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The Stax Thread III - Page 192

post #2866 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post

Just go the 009s and going non-stop with the KGGShv. Now the light dawns about why things said about it are said indeed ! Time to shut up and go back to the music.

Yes I agree, but that costs a lot of money. It depends on the budget the guy has really. Maybe before the 'ultimate' Stax set-up were using the HD800s with a mid range dynamic amp, either with tubes or Solid State. Maybe that is best for mid budget, and the 009s with a DIY KGSShv or BHSE if more money?

The 007s are not half bad either, but need a good amp, the 717 at the very least. A second hand pair of 007s MK2s plus the 717 or a modded 727 could be had for around 3 - 4K US.

A new 009 plus a good DIY KGSShv would be double that.
post #2867 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post


Yes I agree, but that costs a lot of money. It depends on the budget the guy has really. Maybe before the 'ultimate' Stax set-up were using the HD800s with a mid range dynamic amp, either with tubes or Solid State. Maybe that is best for mid budget, and the 009s with a DIY KGSShv or BHSE if more money?

The 007s are not half bad either, but need a good amp, the 717 at the very least. A second hand pair of 007s MK2s plus the 717 or a modded 727 could be had for around 3 - 4K US.

A new 009 plus a good DIY KGSShv would be double that.

Oh yeah, I am truly lucky to get the 009 as part of a trade. I already had the SR 007 mk1 and Geoff's KGSShv. He, in his inimitable way, pointed out people that were using the KGSShv were also using 009s. So when this came along, I could not resist. I do have the 800 with a tube amp so some A/Bing will be done in the near future. But for now, the 009 is center stage and I've been ignoring the family for 3 hours now :biggrin:

post #2868 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

Oh yeah, I am truly lucky to get the 009 as part of a trade. I already had the SR 007 mk1 and Geoff's KGSShv. He, in his inimitable way, pointed out people that were using the KGSShv were also using 009s. So when this came along, I could not resist. I do have the 800 with a tube amp so some A/Bing will be done in the near future. But for now, the 009 is center stage and I've been ignoring the family for 3 hours now :biggrin:

What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.

post #2869 of 3742
For me, the sr009 does not suffer from sibilance of the hd800 but it has a similar kind of non-attenuated mid-highs to upper treble. Some seem to have success with various amps to control the HD800. But I am unclear how that works out as the phone suffers from acoustic ringing right in the sibilance region (in the order of 3-4dB, what amp could possibly tame that and only that?).

Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).

IMO, you can't have the cake and eat it, ultimate resolution comes at a cost: that of discovering the ugly part of some (hopefully a minority) of your recordings.

If you're not really after the ultimate in resolution / transparency / airyness, there are many other (possibly cheaper) options, including orthos.
post #2870 of 3742
I've transitioned from my Omega to the HD 800 for general-purpose and I think the 800s get pretty close in resolution. Although the soundstage is more vast it doesn't have the ethereal qualities of the Stax -- that ethereality contributes greatly to perceived transparency and air IMHO.

The 800s are also much harsher in the treble but I'm heavily biased against electrodynamics in this area.
post #2871 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.

Sure does. Especially since to my ears, the HD800's are so damn flat and boring comparative to some other top offerings. And that's regardless of what magical tube amp or wire-with-gain you pair it with. 009's are butter while the HD800's are grating.

post #2872 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).



IMO, you can't have the cake and eat it, ultimate resolution comes at a cost: that of discovering the ugly part of some (hopefully a minority) of your recordings.



If you're not really after the ultimate in resolution / transparency / airyness, there are many other (possibly cheaper) options, including orthos.

 


Soooooooo true. Let's do filthy sex together :p

Ali


Edited by Ali-Pacha - 8/5/14 at 8:42am
post #2873 of 3742

Is Price Japan still a legit place to order a new 009 from?

 

Also, when did the price on these drop to the ~$3300 range?  Last time I checked, which wasn't too long ago, they were $4500+.

post #2874 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

For me, the sr009 does not suffer from sibilance of the hd800 but it has a similar kind of non-attenuated mid-highs to upper treble. Some seem to have success with various amps to control the HD800. But I am unclear how that works out as the phone suffers from acoustic ringing right in the sibilance region (in the order of 3-4dB, what amp could possibly tame that and only that?).

Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).

IMO, you can't have the cake and eat it, ultimate resolution comes at a cost: that of discovering the ugly part of some (hopefully a minority) of your recordings.

If you're not really after the ultimate in resolution / transparency / airyness, there are many other (possibly cheaper) options, including orthos.

On the sibilance, you're spot on. I have a couple of recordings that are sibilant. With the 800, I instinctively reach for the volume knob but today with the 009, I was able to listen to the song without wincing.
By the way, the 009 is not a bass light can at all,IMO. I have some Led Zep recordings that have a heavy bottom end and the 009 was very faithful to the source.
post #2875 of 3742

Well i've been a dyed in wool Stax user for decades, but for me the Sennheiser HD800 is one of the most exciting and scalable headphones in the dynamic arena i've ever heard.

Its ruthlessly revealing like the 009! Flat, boring and sillabent are not terms I associate with it unless the source/recording is that way inclined. Its no more selective or otherwise to genre than the 009 either IMO.

Its definitely the most difficult, enigmatic and infuriating headphone I have ever owned. When I started to appreciate its undeniable strengths I have persevered until it sounds well truly great and is not at all put in the shade by the 009. Yes it does sound bright sometimes but I frmly believe this is mostly down to the recording or source and the HD800 does tend to accentuate hot or compressed recordings.Stats and the 009 for me will always have the edge but at its best  it is truly amazing for a $1500 headphone.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

For me, the sr009 does not suffer from sibilance of the hd800 but it has a similar kind of non-attenuated mid-highs to upper treble. Some seem to have success with various amps to control the HD800. But I am unclear how that works out as the phone suffers from acoustic ringing right in the sibilance region (in the order of 3-4dB, what amp could possibly tame that and only that?).

Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).

IMO, you can't have the cake and eat it, ultimate resolution comes at a cost: that of discovering the ugly part of some (hopefully a minority) of your recordings.

If you're not really after the ultimate in resolution / transparency / airyness, there are many other (possibly cheaper) options, including orthos.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post
 

Sure does. Especially since to my ears, the HD800's are so damn flat and boring comparative to some other top offerings. And that's regardless of what magical tube amp or wire-with-gain you pair it with. 009's are butter while the HD800's are grating.

post #2876 of 3742

Complin, (probably shouldn't ask this in a Stax thread) but what's your HD800 cable? Thanks. 1-word answer is fine.

post #2877 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Well i've been a dyed in wool Stax user for decades, but for me the Sennheiser HD800 is one of the most exciting and scalable headphones in the dynamic arena i've ever heard.

Its ruthlessly revealing like the 009! Flat, boring and sillabent are not terms I associate with it unless the source/recording is that way inclined. Its no more selective or otherwise to genre than the 009 either IMO.

Its definitely the most difficult, enigmatic and infuriating headphone I have ever owned. When I started to appreciate its undeniable strengths I have persevered until it sounds well truly great and is not at all put in the shade by the 009. Yes it does sound bright sometimes but I frmly believe this is mostly down to the recording or source and the HD800 does tend to accentuate hot or compressed recordings.Stats and the 009 for me will always have the edge but at its best  it is truly amazing for a $1500 headphone.

 

 

 

To me, it comes down to sounding uninvolving. This was completely apparent to me with the mk 1 - which had a more natural presentation to it, while being every bit as technical. And those differences were just further revealed with the 009.

 

I'll never dog how capable the HD800 is and I've liked it on some rigs, it's just one of those headphones that never fully did it for me though.

post #2878 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post
 

 

 

 

 

I would agree. The HD 800 is the only dynamic member I plan to keep in my stable (orthodynamics included).

 

I'm still not fully convinced that the HD 800s are that difficult to tame (it was pretty much plug-and-play on my gear with predictable results), but it is certainly sufficiently revealing for a daily driver.

 

I can't bear using Stax on the daily due to durability and reliability concerns.

post #2879 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.

 

I fully understand where you are coming from. I have found this is not at all a problem with the SR-009s. That is with several amps, but even more so with the KGSSHV. For such resolving headphones, the SR-009s are quite accepting and a genre master with anything I throw at them: from Prodigy to Anathema and Rotting Christ to Verdi.

 

They are not perfect headphones, but about as good as they get technically. And very importantly do not exhibit any "glaring" flaws. :)

 

That said, I agree the HD800s can be tamed, but this is a mission and a hobby in itself for someone like me who likes to listen to one headphone for hours and hours on end. 


Edited by negura - 8/5/14 at 1:36pm
post #2880 of 3742
Quote:
Originally Posted by negura View Post
 

 

I fully understand where you are coming from. I have found this is not at all a problem with the SR-009s. That is with several amps, but even more so with the KGSSHV. For such resolving headphones, the SR-009s are quite accepting and a genre master with anything I throw at them: from Prodigy to Anathema and Rotting Christ to Verdi.

 

They are not perfect headphones, but about as good as they get technically. And very importantly do not exhibit any "glaring" flaws. :)

 

That said, I agree the HD800s can be tamed, but this is a mission and a hobby in itself for someone like me who likes to listen to one headphone for hours and hours on end. 

Agree with negura's assertions. A good amp (e.g. full-size KGSShv, BHSE, T2) will coax enough bass & dynamics out of the 009 to make them excellent all-genre headphones for the majority of recordings. There's definitely some stuff -- e.g. thrash metal, or something particularly lean/bright sounding -- where I'd much rather pick up something like the ATH-L3000. But so far that's been the minority. The 009 are so good from top-to-bottom that they don't need to make concessions towards being forgiving. And when the recording is any better than mediocre (even just a tiny bit), the results are typically outstanding. 

 

I've tried the HD800 now though SDS-XLR, GS-X Mk 2, Headamp Gilmore Balanced Reference, RSA Apache -- all in balanced mode from the same NAD51 source as with the 009 systems. And it's just a whole lot more difficult for me to get into it. The SDS-XLR gets me the closest, but that's probably filling in some bass more than neutral (sounds great, though). I also slightly preferred the Gilmore Balanced Reference to the GS-X Mk2 in all aspects except for that nasty HD800 treble peak, which was made worse (and kind of a deal-breaker, unfortunately). The GS-X Mk 2 is clean, neutral, and smooth from top-to-bottom, as expected; notably better than the Apache (which itself sounded pretty good in balanced mode). 

 

Also borrowing some Lambda Pros -- they're a bit warmer and more forgiving, though (obviously) less resolving than the 009. Sounding great out of the KGSShv. Very nice; not a bad set to have around!


Edited by mulveling - 8/5/14 at 1:59pm
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