Evshrug's "If I knew then what I know now" discussion journal. - Page 3

I'll have to dig through that thread to find your SC settings. I don't believe SC is engaged when you set the receiver to "Straight" and it's definitely not engaged using Pure Direct. Straight sounds good - it has the clarity, but it's very, obviously stereo. Imaging is way off. 

The Recon 3D looks interesting. Some of Mad's cons turned me off of it. I'm sure I could get around the DTS snag by outputting PCM as well. I know the Mix Amp has some issues with certain low frequencies. I'd rather just avoid any of those sorta shortcomings if possible. Nothing's perfect, I know, but there's got to be something close to it out there :) 

I thought about going for a stand-alone receiver with DH but now that I've discovered other options (and was underwhelmed by DH on my Xonar), I'm not sure it's worth adding another bulky receiver to the mix (the Yamaha is really good at everything else). 

Right now it looks like I might settle on J River and some combination of VSTs for movie watching. I'm hoping the Asgard takes everything to the next level and works well double-amped with the Yamaha. If not, then I'll try to find a way to run it out of a sound card. Though with the Yamaha, at least I can make some volume adjustments with a remote :) 

I'd kind of like to figure out a way to get a signal to some bass shakers while the headphones are in use... that would probably round it all out nicely haha... I'll cross that bridge later though.

You might also want to wait a little bit, as with Creative historically... they WILL release a USB version of their current line of soundcards.

Z series USB? I'm pretty sure it's in the works.

If they can retain at least that Maxim MAX97220A headphone amp and half of the other goodies from the actual soundcard, then I think it would be quite a seller.

The thread is coming together nicely so far!  I think it'll be a great resource.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug 

Here's a short, well set up blind test of two different compression bit-rates, I recommend you do it in a quiet environment:
http://mp3ornot.com/

How did that test go? Write in the comments if the results surprised you!

That was fun.  Yay, I got it right!  The differences were subtle; biggest ones between the two seemed to be the soundstage and separation of elements.

Wow, a lot of cool tests in here.  Should I be worried that I couldn't hear above between 16kHz - 17kHz?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug 

My hearing range cuts off somewhere around there too. I wouldn't worry about it, from what I remember about those frequencies they sounded REALLY annoying. Why do you think dogs bark at dog whistles?

Cool.  The only reason I was concerned was because I thought it was perhaps too far away from 20kHz, despite the likelihood that few can actually hear all the way up there.  Yeah, I've heard about the higher frequencies that "young ears" can't stand while "seasoned ears" can't hear at all (I think you mentioned it earlier, but I know I've heard about it elsewhere too).  Perhaps I need to get a hold of that for when my kids get out of line.  Hmm... 

In regards to dog whistles, I was always under the impression that the frequency of the whistle was higher than 20kHz and that's why people couldn't hear it.  I realize I could be wrong about that, though.

I came back here and read everything "properly" this time. Superb stuff :) Anywho, the only was to get PCM/lossless on console is by way of receiver, yeah? I noticed you mentioned Marantz, but it's HDMI 1.1 =/ My monitor actually takes advantage of 1.3, and when OLED comes out, that Marantz 1.1 will not do at all.

BTW!! Sleek-Audio FINALLY came out with the SA7's!! Best wireless headphone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug 

Thanks for the compliment! I hope to do even better!

Only way to get LPCM from a console is through HDMI, which results in needing a receiver. Still doubt it would make an audible difference for compressed console games as opposed to PCM over Optical. One way or another, console audio is compressed, it's like the difference between driving a Volkswagen Beatle on the highway or on the Le Mans track. I'm not trying to tell you to give up – well maybe a little, but only because I doubt you're gonna hear what you want to hear, and I think it's just as important you let go of worrying about max sound and just enjoy very good sound. I also think wireless headphones are inherently a compromise between sound and convenience, though I haven't read anything about those Sleek-Audio's except what you just wrote. Still expect it would be like trying to make a Beatle into an amphibious vehicle Please do report if you discover the Holy Grail, though! I think the wireless laser mouse I bought like a decade ago was a holy grail of precise, ergonomic, wireless mouse
 

Audio on games are compressed... ON THE Xbox 360 (go thank the DVD route that Microsoft took).

Many games on the PS3, particularly first party exclusives or AAA third-party exclusives do have generally uncompressed audio.

Among the popular ones:

MGS4 - very popular for its audio quality, amazing too because Kojima made a point to jam as much uncompressed audio as they can into a dual-layer Blu-ray.

Uncharted series - again, uncompressed.

God of War 3 - again, Sony said not to compromise on audio quality, just go bonkers and fill the entire disc up.

There are many more, but I reaaaalllly do hope that come next-gen... console gamers aren't getting funny compressed audio over their games anymore.

Maybe except for downloadable titles only to keep the file size restriction in place but yeah, retail releases shouldn't have audio compromises considering how much money and talent developers have to fill to get good music, sound design and voices in a game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benbenkr 

Audio on games are compressed... ON THE Xbox 360 (go thank the DVD route that Microsoft took).

Many games on the PS3, particularly first party exclusives or AAA third-party exclusives do have generally uncompressed audio.

 

Among the popular ones:

MGS4 - very popular for its audio quality, amazing too because Kojima made a point to jam as much uncompressed audio as they can into a dual-layer Blu-ray.

Uncharted series - again, uncompressed.

God of War 3 - again, Sony said not to compromise on audio quality, just go bonkers and fill the entire disc up.

 

There are many more, but I reaaaalllly do hope that come next-gen... console gamers aren't getting funny compressed audio over their games anymore.

 

Maybe except for downloadable titles only to keep the file size restriction in place but yeah, retail releases shouldn't have audio compromises considering how much money and talent developers have to fill to get good music, sound design and voices in a game.

Compression isn't necessarily a bad thing...if it's lossless, like FLAC, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS Master Audio. All the quality at a fourth of the space!

Problem is, I get the vibe that a lot of game developers don't really care, because a lot of their audience wouldn't notice the difference. Not just in terms of compression, but the actual audio production process/mastering, support for proper 3D audio over headphones, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug 

Thanks for the compliment! I hope to do even better!

Why is it putting the lines again? Anyway, sure thing! You're doing wonderful as is, and I know it will only get better.

Only way to get LPCM from a console is through HDMI, which results in needing a receiver. Still doubt it would make an audible difference for compressed console games as opposed to PCM over Optical. One way or another, console audio is compressed, it's like the difference between driving a Volkswagen Beatle on the highway or on the Le Mans track. I'm not trying to tell you to give up – well maybe a little, but only because I doubt you're gonna hear what you want to hear, and I think it's just as important you let go of worrying about max sound and just enjoy very good sound. I also think wireless headphones are inherently a compromise between sound and convenience, though I haven't read anything about those Sleek-Audio's except what you just wrote. Still expect it would be like trying to make a Beatle into an amphibious vehicle Please do report if you discover the Holy Grail, though! I think the wireless laser mouse I bought like a decade ago was a holy grail of precise, ergonomic, wireless mouse
Are all Marantz HDMI 1.1 spec? Anyway, you know I'm happy enough substituting THX tech for Dolby tech.

That's what I thought. It may not, but I just like that the entire thing is integrated. I get an amp, dac, virtual surround processor, and what not, all rolled into one. I'll be benefiting on some games, as mentioned below. Nice analogy btw :)

Yes, but the thing is, I'm not looking for the best sound evarrr, in my wireless phones. I just love the convenience of them being wireless so I can do whatever I wanna do, namely exercise, without the worry of the cords or anything else. Go read about them then! :) They talked about them heavily in 2010, a little in 2011, and I, as well as everyone else, thought they'd never come out, but they finally did! I just like the construction of them. If I'm going wireless, that means I'm gonna want something somewhat more rugged.

I have no clue about the Marantz HDMI specs.

I need you or someone to encourage me to wake up tomorrow and finish writing my FiiO Mont Blanc review, so I can post it and get this thread rolling again. I'm going to listen with the amp some more before I fall asleep tonight, hopefully I'll crystalize my thoughts on it.

BTW, Wendy's interview went AWESOME, I nailed it with super-composure (though my hands were slightly shaky once I was done), and I'll know by Monday if they want to immediately put me on management training 0_0

Shift + enter seems to be working, so no lines. Anyway, go you! Dunno why you were nervous. Hey! Look at that, a management position. Wait, didn't u say u had a degree?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessPFG 

 

Compression isn't necessarily a bad thing...if it's lossless, like FLAC, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS Master Audio. All the quality at a fourth of the space!

 

Problem is, I get the vibe that a lot of game developers don't really care, because a lot of their audience wouldn't notice the difference. Not just in terms of compression, but the actual audio production process/mastering, support for proper 3D audio over headphones, etc.

So those codecs are compressed then. It's PCM that's totally uncompressed, then it gets converted into FLAC or the like? Neat.
Yes yes, it's sad. Maybe we here at Head-Fi can spur them to change! Lol.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evshrug 
Creative could be the next Kodak. Used to be a discrete sound card was the only way to get computer audio. Now, they whine about how their business is being cannibalized by built-in motherboard audio. They could die... Or, they could live up to their namesake, think beyond hardware, and pull a Microsoft, licensing their processing technology to other electronics manufacturer's like Dolby and DTS do. Imagine a Steam Box or the next Xbox offering a built-in Headphone port, with Sound Blaster 3D Audio processing. Wow. Sure strengthens the brand image in the public mind. They get a whole casual consumer segment, make money with a previous business competitor, and Creative could STILL offer the same hardware upgrade experiences in discrete soundcards that few people understand as of now. They also MUST get "creative" with better marketing. Demos, visible participation in MLG and eSports tournaments, maybe throw their own gaming event at colleges, reaching out to indie game developers, ... Whatever!

If Creative doesn't do it... someone else probably will. And then, we gamers might get in-game 3D surround audio anyway, when Turtle Beach or Skullcandy buys the tech from a bankrupt Kodak of the gaming world.

The funny thing is, this is more or less what I'm proposing that they do with their 3D gaming audio assets. Make them into an audio middleware for developers everywhere to use, maybe even displace FMOD in the market. If Creative themselves won't do it, someone who will should hopefully buy up all the tech they hold the rights to.

Also, it's very, very likely that CMSS-3D Headphone itself wasn't entirely in-house, but instead borrows a lot from Aureal A3D and Sensaura Virtual Ear. (It's already been said that MacroFX was one of Sensaura's planned additions to their Virtual Ear binaural HRTF mixer, but Creative bought them out before they released it, just before the X-Fi line hit the market.)