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iMOD vs Cowon J3 - Page 2

post #16 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

 

The J3 is still sold on Amazon.


Seriously?
Proof it! :)

post #17 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post


Seriously?
Proof it! :)

No - I'm completely wrong! The idiotic Amazon search showed me Z2s when I asked for J3s! What a muggins I am!


Edited by scuttle - 2/22/13 at 10:01am
post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

 

The J3 has more versatile EQ letting you tune to your tastes more, so that to your ears it will probably sound better. 

 

Other than that.... The truth is that except for sound signature, which a decent player can change with EQ, all competent DAPs will sound the same. It's headphones and IEMs that have really interesting characteristics that can't be duplicated with EQ. The J3 has studio derived BBE technology for EQ and enough amp and battery capacity that you don't need to think about adding an amp to drive any sane portable headphone.

 

However, sq with either will depend far more on the headphones/iem than the DAP - my $30 Clip+ driving my HD25's kicks the J3's ass playing rock when the J3 is driving  Ety HF5s (the Etys are great on clarity but have gutless bass.) If you want good sq, the real decision is what IEMs/heaphones to buy, then leftover money gets used for the DAP.

 

Warning! People who believe that amps can have magical properties indetectible by electronic engineering will disagree me with and say the mod pod will sound completely different depending on the amp you choose and that this can't be duplicated by EQ... However, these claims never survive blind testing, so a sensible person would ignore them.

 

I like this:

 

 

Quote:

The truth is that except for sound signature, which a decent player can change with EQ, all competent DAPs will sound the same. It's headphones and IEMs that have really interesting characteristics that can't be duplicated with EQ. The J3 has studio derived BBE technology for EQ and enough amp and battery capacity that you don't need to think about adding an amp to drive any sane portable headphone.

 

 

However, sq with either will depend far more on the headphones/iem than the DAP - my $30 Clip+ driving my HD25's kicks the J3's ass playing rock when the J3 is driving  Ety HF5s (the Etys are great on clarity but have gutless bass.) If you want good sq, the real decision is what IEMs/heaphones to buy, then leftover money gets used for the DAP

 

This boils down to this: headphones or IEMs affect sound quality most.

 

In the same vein.

Where can I find a thread about pairing Sansa Clip+ with $20 -$25 IEMs

(I don't want ear buds.)

I've read on this site that some Sony IEMs FX ... (or something like that) need 500+ hours to burn.

This is sick!

post #19 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeJack_2008 View Post

 

I like this:

 

 

 

This boils down to this: headphones or IEMs affect sound quality most.

 

In the same vein.

Where can I find a thread about pairing Sansa Clip+ with $20 -$25 IEMs

(I don't want ear buds.)

I've read on this site that some Sony IEMs FX ... (or something like that) need 500+ hours to burn.

This is sick!

 

A 500 hour burn-in sounds like bs.

 

Good $20 IEMs: look for the threads on the SHE3580 and 3590. Unless you are a bass-head, in which case you'll want whatever the current JVC Xtreme IEM is. There are other good choices, but if you check the main threads featuring those then people will tend to discuss the main alternatives. (I honestly think the Philips are better than $150 HF5s - only a little less clear in the mids and trebles but with much better formed bass. But ymmv to an extreme degree here - plus the HF5 is getting old and is overpriced.)

 

The Clip is one of the easiest DAPs to pair with an IEM because it has a low impedance (amp impedance should be less than 1/8 the IEM's impedance) and, oddly for such a small player, a more than averagely power amp - I use mine with pretty serious HD25-1-ii headphones and it had no problems driving them at all.

post #20 of 32
Thread Starter 

Source and the amp does also make a big difference though.

I don't need better earphones I am ordering the Heir 8A soon :D

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Source and the amp does also make a big difference though.

Literally thousands of ABC tests say no - except if a source is so bad that is broken (eg it has a degree of noise and jitter that you wouldn't find in a typical $30 DAP.)

post #22 of 32
Thread Starter 
Then ipod vs altmann tera has no.difference?!!!
post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Then ipod vs altmann tera has no.difference?!!!

Sure there's a difference....one is ridiculously priced and has no screen....lol.

post #24 of 32

In terms of sq,  there isnt,  thus ipods is the best player in the world because all dap have no difference in terms of sq 

post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Then ipod vs altmann tera has no.difference?!!!

When people have done blind tests with an iPod and a cheap receiver amp against a $6000 CD player and matching amps, no one could tell the difference when the two systems were EDed to sound the same. So a silly little terra is hardly worth mentioning. It's a nasty secret of the audio industry that once jitter and noise are below audible levels - which a $30 Sansa Clip easily achieves - that all sources and amps can be EQed to sound the same. (Subject to impedance matching and the amp having enough power to drive the target - you won't drive a concert hall PA with a Clip.)

 

Otoh, there are serious differences sq differences between speakers and amps. Which is why you'll find people who seriously know what they are doing sometimes have a system like an old iPod or a Clip feeding a $100 Tripath amp... which feeds a set of $2000-4000 of Stax "earspeakers" (which seems to be Japanese for "very expensive headphone.")  Or the speaker oriented crowd at The Audio Critic (google it) will use a similarly cheap source/combo feeding, no kidding, $15,000 of speakers.

post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrias View Post

In terms of sq,  there isnt,  thus ipods is the best player in the world because all dap have no difference in terms of sq 

 

Well, a Clip has the same SQ, plays more formats, costs a LOT less, doesn't try to make you Apple's butt monkey, and at least has proper EQ bands. So I'd say it's better than a 'pod.

 

And the J3 costs iPod money but has a much meatier amp and battery pack for difficult phones and much, *much* better EQ - and is again butt monkey free. So again, I'd rate it higher. 

post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

When people have done blind tests with an iPod and a cheap receiver amp against a $6000 CD player and matching amps, no one could tell the difference when the two systems were EDed to sound the same. So a silly little terra is hardly worth mentioning. It's a nasty secret of the audio industry that once jitter and noise are below audible levels - which a $30 Sansa Clip easily achieves - that all sources and amps can be EQed to sound the same. (Subject to impedance matching and the amp having enough power to drive the target - you won't drive a concert hall PA with a Clip.)

 

Otoh, there are serious differences sq differences between speakers and amps. Which is why you'll find people who seriously know what they are doing sometimes have a system like an old iPod or a Clip feeding a $100 Tripath amp... which feeds a set of $2000-4000 of Stax "earspeakers" (which seems to be Japanese for "very expensive headphone.")  Or the speaker oriented crowd at The Audio Critic (google it) will use a similarly cheap source/combo feeding, no kidding, $15,000 of speakers.

 

Well, this sounds like 'audio-blashemy' to me.  I am not  an audio expert, engineer, or even a  DIY-er but  I cannot  acccept the following:

The DAC  section in Sansa Clip+ (or other cheap digital audio players  is as good as the DAC  sections in the ODAC, Dragonfly, ... Benchmark,  etc.

 

P.S.

By the way, I own the Clip+.

post #28 of 32
Thread Starter 
So from what I am reading here.... I am told that the DAP and amp or ( DAP only ? Please clarify) make no difference whatsoever??? Only the output ie speakers or top IEMs make all the difference?! Depending on the EQ?!!!!!
post #29 of 32
Thread Starter 
Wait re reading it amps do.make a big difference! So does this mean the quality of DAC and imods and all such things are a load of marketing BS? As amps coupled with earphones, speakers or headphones are the only determinants of the sound you hear? :O
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

When people have done blind tests with an iPod and a cheap receiver amp against a $6000 CD player and matching amps, no one could tell the difference when the two systems were EDed to sound the same. So a silly little terra is hardly worth mentioning. It's a nasty secret of the audio industry that once jitter and noise are below audible levels - which a $30 Sansa Clip easily achieves - that all sources and amps can be EQed to sound the same. (Subject to impedance matching and the amp having enough power to drive the target - you won't drive a concert hall PA with a Clip.)

 

Otoh, there are serious differences sq differences between speakers and amps. Which is why you'll find people who seriously know what they are doing sometimes have a system like an old iPod or a Clip feeding a $100 Tripath amp... which feeds a set of $2000-4000 of Stax "earspeakers" (which seems to be Japanese for "very expensive headphone.")  Or the speaker oriented crowd at The Audio Critic (google it) will use a similarly cheap source/combo feeding, no kidding, $15,000 of speakers.

 

Scuttle, are you saying then, that provided you have a decent AMP, you can use EQ to handle the rest?

 

I'd be the first to admit I know absolutely nothing about EQ but interested to read up / learn more about it. Do you or anyone have any suggested reading I could do?

(I try searching on google and I come up with EQ for mixing, etc, which I don't know how relevant those articles are)

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