NEWS: Meridian Releases The Explorer Pocket-Sized USB DAC - Page 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens 

Ummmm...if I were interested in an ME for low impedance headphones, I'd wait a couple of months. Jus' sayin'.

If Meridian is telling dealers that they're going to release an updated version of the Explorer in a few months to correct the defects of the current model and those dealers are not telling prospective customers, that's pretty sad.

Mine arrived today (I ordered before the output impedance issue was discovered; TTVJ was backordered). Not sure whether it's even worth opening the box now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonUnit 

 

If Meridian is telling dealers that they're going to release an updated version of the Explorer in a few months to correct the defects of the current model and those dealers are not telling prospective customers, that's pretty sad.

 

Mine arrived today (I ordered before the output impedance issue was discovered; TTVJ was backordered). Not sure whether it's even worth opening the box now.

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater before you've even heard it with your cans ? If you are so genuinely disturbed by the impedance issue, I'm sure Todd would be a lot happier to get his ME back unopened, but of all the impressions given so far here and elsewhere, the positive far outweigh the negative - even if you do agree with Purrin that it's not your cup of tea, why not give it 48 hours before making that call ?

Tyll is an industry insider, but the last time I checked he doesn't run Meridian, and until Bob Stuart joins Head-Fi I would hold off on any kneejerk reactions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_Audio

Disclaimer : I dont have a dog in this fight, but  this thread illustrates the best and worst of the FOTM mentality. I'd like to see a few more impressions of the ME purely as a DAC - either using a separate headamp or into a speaker rig - but we seem to have settled on the sole fly in the ointment as the focus of our discussion.

So much looking forward to my explorer mk2 ;). That's how fast the D/A converter scene moves nowadays. Obsolescence within 72 hours!

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter 

 

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater before you've even heard it with your cans ? If you are so genuinely disturbed by the impedance issue, I'm sure Todd would be a lot happier to get his ME back unopened, but of all the impressions given so far here and elsewhere, the positive far outweigh the negative - even if you do agree with Purrin that it's not your cup of tea, why not give it 48 hours before making that call ?

 

Tyll is an industry insider, but the last time I checked he doesn't run Meridian, and until Bob Stuart joins Head-Fi I would hold off on any kneejerk reactions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_Audio

 

Disclaimer : I dont have a dog in this fight, but  this thread illustrates the best and worst of the FOTM mentality. I'd like to see a few more impressions of the ME purely as a DAC - either using a separate headamp or into a speaker rig - but we seem to have settled on the sole fly in the ointment as the focus of our discussion.

Sorry, my earlier post came across as a little bit lame. I just meant that it was likely I would return it so it's probably better not to break the seal on the box so Todd can resell it easily.

That's [referring to ME] pretty bad design if output impedance is in fact 50 ohm. Not good at all for iem's, yet they consider this thing portable. In real world performance, manufacturers should aim for an output impedance of less than 1 ohm, so it can work perfectly with anything. Not buying this until new model with low output impedance comes around.

MoonUnit - no probs, and that is absolutely your right. I doubt that Todd is very happy about this either.

I'm a bit torn whether I should return mine to Todd.  It was delivered to me a few days ago, and I don't necessarily note any "issues" w/ high impedance for my use:  purely portable use w/ my laptop using IEM's.  Still...it would bug me if/when a lower impedance model is released so soon.  Guess that makes me shallow in a way.

When the LCD-2 was released, most of Head-Fi raved about it. When the Rev2 was released, did the first edition suddenly become a 'bad' headphone ? Tough one. 

Has anyone / any dealers spoken to Meridian about this "issue"? Have they acknowledged a problem? To me there isn't one, the sound with my Shure E530's is as crisp and clean/controlled as with my  sub 1 Ohm Pico DAC output and nothing to suggest that the ME is lacking control as a result of its higher impedance value. I can see that there are certain phones that dont play well with the ME, but isnt this the same issue as with the usual 'synergy' with any amp/speaker combo? Hey my SET amps cant drive my 'hard-to-drive' Revels....doesnt mean there is anything wrong with them. Doesnt feel to me like a V2 is warranted given all the positive praise and small amount of criticism and Ifind it hard to believe, though not impossible that a company with Meridians track record would overlook this. 

For the time being, I'll continue to enjoy my ME and watch from the sidelines for any developments.

I'd be quite surprised if they would offer a rev 2 so fast... does not fit with the image Meridian seems to pursue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clemmaster 

 

The low impedance of your can is the problem. The efficiency is not relevant to the ME's output impedance potential problem (the efficiency is more related to the ME's power output, but it's not an issue here).

 

If the Samson SR850 have a (relatively) flat impedance response across the audible range, then the high output impedance won't change the "intended" (original) frequency response of the cans.

If their impedance response varies a lot with frequency (as occurs on Balanced-Armature IEMs, which have cross-over network with complex impedance, that by nature, varies with frequency), then the intended frequency response will be modified (in general, for the worst, but not always).

 

The amp's output impedance also determine electrical damping. Simply put, the higher the damping factor, the quicker the driver "reacts" (= the more the amp has control over the driver). If the damping factor is too low, the driver will be "loose" and bloom will occur (e.g. in the bass).

The damping factor is defined as DF = Zcan / Zamp. As rule of thumb, DF should be >8. Which means, if the amp has an output impedance of 50R, the can should have an impedance of (at least) 400R.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suopermanni 

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation. I actually expected something something a little less....expansive? Oh well, it's a good learning experience. Anyway, thank you for telling me that, now I know not to get low impedance cans for that device.

My problem is that I'm always expecting something a little more...  like Clemmaster's posts!  

Bring on the details!  It's exceedingly rare to find someone who actually knows what he's talking about -AND- has the ability to communicate so well.

Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingboy 

Has anyone / any dealers spoken to Meridian about this "issue"? Have they acknowledged a problem? To me there isn't one, the sound with my Shure E530's is as crisp and clean/controlled as with my  sub 1 Ohm Pico DAC output and nothing to suggest that the ME is lacking control as a result of its higher impedance value.  I can see that there are certain phones that dont play well with the ME, but isnt this the same issue as with the usual 'synergy' with any amp/speaker combo?

I'm experiencing the same with my FitEar 334s.  All I can say is since this issue became known I've spent significant time back and forth with this and my DragonFly and as much as I'd like to go back to the more compact DF, the Meridian provides significantly better sound throughout the spectrum.  The only thing I could say that might hint at this is the bass is reduced in quantity while the mids are more present and the treble *seems* more extended, but there is better clarity and control everywhere.  Vocals are more intelligible, guitars crunch better, drums/percussion have more power and snap, bass has more depth and lacks bloat, the latter which actually is probably the biggest issue with the DF -> 334/000 pairing - it can sound muddy w/ recordings that have significant amounts of bass.  Perhaps this is a natural quality of this earphone/cable I'm not a fan of, I don't know.  Overall it's a leaner and cleaner sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingboy 

Has anyone / any dealers spoken to Meridian about this "issue"? Have they acknowledged a problem? To me there isn't one, the sound with my Shure E530's is as crisp and clean/controlled as with my  sub 1 Ohm Pico DAC output and nothing to suggest that the ME is lacking control as a result of its higher impedance value. I can see that there are certain phones that dont play well with the ME, but isnt this the same issue as with the usual 'synergy' with any amp/speaker combo? Hey my SET amps cant drive my 'hard-to-drive' Revels....doesnt mean there is anything wrong with them. Doesnt feel to me like a V2 is warranted given all the positive praise and small amount of criticism and Ifind it hard to believe, though not impossible that a company with Meridians track record would overlook this. 

For the time being, I'll continue to enjoy my ME and watch from the sidelines for any developments.

There isn't an issue in the sense the product is functioning as intended. Now, you can't simply swipe under the carpet the fact that the headphone out is a potential  mismatch to a some low impedance phones, severely altering their response. It may indeed work better with your particular headphone and/or taste or else your can is resilient to such high output impedance of the amp and low damping factor, but it's quite unreasonable to assume it's going to sound great no matter what headphone you use. 

Out of curiosity, I went to headroom site to compare the impedance curve of your SE530 to other cans and from a brief look it does not quite vary as much as I expected with frequency. Maybe that's the reason why you're not hearing much difference. But look at the 315, even within the same product family all bets are off:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilch0md 

 

 

My problem is that I'm always expecting something a little more...  like Clemmaster's posts!  

 

Bring on the details!  It's exceedingly rare to find someone who actually knows what he's talking about -AND- has the ability to communicate so well.

 

Mike

Thanks for the nice comment! Particularly since English is not my mother tongue and I always most of the time feel like something is "not right" in what I write ^^

Anyway, the credits should go to Tyll. I'm just repeating the same story with different words (simpler words, due to my lower english skills :D).

And you're modest, too!