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post #1141 of 1841

I can third that for customer service.  He is very patient and also very easy to talk to.  Definately some of the best customer service out there.  

post #1142 of 1841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zashoomin View Post
 

I can third that for customer service.  He is very patient and also very easy to talk to.  Definately some of the best customer service out there.  

 

Well I have to say that Mark is quite the gentleman. My lack of patience was just that,

my questions are answered  and the unit is shipped. I look forward to a long and pleasurable

relationship with Resonessence. Thanks to all who shared there experience. 

post #1143 of 1841

Concero HP just arrived and giving it a listen. It's very good with the HD800. Amazing value for an all-in-one solution. Looks great, easily portable, and does upsampling DAC+AMP+DSD/DXD all in one go. 

 

Pair one with a good used pair of HD800's, and you're at Summit-Fi "base camp" for under $2k.

 

Sheesh. It's just too easy nowadays. 

post #1144 of 1841

do you have anything to compare the pairing of the hd800?

post #1145 of 1841

My Concero is up and running. I am amazed. This is my first dac

and first experience with computer music. I am hooked and I would

like to thank all who have helped with my choices to arrive at this point, 

especially GREED on this forum. 

Thanks

post #1146 of 1841

I was wondering what peoples opinion is of the use of the ESS9018-2M in the Concero HD and HP versus the full blown ESS9018 DAC. I see the DNR of this DAC is rated at 127 db verses 133 db for the 9018. The Concero HD looks to be a good fit for me however there is lots of competition in this price range and other companies are using the full blown 9018 DAC. Is it really that much of a difference between the two?

 

http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC

post #1147 of 1841

The big, eight-channel ES9018 uses too much power for it to be possibly used in any Concero unit, because Concero is USB-powered, and thus must fall within the 500 mA limit. I imagine the next generation of high-end DAPs will be using the ES9018-2M for the same reason --- power restrictions.

 

Regarding the actual design differences, my guess is that, beyond the ES9018 being eight-channel and the 2M being two-channel, the 2M might've gotten a die shrink, to further reduce power requirements and to allow it to fit in a 28-QFN package. But who knows what the actual differences are. All the core technologies should be the same, however.

 

Of course, the 2M won't perform as well because it is putting all the processing power into two channels, whereas an ES9018 can distribute processing across four channels for each side of the stereo image, further improving SNR, IMD, and THD+N. The 2M, reading purely from specs, should perform near on par with the old ES9016 (which was used in the headamp section for the 1st Invicta). The amp stage of the Concero HP (and the line output of the HD as well) is similar in implementation to the Invicta's, except perhaps that the Invicta could juice the amp a bit better. I've never used nor encountered the Invicta and its headamp before, so I can't comment for sure how it performs, but from peoples' impressions, it's amazing. I am already amazed by how well the HP can perform, and it clearly plays a level above all other USB-powered devices. The only thing it's lacking is that it might not have the sheer power to juice the hungriest cans, and stereo separation may suffer slightly because of that. Luckily, I'm primarily an IEM user, and the HP works amazingly well for that purpose. I feel I can use the HP for many years to come.

post #1148 of 1841
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

The big, eight-channel ES9018 uses too much power for it to be possibly used in any Concero unit, because Concero is USB-powered, and thus must fall within the 500 mA limit. I imagine the next generation of high-end DAPs will be using the ES9018-2M for the same reason --- power restrictions.

 

Regarding the actual design differences, my guess is that, beyond the ES9018 being eight-channel and the 2M being two-channel, the 2M might've gotten a die shrink, to further reduce power requirements and to allow it to fit in a 28-QFN package. But who knows what the actual differences are. All the core technologies should be the same, however.

 

Of course, the 2M won't perform as well because it is putting all the processing power into two channels, whereas an ES9018 can distribute processing across four channels for each side of the stereo image, further improving SNR, IMD, and THD+N. The 2M, reading purely from specs, should perform near on par with the old ES9016 (which was used in the headamp section for the 1st Invicta). The amp stage of the Concero HP (and the line output of the HD as well) is similar in implementation to the Invicta's, except perhaps that the Invicta could juice the amp a bit better. I've never used nor encountered the Invicta and its headamp before, so I can't comment for sure how it performs, but from peoples' impressions, it's amazing. I am already amazed by how well the HP can perform, and it clearly plays a level above all other USB-powered devices. The only thing it's lacking is that it might not have the sheer power to juice the hungriest cans, and stereo separation may suffer slightly because of that. Luckily, I'm primarily an IEM user, and the HP works amazingly well for that purpose. I feel I can use the HP for many years to come.

 

This.

 
I've discussed the differences with the designer and he confirmed it is a whole new die - smaller package, lesser power requirements, totally different registers. I agree that we will probably see more of them popping up soon. 
 
Someone had speculated at one point that maybe the new model was simply a binned ES9018 which didn't pass muster on all channels - a clever idea, but simply not true. The ES9012 may be just such an animal (I'm not positive) but I don't recall any commercial DAC using it. 
post #1149 of 1841
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
I am already amazed by how well the HP can perform, and it clearly plays a level above all other USB-powered devices. The only thing it's lacking is that it might not have the sheer power to juice the hungriest cans, and stereo separation may suffer slightly because of that. Luckily, I'm primarily an IEM user, and the HP works amazingly well for that purpose. I feel I can use the HP for many years to come.

 

I think the Concero HP will drop a few jaws at the Dallas meet. Alone, it is very nearly the equal of my Concero + Decware CSP2+ rig (which in total is more than double the price of the HP). The only exception is the lack of sweet tube magic which I absolutely must have in a headphone rig... HP can't get there by itself. Dang.

 

But otherwise, yeah, wow, what a package. Can't beat the portability either. In that respect it's an AWESOME amp for the HD800... might have to get one for just that purpose. Decware gear doesn't exactly fit in an airline carryon. ;)

post #1150 of 1841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post
 

 

I think the Concero HP will drop a few jaws at the Dallas meet. Alone, it is very nearly the equal of my Concero + Decware CSP2+ rig (which in total is more than double the price of the HP). The only exception is the lack of sweet tube magic which I absolutely must have in a headphone rig... HP can't get there by itself. Dang.

 

But otherwise, yeah, wow, what a package. Can't beat the portability either. In that respect it's an AWESOME amp for the HD800... might have to get one for just that purpose. Decware gear doesn't exactly fit in an airline carryon. ;)

 

That's a pretty amazing commendation especially coming from you nick... seems like I'll have to pick the HD up for myself sometime this year to get a listen.

post #1151 of 1841

Yep... I could hardly believe it. The HP represents an even greater value-for-the-dollar proposition than the original Concero. My Decware+Concero rig is not even close to being portable and is at least $1000 more.

 

Worth it? To me, yes. I need that liquid tube magic in the mix. When it's not there, I notice... and I want it back.

 

But for others? Probably not. That extra $1000 doesn't scale as high anymore because the HP just smashed the value curve. Which is a little annoying because for the money I'd rather the Decware be closer to the Liquid Glass in terms of sound quality than the HP... but that's the way things roll around here. Technology just keeps marching on and on, relentlessly.

 

I'm still quite happy with my rig & will keep it as-is. But yeah, for $850, the HP delivers a f***-ton of value as an HD800 solution. It's a must-try.


Edited by Nick Dangerous - 9/24/13 at 12:58pm
post #1152 of 1841

Interested in purchasing a used Concero if anyone is thinking of selling theirs. My email is d_pumphrey@msn.com or send me a PM.

post #1153 of 1841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post
 

Yep... I could hardly believe it. The HP represents an even greater value-for-the-dollar proposition than the original Concero. My Decware+Concero rig is not even close to being portable and is at least $1000 more.

 

Worth it? To me, yes. I need that liquid tube magic in the mix. When it's not there, I notice... and I want it back.

 

But for others? Probably not. That extra $1000 doesn't scale as high anymore because the HP just smashed the value curve. Which is a little annoying because for the money I'd rather the Decware be closer to the Liquid Glass in terms of sound quality than the HP... but that's the way things roll around here. Technology just keeps marching on and on, relentlessly.

 

I'm still quite happy with my rig & will keep it as-is. But yeah, for $850, the HP delivers a f***-ton of value as an HD800 solution. It's a must-try.

 

Na I love the decware sound so I totally get you there. Even though I'm selling my taboo, the overall sound will not be forgotten because it is special indeed. If the HP+HD800 is equivalent to the CSP minus the decware sound, that's pretty ridiculous. One crazy value for sure. To see multiple people whos opinions I respect vouching for this dac makes it all the more intriguing. I would not have expected the HP out to be so good, but it sounds like it must be amazing for HD800 lovers on a budget.

post #1154 of 1841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post
 

 If the HP+HD800 is equivalent to the CSP minus the decware sound, that's pretty ridiculous. One crazy value for sure. To see multiple people whos opinions I respect vouching for this dac makes it all the more intriguing. I would not have expected the HP out to be so good, but it sounds like it must be amazing for HD800 lovers on a budget.

 

Not completely equivalent, but close enough to warrant a demo. ;)

 

Let me put it this way... if I had started with the HP, I might not entertain the idea of giving it up and paying $1000 more to jump to the CSP+Concero. But, having already sprung for them, I'm happy to stay where I am. 


Edited by Nick Dangerous - 9/24/13 at 3:59pm
post #1155 of 1841

Also... I prefer the sound of the original Concero. The HD/HP has a smidge more energy up top which isn't optimal in my rig.

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