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[REVIEW] Woo WA6 vs Schiit Valhalla vs ALO Pan Am. The hard sell.

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 

Today I was buying an amp.

 

Not just any amp, a tube amp...a "one and only/ the best i could get/ ducks nuts/ infecting home visitors into instant audiophile zombies" amp.

 

I narrowed the field of available goods in Australia down to the Valhalla, WA6, and the new Pan Am.

 

Let me begin by saying that im not a professional audio expert by any means, so the opinions below reflect only my personal experiences with these three beasts side by side, with a vast array of music both in genres, and vast in their audio quality and file types.

 

Also worth noting the Pan Am has a DAC, so to keep the results even i tested all units via the LOD on my iphone 4S, thus bypassing any DAC other than the one built into the phone. Same tracks used with each amp, tested with both top end Grado (open) and some DT770 250ohm.

 

Il try to keep it short as i can, in doing so i may inadvertently offend some overly protective owners of any of these fine amps. So in advance i apologize. Im sure should we get to know eachother we would find some common ground and perhaps become the best of friends. However i may think your amp is crap compared to others in its price point, and thats ok because a) Its an amp, and b) I wont judge you personally for any of your retail related decisions.

 

So here we go

 

 

1000

 

 

First off I started with the Woo WA6, again im going to be rather quick.

-warm but pleasantly detailed, a nice surprise

-mids are rich vocals are stunning

-bass is very well represented, i was VERY surprised here as i immediately assumed there would be no comparison with ANY of these amps to my solid state amps with bass boost  a' la C421 etc etc. Not the case, bass was very nice, especially in the upper bass region. No need for any boosting here.

-nice separation

-sound stage... Personally i think this has a LOT more to do with your cans then your amp, but i talked myself into believing theres something in it, if there is indeed some form of amp related soundstaging difference, than the WA6 was great (especially with the Grados rather than 770wink_face.gif). Jokes aside very nice amp, and i was almost sold before i had even begun!

 

The pudding on top for me may be a double edge sword for others pending graphs. No sibilance. Literally none. It actually annoyed me that even with these Grados i was given for the testing when i asked "which headphones are your most sibilant ear piercing bastards", there was nothing. Frustrated i threw everything at it. Poor recordings of Rosemary Clooney, a vinyl rip of putting on the ritz, the highest notes i could find sung by Emilliana Torini, mid 90's Techno 'build ups', Queens' Bicycle, a White Stripes guitar solo, and finally Bach Toccata. Nada.

 

I thought it must be rolling off some high frequency to achieve this, and it might should someone have a graph...However even with the DT770 and velour pads i could still get all the detail i got from any of the other amps without the sibilance. Call it witchcraft, call it Woodoo.

 

The sacrificial virgin lamb:

-Even at high gain i was comfortably at 2:30-3:00 on the dial. Sure it was loud, but it was normal hooligan enjoyment levels, and there was not much room for more if you are deafer than I. I did max it out for a sec, and there is a big step from 3 to full bore- still at low gain i imagine this would be rather useless. Especially disappointing when looking at this thing on paper! It reads like a monster.

 

Next the viking born Schiister, the Valhalla.

-nice mids

-sibilant highs

-lacking bass

-also guttless like the WA6, perhaps more so- however i was using the WA6 on high gain for most of the time.

-gorgeous finish

-got incredibly HOT, much much much hotter than any of the others.

 

The goods on this one for me were the looks, most attractive of the three. Plus i really wanted to like it. I like the makers and their comedic advertising and friendly posts, i like the vibe, i like the name. I just didnt like the product. At all.

 

Sorry guys.

 

Sacrificial screaming burning goat:

moot point. I struggled to like it.

 

Last the all singling all dancing headfonia multi-praised Pan Am.

-small, tiny, cute, convenient, semi "portable" (no ones going anywhere but on vacation with this thing, even with the optional re-named bumbag. But who cares how does it sound?)

-detailed (stock tubes only tested)

-forward 

-lively

-great bass, best subbass of the lot, richest total bass of the lot, perhaps best sub bass of any amp anywhere.

-mids are warm and present, just not as golden as the WA6- however i wouldnt go as far as to say this lacks any mids at all. They just got beat by the Woo-tang on this one thing.

-POWER, on LOW GAIN, this thing ****s (pardon the pun) on the others. I dont know what they are like on paper, but after today im less likely to care about "on paper" ever again.

-tight detailed high end, very clever sound

 

The cherry on top for this amp is the whole sonic-shebang. The guys at headphonia werent lying, it awesome. Better still when you roll the tubes. I couldnt even begin to fathom it with the russian tubes that are reported to improve it so many fold! Oh and a note on those tubes, ALO has them for $9 a PAIR!!!! basshead.gif According to me, you only need the amp, the passport, and the cheeky russian twins to enjoy this amp to its fullest. If you dont already have them an LOD, and a USB cable might pop into it to. Theres the rub. I didnt buy ANY amp today- why you ask??

 

Enter the big fat long dead stinking well loved scarificial boar

the price. 

You think "oh yeah this is $599 (pan am), well worth it! the WA6 is $699" **Australian prices***

Then you realize you need a decent power supply as the included wall wart sounds average at best and really should only bes used for charging. Even if you dont get the portable Passport, and opt for the Gateway which  reportedly doesnt sound as good, to save $50- your still another $150-$200 in the hole. So now we have $798/$800 on a tiny little amp with a BIG personality. Whats that? You need some cables with that? Sure they are $100-$130 each, and why not?

 

So i looked on the Pan Am site before heading out today and saw the bundle deals (click "buy together" in red below the amp pic when entering the pan am page). These bundles are great value! The discounts are HUGE! BUT (and theres a big unpleasant one), even with these EPIC savings you still have to spend at least

-$739(plus shipping plus taxes) for an amp with a power supply without any cables!

 

Campare this to the WA6 Australian price of $699, and the Valhalla price of $400 odd and its a bit glum. Get shipping and taxes from ALO to Australia For the super savings bundle of the "buy together" tab and pay a minimum (goes up depending on shipping method) of $817 for the amp and power supply alone.

 

Buy the whole stack fully loaded with cables extra russian tubes and fast shipping:

$1041.96 Thats a full $301 more than the WA6 at FULL RETAIL, let alone heavily discounted in a bundle. Rest assured the discount is heavy-

without the discount the same bundle including: amp, gateway, passport, lod, cable, and bag $1352.95 shipped +$9 for the russian tubes.

 

So you do save quite a bit in the bundle price, but its still $1000 USD or more for an amp the size of a large pack of cigarettes with 2 tubes in it. Unfortunately the VERY KIND and accommodating forum sponsor and Australian supplier of the ALO Pan Am couldnt match their bundle rates. They did come as close as they could without loosing out (hats off to them, many thanks), but it was $85 more than buying online shipped door to door. Its seems ALO need to recalculate their figures.

 

Sure you get a perfectly ok DAC with it, but its not THAT good, not when you can buy a Woo WA6, a shmic after market cable,  and an ODAC at FULL RETAIL with included power supplies  without having to pay $128 shipping, nor wait 2-5 days for it to arrive for $489 LESS... It also has a more substantial presence on the desk, sure its larger, but its tangible value, not "take my word for it theres a wolfson of some description in this thing" The Pan Am, as small as it is also doesnt have the fit and finish you expect paying that much money. The black is just flat old powder coat black. The Silver is metal flake glitter, which i like, but in a gordy spray paint kinda way. It doesnt look or feel expensive by any stretch, and it doesnt even come with rubber feet.

 

All that being said. If i had so much money that $489 plus a lesser quality dac didnt matter, id still buy the Pan Am. Cause i love the bass, i like that its small, and i could look like a right wanker sitting at a cafe with glowing tubes no power cord and HUGE cans on while sipping a short maciatto and reading the paper... Is this really a good thing?

 

Seriously though, Ken- Dont make the Pan Am affordable, you dont have to mate, just make it comprable to the second most expensive amp in its field besides yours (as a complete powered unit). Also and this is none of my business really, but its a fair call... Perhaps wholesale the bundle too, that way Australian stores can match your direct prices and we wont have to rely on shipping arriving, or products getting damaged in the mail. Plus we get the added benefit of their fantastic service and deep knowledge base. One last note, if possible please supply Australian cords to the Australian market. Its illegal here to use OS cords, insurance wont cover you if your house burns down with one in it even if it was not the fault of the amp. 

 

All that aside if i were able to throw away an extra $400-$500 i prefer ALO's offering, ugly casing and finish, no feet, expensive but mandatory extras and all. For me it just sounded and felt right. 

 

In the end i bought no amp. Im over the idea for the meantime. I came home thinking ill save $85 and buy online from ALO, but then i thought about the Woo6 and ODAC saving. Then i thought about the total cost of any of these solutions VS the sonic gains when compared even to a small portable solid state amp of any description. Sure they both sound better, but being that most "very good amps" can be had for $120-$200, am i spending the extra money on bling and some form of sound improvement? Just how much of a sound improvement? $800-$1100 worth? Not sure.

 

When/if the Pan Am comes down in price to properly represent what it is, ill buy one. Ill buy it knowing its a little overpriced and i dont need it, but i want it anyway. If the Pan Am doesnt considerably drop i MAY eventually cave in for a Woo and separate DAC as an anniversary+birthday present from the wife and oldies.

 

Until then, desktop ampless, and at the desk pantsless,

 

Your pal,

Bigsby.

post #2 of 32
Thread Starter 
The über sexy $799 WA7 (inc DAC)isn't looking so expensive after all. When compared to the total cost of a pan am.
Edited by mrbigsby - 1/2/13 at 1:56am
post #3 of 32
Bigsby, I heard the Pan Am in that same retailer (we are very lucky in Melbourne to have a couple of good head-fi shops) and really like it as well. Like you, wasn't impressed with the Valhalla. Was with the Pan Am, but the total cost is too high.

I might have to find time to head there again someday to try the Woo amps and a Lyr.

Curious you didn't try a Lyr, as that is a hybrid amp like the Pan Am.
post #4 of 32
I tried the WA6 and loved it. I just got all impatient for the waiting time and upgraded to a WA22!!!!! And man, the extra money was worth it;)
post #5 of 32

I agree with you mrbigsby.

 

I originally only planned to buy the Pan Am + Passport, but the "Buy Together" option for the complete package was too enticing. The USB cable length is perfect and the fact that the Pan Am + Passport does not require any power cords, it results in a very simplistic clean set-up.

 

I also have the problem of having only one Canadian retailer for Alo audio. Their prices are more expensive than Alo and they do not offer the "Buy Together" packages as well.

 

Shipping to Canada from Alo was pretty expensive ($80 Fedex international). Custom was about $75. However, purchasing from ALO saved me the taxes (HST 13% in Canada), that I would have had to pay if I bought locally.

 

All in all, I bit the bullet on the complete package and won't look back. I currently have a desktop amp/dac (Burson HA-160DS), but wanted a more portable set-up that I can listen to on the patio and bring around the house with my tablet. Now that I have heard the Pan Am, I'm probably going to sell my Burson.

 

My wallet is hurting a little, but I'm extremely happy with my setup. I've been listening to the $9 Russian tubes for the last few weeks and they are a LOT better than the stock tubes. Mulllard CV4010 tubes are on their way and I"m excited to compare them.

post #6 of 32
Thread Starter 
Morning gents! Thanks for your replies.
Keevs- we are certainly lucky to have A2A and Noisy Motel both in Melbourne! I didn't try the Lyr based on reviews matched to my cans, and it's apparently more extreme high end sound. Hope to catch up some time, perhaps we should organize a Melbourne meet or crawl?

Migasson- I'm holding off for the WA7 right now. Will audition it with the SE and the 22 and let you know how I go!

Ariesq- you made a fine purchase man! Like I said, for all it's faults I love that amp, it's just way too damn overpriced in its market (or any amp market really). One day I may still get one, who knows.
post #7 of 32
Yep A2A are great. That's where I got my WA22 from. I'm now listening to it via a balanced phono stage. You probably know its a balanced amp anyway! Dynamics definitely improve when run via a balanced source. My advice, try it with T90's ... I own a pair. Absolutely my kettle of fish so to speak!
post #8 of 32
Make that 3 head-fi type stores in Melbourne, with Jaben in town.

It would be great to meet up with fellow local head-fiers, but having a new born makes doing things like auditioning gear a real luxury.

I use a Little Dot MkIII in my set up. I think it's a fantastic amp for the price and gets better with tube rolling. I certainly prefer it to the Graham Slee Solo SGRII with PSU I'm currently testing at home.
post #9 of 32
Thread Starter 
I forgot about jaben! Yeah I have a 2 year old, I know how it is:)
Have you tried the mark ivse? I was considering one
post #10 of 32

I was thinking about the MarkIVse as well, but on the Little Dot website, David Zhe of Little Dot himself indicated that the MkIV vs the MkIII is only if you really want to extract the very last bits for your headphones.

 

And some of the extra cost of the MkIVwe is to do with better tubes, which the MkIII version 2.0 onwards can take the "better" tubes that MkIVse uses. So that will be my plan for the MkIII, to upgrade the power and driver tubes even further to see if there is any improvement. I have already upgraded from the stock MkIII tubes to Voshkod Gold Grid power and driver tubes, and it definitely improved it with cleaner and more dynamic sound.

post #11 of 32
Thread Starter 
How is it for bass, say compared to the wa6 or pan am?
post #12 of 32

I haven't tried the WA6. But I think it's pretty close to the Pan Am for bass. The lasting impression form the Pan Am is that it is a really full sounding amp (I tested the Pan Am with its internal DAC).

 

With the new Voshkod tubes, the LD MkIII has a really dynamic, open sound with more then enough bass for me. Currently, the LD MkIII's bass hits slightly harder then the Graham Slee Solo SGRII I'm testing at home. Which surprised me giving the big difference in cost between the two amps.

 

I initially chose the LD MkIII as an inexpensive way of getting into tubes. But so far, none of the amps I've tried so far (Pan Am, Valhalla, Violectric V100, RSA Tomahawk, Solo SGRII) has left me wanting to move on from the LD MkIII. And with potential improvements with tube rolling, the LD MkIII is possibly the best $250 I've spent in this crazy audio journey so far.

 

Having said that, I also really wanted a Pan Am after auditioning it. It's sound gives a good lasting impression. But the cost is just too high for what it is. I think if it had a 24/192 capable input and the Gateway and Pan Am for $599, then it would be a very good DAC/Amp for the money.

post #13 of 32

You mentioned tube rolling on the Pan Am, but not on the Woo?  The Woo is one of the most rollable amps out there. Put a Sophia Princess or a NOS GZ34 rectifier in the Woo and step back, it becomes a much more dynamic amp, and a heck of a lot of fun.  $200 bucks changes the amp's sound dramatically.

post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbigsby View Post

How is it for bass, say compared to the wa6 or pan am?

 

Try some Mullard CV4010 with Pan-Am,  I've tried several 6AK5s it brings strongest bass.

post #15 of 32

WA7 vs Pan Am driving the LCD-2: that would be a great fight! (with Mullard CV4010 on one hand and Electro Harmonix 6C45 one the other) rolleyes.gif

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › [REVIEW] Woo WA6 vs Schiit Valhalla vs ALO Pan Am. The hard sell.