or especially a BHSE. Pretty crappy to handicap the Staxes so much when there were gobs of high-end dynamic amps on tap. Especially since amp selection is more crucial  with electrostats vs. dynamics. And there's definitely no point to trying to make a 009 sound like a 007 Mk I...I'd get rid of any such amp immediately!
 
I think Tyll would be shocked...shocked if he heard that KGSS next to a BHSE again -- with both 007 and 009 (also get some decent tubes in that BHSE, not Russians...why skimp at this level?).

 

[Lan647]

It's kind of funny to see people trying sooo hard to defend the 009. Some people just can't accept that there are actually preferences, and that's it. The 007 and the 009 are two different beasts of the same caliber, take your pick and be happy. 
 
About Tyll's KGSS, I'll quote his quote from the builder. 

"...a slightly leaner sounding amp that either the KGSSHV or the BHSE so the bass is not as prominent and perhaps a bit more "honest", whatever that might mean... This one was a bit more advanced as it uses the same output transistors as the KGSSHV and runs on +/-415V rails instead of the stock KGSS +/-350V. The power supply is a simplified version of the KGSSHV unit but superior to the ones found in any normal KGSS.

...This one is truly unique though, nothing like it in the world. It uses the same amplifier PCB as Justin (Wilson of HeadAmp) used in his KGSS amps but this one has better output and gain transistors, larger heatsinks to accommodate the extra standing power and every component is hand selected/matched. The power supply is a play off the T2DIY and the KGSSHV design which followed it. It has only been used in this amp and contains five supplies, all of them regulated. +/-15V, +/-415V and the bias supply of +580V." 
 
It seems to me like it would be closer to a KGSSHV than to a KGSS. But I may be wrong. 

 

[VandyMan]

Originally Posted by Lan647 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
It's kind of funny to see people trying sooo hard to defend the 009.

 
I see you trying to make the case that the 009 is bad by quoting various semi-famous people and the rest of us stating our personal preference which happens to disagree with you.
 

Originally Posted by Lan647 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Some people just can't accept that there are actually preferences, and that's it. The 007 and the 009 are two different beasts of the same caliber, take your pick and be happy. .

 
Really? Because it seems to me that we are all in agreement that one should hear both and then get the one you prefer.

 

[TheAttorney]

You beat me to it VandyMan. Lan's first two sentences were so unnecessary. And personal preference is already a given.
 
One great thing recently coming out of the never ending 007/009 debate is that some have said that the current production 007 is the best 007 (after the port mod), which should make life easier for those not wanting second hand headphones.

 

[Lan647]

   
I see you trying to make the case that the 009 is bad by quoting various semi-famous people and the rest of us stating our personal preference which happens to disagree with you.
 
 
Really? Because it seems to me that we are all in agreement that one should hear both and then get the one you prefer.

I think you should go back a few pages and read again. I'm just politely pointing out to certain users (no names) who, instead of just accepting my opinion, are quick to complain about my choice of amp, source or whatever it may be - that I'm not the only one sharing that opinion. How is that wrong? 

Whatever, I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on. 

 

[ufospls2]

Hey guys,
 
I asked this question in the Abyss thread, but I thought I might as well ask the Stax guys as well, and see what the responses are. I am trying to decide between the SR-009 and the Abyss. I would be pairing the SR-009 with a 323s at first, then later down the road a kgsshv most likely, or another solid state amp of similar quality. I would be pairing the Abyss with my Auralic Taurus Mk2. I have heard the SR009 before, and loved it. I'm not a bass head, but I do love good bass, and the SR009 had great bass to me. Perhaps with a tiny bit of eq to bring up the low end it would be perfect. I mostly listen to electronic stuff, metal, rock, some pop, and jazz. I won't be able to try out the Abyss it looks like sadly, so I'm trying to get as much info as I can online first. What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!