See that's what I imagined of the x1, for them to be nuetral besides the bass. Its just that the only rating on here said that the vocals are too upclose which is something I might like. Maybe I should ask questions on the x1 thread.
 
I'm sure you will be able to get the x1 later RPGWiZaRD. What closed back did you get instead?

Quote:

grizzlybeast said:

See that's what I imagined of the x1, for them to be nuetral besides the bass. Its just that the only rating on here said that the vocals are too upclose which is something I might like. Maybe I should ask questions on the x1 thread.
 
I'm sure you will be able to get the x1 later RPGWiZaRD. What closed back did you get instead?

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I've been listening to my X1 for just a short while now, so these are first impressions.
 
Perhaps the very first thing that struck me about this headphone was the smoothness of the sound. The highs are smooth and very well behaved. The vocals are not forward! I don't know what's going on in that person's review, but the vocals are very evenhanded, never shouty or jumpy (like Grados can be). So far, my opinion is that vocals are good on the X1. Not great, but good. They do seem to lack a sense of ultimate clarity. As for the bass, I guess I just expected there to be more of it. It is elevated, but not an obscene amount. I've liked it on songs where there's not a lot going on. Now listening to some faster, more layered metal, the bass seems to overwhelm a touch and I find myself wishing for a bit more neutrality in the bass. But for simpler arrangements, the accentuated bass was nice.
 
These are very early impressions, I will post further impressions as I spend more time with these.

yeah it sounds like the senn hd650 and 600's are  pulling ahead in the battle , though all that I will have is an aune t1. So reaching for the hd 600 seems like the deal. I would love to have the x1 and the hd650 but that is too much.
 
It seems to me like the x1 isnt the technical can but the engaging one. Like it is built for those who like engaging music without sibilance. Not for those who want super clear music like the q701 or shures.
 
Im thinking between the 600 and the q701. At some point I will have to pull the trigger but I didn't want shoot until i knew if the x1 had vocals as its strong point or not.
 
It sounds to me like the l1 and x1 are different in the midrange quite some bit but similar in the bass.
 
The he-400 had clarity just not realistic clarity.

Too bad you never tried the HE-400 with an amp. Just for the sake of it. 

Quote:

davidsh said:

Too bad you never tried the HE-400 with an amp. Just for the sake of it. 

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Do not fill him with such nonsense! Grizzlybeast, take it from me, the HE-400 does not magically sound more natural with an amp. I owned the HE-400 twice for this very reason - I thought...what if I used a better amp? The verdict - nope, still sounds weird.
 
Grizzly, if vocals are important to you, I'd go Sennheiser. The more I listen to the X1, the less fond I am of the vocals. I do think the X1 presents vocals more naturally than the HE-400 (going by memory), but they still lack the sense of presence, body, and clarity that the HD600 and HD650 carry.
 
HD600 vs HD650 - HD600 has a greater sense of "clarity" and transparency, as it is more neutral. HD650 has a touch more heft in the bass, and less shine in the highs - an easier, non-fatiguing listen. But the HD600 is still a smooth, natural sounding headphone with great vocals. The bass does not extend quite as low as the HE-400, and it is quite neutral, so it may not give you the "oomph" you're looking for. But realistically, the only truly satisfying bass I've heard in a headphone is from the discontinued closed-back Denons - D2000 / D5000 / D7000. They have that "slight looseness" you mentioned in a previous post, and I agree it certainly sounds more life-like and natural than the ultra-tight bass of an open-back ortho.
 
Unfortunately, at this price point, there will always be compromises. Finding the headphone with the most forgivable faults for your tastes is the trick - and I think it's going to be Sennheiser for you.

Quote:

biscuitz said:

I've been listening to my X1 for just a short while now, so these are first impressions.
 
Perhaps the very first thing that struck me about this headphone was the smoothness of the sound. The highs are smooth and very well behaved. The vocals are not forward! I don't know what's going on in that person's review, but the vocals are very evenhanded, never shouty or jumpy (like Grados can be). So far, my opinion is that vocals are good on the X1. Not great, but good. They do seem to lack a sense of ultimate clarity. As for the bass, I guess I just expected there to be more of it. It is elevated, but not an obscene amount. I've liked it on songs where there's not a lot going on. Now listening to some faster, more layered metal, the bass seems to overwhelm a touch and I find myself wishing for a bit more neutrality in the bass. But for simpler arrangements, the accentuated bass was nice.
 
These are very early impressions, I will post further impressions as I spend more time with these.

Click to expand...

I own the x1's and while the voices aren't particulary louder, they do sound like the singer is almost kissing you while the rest of the band is a few meters to 20 meters away. I guess that is what the person meant by upfront. Maybe that's the difference between terms, you use forward. He used upfront. The chance is there you both mean a very different thing. 
For me that is the ONLY complaint on the x1's They'd have been perfect otherwise. But I guess it's worth the try if you need the vocals. They stand out alot more than the rest. 

Quote:

holycheese said:

I own the x1's and while the voices aren't particulary louder, they do sound like the singer is almost kissing you while the rest of the band is a few meters to 20 meters away. I guess that is what the person meant by upfront. Maybe that's the difference between terms, you use forward. He used upfront. The chance is there you both mean a very different thing. 
For me that is the ONLY complaint on the x1's They'd have been perfect otherwise. But I guess it's worth the try if you need the vocals. They stand out alot more than the rest. 

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It appears you are that person
 
I appreciate you stepping in to offer some clarification. It seems you are referring to positional imaging rather than frequency balance? I can sort of see where you're coming from if that's the case. I've been A/Bing the HD650 and the X1, and as far as soundstaging goes, the X1 does seem to stretch the image out more than the HD650, lending a greater sense of depth. In this sense, voices do seem more separated from instruments. However, I still find the Sennheiser vocals to have greater presence and realism.

.

Quote:

davidsh said:

Too bad you never tried the HE-400 with an amp. Just for the sake of it. 

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i did try it with an amp but the Forte was not built for only listening. Its main focus was the microphone amps. It has a really good DAC but the headphone amp part is only kinda powerful. I need to check the specs.

Quote:

biscuitz said:

Do not fill him with such nonsense! Grizzlybeast, take it from me, the HE-400 does not magically sound more natural with an amp. I owned the HE-400 twice for this very reason - I thought...what if I used a better amp? The verdict - nope, still sounds weird.
 
Grizzly, if vocals are important to you, I'd go Sennheiser. The more I listen to the X1, the less fond I am of the vocals. I do think the X1 presents vocals more naturally than the HE-400 (going by memory), but they still lack the sense of presence, body, and clarity that the HD600 and HD650 carry.
 
HD600 vs HD650 - HD600 has a greater sense of "clarity" and transparency, as it is more neutral. HD650 has a touch more heft in the bass, and less shine in the highs - an easier, non-fatiguing listen. But the HD600 is still a smooth, natural sounding headphone with great vocals. The bass does not extend quite as low as the HE-400, and it is quite neutral, so it may not give you the "oomph" you're looking for. But realistically, the only truly satisfying bass I've heard in a headphone is from the discontinued closed-back Denons - D2000 / D5000 / D7000. They have that "slight looseness" you mentioned in a previous post, and I agree it certainly sounds more life-like and natural than the ultra-tight bass of an open-back ortho.
 
Unfortunately, at this price point, there will always be compromises. Finding the headphone with the most forgivable faults for your tastes is the trick - and I think it's going to be Sennheiser for you.

Click to expand...

Tyll says he prefers the hd600 so it is a matter of preference and he isnt the only one. I think im convinced. I know that at my price range I am kinda stretching my expectations but ideally an immersive listening experience is ideal. I have heard headphpones where the bass wasn't the whistle but thats not the primary concern just the cherry on top. I am convinced about the hd650 or 600 now. I just dont know which. The clarity and neutrality or the heft and scalable dynamics of the hd650. I really appreciate the help.
 
It's funny how these were ones i was avoiding. To hear the word VEIL is like "noooo don't put a blanket over my voice". Im not gonna like I liked the aesthetics of the x1 too but who cares its all about the right sound you need. As an artist hearing it right is almost as important as singing it right.
 
Do you know if the bass on the hd600 is more than the infamously anemic akg k702?

Haven't heard the K702, but I've heard the Q701 which supposedly has just a touch more bass presence than the K701/702. I thought its bass was decent, and it may even extend a bit lower than the Senns, just going by graphs. But the overall tonality is warmer on the Senns, so their bass will seem more forward or more present. But the last time I heard the HD600, I thought it could groove better if it had just a touch more bass. Then again, my amp is not quite up to snuff to drive these Senns - hoping to fix that soon.
 
Ultimately, at some point you'll have to try something for yourself and kind of feel your way toward what you like best. We at Head-Fi can try to direct you based on your past experiences with headphones (HE-400), which is why you made this thread, but nothing trumps hearing the headphones for yourself. You may not like the Senns, but this is us trying our darnedest to guide you

As said, trying to amp the HE-400 just for the sake of it. Nothing more...

Quote:

biscuitz said:

Haven't heard the K702, but I've heard the Q701 which supposedly has just a touch more bass presence than the K701/702. I thought its bass was decent, and it may even extend a bit lower than the Senns, just going by graphs. But the overall tonality is warmer on the Senns, so their bass will seem more forward or more present. But the last time I heard the HD600, I thought it could groove better if it had just a touch more bass. Then again, my amp is not quite up to snuff to drive these Senns - hoping to fix that soon.
 
Ultimately, at some point you'll have to try something for yourself and kind of feel your way toward what you like best. We at Head-Fi can try to direct you based on your past experiences with headphones (HE-400), which is why you made this thread, but nothing trumps hearing the headphones for yourself. You may not like the Senns, but this is us trying our darnedest to guide you

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Yeah thats why I was saying that I am settling on the hd600 in a nutshell and will try them. unfortunately the only way to try them is to buy them and then send them back if i dont like em.
 
As soon as I get my money from the he-400 Ill try the hd 600.
 
Thanks for all of you help and you guys helped way more than expected.

Remember to tell us what you think 

for sure!