unityispower said:

Thanks kyu.

http://beatsantique.bandcamp.com/album/collide

Track # 2. How do you hear the ASG 2's perform overall? Anything seem odd with the bass?

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unityispower said:

Thanks kyu.

Has Rin ever messed up on a graph? Doesn't he also listen to them before writing his conclusion? If he did and they sounded great, I would think he would catch the oddness.

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lfc_sl said:

I do not like it when Rin appears in an IEM thread. I respect everyone is entitled to an opinion, the issue is that you get 20 pages of distracting non-consensus. Would much rather all such posts were spun off to sound science and leave the rest of us happy to soak up subjective personal opinions to it in the equipment forums!
 
Anyway then, are there any more comparisons against the IEM in my sig? Not a lot in this thread beyond cursory mentions...
Thanks

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lfc_sl said:

I do not like it when Rin appears in an IEM thread. I respect everyone is entitled to an opinion, the issue is that you get 20 pages of distracting non-consensus. Would much rather all such posts were spun off to sound science and leave the rest of us happy to soak up subjective personal opinions to it in the equipment forums!
 
Anyway then, are there any more comparisons against the IEM in my sig? Not a lot in this thread beyond cursory mentions...
Thanks

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dnullify said:

The point being - if I may presume, that graphs shouldn't be treated as sole representative of an IEM.
 
An important thing to note here, is a graph is all fine and well but we all seem to forget that all our ears have different FR, we're all different ages, are at different levels of hearing loss, and all have different preferences.
 
One set of Graphs under one set of conditions can only tell so much relevant information as far as whether we'd like an IEM or not, the most useful of which would likely be driver matching.

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gnarlsagan said:

I think that even with all the disagreement Rin provides a net positive for the headphone/iem community.

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gnarlsagan said:

 
I think that even with all the disagreement Rin provides a net positive for the headphone/iem community. 

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Conclusion:

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Specimen A, as shown by the data, is far superior to specimen B. In fact, superior does not begin to describe the difference. No, Specimen A makes specimen B look like a HIV patient with muscular dystrophy.

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eke2k6 said:

 
I agree. I just wish he'd be less snarky with his analyses, and I'm not just referring to the one he did for the G2.
 
Imagine if scientific papers were written like his blog:
 
 

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dnullify said:

The point being - if I may presume, that graphs shouldn't be treated as sole representative of an IEM.
 
An important thing to note here, is a graph is all fine and well but we all seem to forget that all our ears have different FR, we're all different ages, are at different levels of hearing loss, and all have different preferences.
 
One set of Graphs under one set of conditions can only tell so much relevant information as far as whether we'd like an IEM or not, the most useful of which would likely be driver matching.

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lfc_sl said:

I do not like it when Rin appears in an IEM thread. I respect everyone is entitled to an opinion, the issue is that you get 20 pages of distracting non-consensus. Would much rather all such posts were spun off to sound science and leave the rest of us happy to soak up subjective personal opinions to it in the equipment forums!
 
Anyway then, are there any more comparisons against the IEM in my sig? Not a lot in this thread beyond cursory mentions...
Thanks

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gnarlsagan said:

 
I think that even with all the disagreement Rin provides a net positive for the headphone/iem community. We're able to learn more about what makes headphones sound the way they do, and our increased understanding gives us more authority with reviews and more importantly with criticism. We're empowered to hold headphone designers to a higher standard, because we can have actual evidenced reasons as to why a product should perform better. And so churning out poorly designed products becomes a much riskier endeavor. 
 
At the very least people are able to make more informed buying decisions with Rin's info. Too many subjective opinions often end up having a circle-jerky quality about them, like what the Sparrow experienced with the SM3. I'm not saying graphs are the last word in sound evaluation, but it's nice to be able to cut through the bologna sometimes.   

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1. People who like the same phone suddenly become mates / buddies — not always a good thing for those looking to get a genuine consensus on the SQ of said phone. Why? Buddies will often have a hard time disagreeing with one another. The more buddies, the worse this can be for those looking for unbiased impressions.

1. People are easily influenced by others, ie if several people say X phone sounds this way, then now my ears tell me this phone sounds just like that.

1. Several people often do pretty well at parroting, ie just repeating what others have said — some of these people post a hell of a lot and come across as knowledgeable when often what they're doing is just picking up bits from here and there—ah, all that impressive audio jargon!—and doing a fine job at regurgitating. Some of these people can be more influential than many would realise.

1. If someone has an agenda—unfortunately not so infrequent—they will try to bash or praise a particular phone; this isn't as obvious as it may seem. There are perfectly nice and seemingly credible people who do have these agendas and have an influence on people; some of them are very close to effectively being what we've come to know as shills. Some of these people have got free samples or very generous discounts, often in exchange for a so-called review (which, of course, is usually quite favourable) or, if not a review, just a constant presence in several threads 'helping' those who, er, seek help, even when some of these people are not asking about that specific phone / product.

music_4321 said:

 
 
Some good points and definitely food for thought.

Here are a few things I've often seen over the years happening in many, many threads:
 

1. People who like the same phone suddenly become mates / buddies — not always a good thing for those looking to get a genuine consensus on the SQ of said phone. Why? Buddies will often have a hard time disagreeing with one another. The more buddies, the worse this can be for those looking for unbiased impressions.

 

1. People are easily influenced by others, ie if several people say X phone sounds this way, then now my ears tell me this phone sounds just like that.

 

1. Several people often do pretty well at parroting, ie just repeating what others have said — some of these people post a hell of a lot and come across as knowledgeable when often what they're doing is just picking up bits from here and there—ah, all that impressive audio jargon!—and doing a fine job at regurgitating. Some of these people can be more influential than many would realise.

 

1. If someone has an agenda—unfortunately not so infrequent—they will try to bash or praise a particular phone; this isn't as obvious as it may seem. There are perfectly nice and seemingly credible people who do have these agendas and have an influence on people; some of them are very close to effectively being what we've come to know as shills. Some of these people have got free samples or very generous discounts, often in exchange for a so-called review (which, of course, is usually quite favourable) or, if not a review, just a constant presence in several threads 'helping' those who, er, seek help, even when some of these people are not asking about that specific phone / product.

 
There's more, quite a bit more, but I'll leave it at that.

I personally don't have a problem with Rin's graphs—and appreciate the work he's put into them—, not even with some of his very harsh comments. The big problem I see is the people who take these graphs / measurements and comments, make them their own and start spreading what I'd call the "gospel of Rin", which then becomes something not unlike a new religion (I'm not trying to be remotely funny or witty here). We have Sonove graphs, Tyll's (InnerFidelity's) graphs, Golden Ears' graphs, purrin's graphs, etc., but we don't often see a Sonove / Tyll / Golden Ears / purrin religion, although they all have their (big) fans / followers, too.

 

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