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PONO - Neil Youngs portable hi-res music player - Page 16

post #226 of 4585

Neil Young surpasses Kickstarter goal within one day | Music | theguardian.com

post #227 of 4585

Ooh, Sabre DAC!

 

post #228 of 4585
Only 8 hours playback frown.gif my Tera does better, plus we need all the technical specification for the Pono.
post #229 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

I just received the following e-mail from PONO:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

NEIL YOUNG LAUNCHES KICKSTARTER CAMPAIGN FOR PONOMUSIC


WE ARE NOW LIVE ON KICKSTARTER!

DIRECT LINK: http://kck.st/1g5xVf3

Long-Awaited Product Features Full Ecosystem, Major Label Agreements, and Access to Studio Masters To Deliver Transformative Listening Experience

March 11, 2014 – (Santa Monica, CA.) – PonoMusic, a revolutionary movement conceived and founded by Neil Young with a mission to restore the soul of music, announced today that it is officially moving out of the R&D phase and is “open for business” with the launch of its Kickstarter campaign for the PonoPlayer.

The Kickstarter campaign features testimonials from some of the most notable musicians, including Sting, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John and Norah Jones, discussing their experience with the PonoPlayer.
PONO_Backdrop.jpg
PonoMusic is a full system that includes both an online music store, PonoMusic.com, and a playback device, the PonoPlayer. The PonoPlayer offers a digital music listening experience that transcends the limitations of a multi-function smart phone. The company’s goal is to bring the highest quality digital music to discerning consumers by returning to the original studio masters to capture music the way its creators intended - with the emotion, detail, and power intact.

"It's about the music, real music.  We want to move digital music into the 21st century and PonoMusic does that. We couldn't be more excited - not for ourselves, but for those that are moved by what music means in their lives," said Neil Young, founder and chairman of PonoMusic

The PonoPlayer is a purpose-built, portable, high-resolution digital-music player that has been engineered in a "no-compromise" fashion, to allow consumers to experience studio master-quality digital music at the highest audio fidelity possible. It can be used with earbuds or headphones, home stereo systems, the Sonos Connect, and in most cars. The PonoPlayer brings forth the true emotion and detail of the music, the way the artist recorded it. It features a convenient and simple LCD touch screen interface that is totally intuitive. The audio technology in the PonoPlayer was developed in conjunction with the engineering team at Ayre Acoustics, a leader in digital audio technology in Boulder, Colorado.  

The Pono desktop media management application allows customers to download, manage and sync their music. PonoMusic.com, an essential part of the ecosystem, will offer the highest-resolution digital music from both major labels and prominent independent labels  

"Our goal is to offer the highest quality digital music available from all the major labels and build the world’s best sounding, easy-to-use portable music player.  We’ve achieved our goal and we are excited to launch our Kickstarter campaign to invite music lovers everywhere to join the PonoMusic community and reserve a PonoPlayer for their own enjoyment," said John Hamm, CEO of PonoMusic.   

PonoMusic and Ayre Acoustics have collaborated to achieve a lofty goal - to make the power and majesty of music available to everybody. “We are absolutely thrilled to be a part of this project and will always be grateful to Neil Young for changing the landscape of recorded music," said Charlie Hansen, CEO of Ayre Acoustics.

The PonoPlayer has 128GB of memory and can store from about 200 to 800 high-resolution digital-music songs, depending on the resolution and length of the original recording. Additional memory cards can be used to store and play different playlists and additional collections of music. The PonoPlayer will be sold at PonoMusic.com for $399 MSRP and is available for pre-order at a discount on our Kickstarter.

General inquiries:

info@ponomusic.com

www.ponomusic.com

 

What a crock! So, after substantially more than a year since Neil was touting his Toblerone-lookalike, DAP on Letterman, he and his team are now claiming to be 'open for business' - well how are they 'open for business' if they've just opened a Kickstarter campaign in order to finance it? That's more like we want to open for business, but can't yet because we're skint.

 

Oh, and we want $399 for something that literally looks like a chocolate bar. It has a 'zero-feedback' circuit, but it still looks exactly like a Toblerone:

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Our goal is to offer the highest quality digital music available from all the major labels and build the world’s best sounding, easy-to-use portable music player.  We’ve achieved our goal ...." said John Hamm, CEO of PonoMusic.

 

WOW... Well, I guess you showed iBasso, HiFiMan, Calyx, iRiver, and Sony, then, didn't you? :rolleyes:   I appreciate that Ayre have the ability to create an excellent digital audio player, but a bit of humility and respect for competitors wouldn't go amiss, now, would it? We will just have to wait and see if Ayre's self-congratulation is warranted or not, in comparison to TOTL DAPs from the aforementioned makers.

 

 

PonoMusic and Ayre Acoustics have collaborated to achieve a lofty goal - to make the power and majesty of music available to everybody. “We are absolutely thrilled to be a part of this project and will always be grateful to Neil Young for changing the landscape of recorded music," said Charlie Hansen, CEO of Ayre Acoustics.

 

So, 24/192-capable DAPs apparently fail to "...make the power and majesty of music available to everybody".  I bet everyone here on Head-fi, and all the aformentioned DAP-makers, are gutted that only the PONO player has this ability.

 

...and, of course, before Neil Young started the PONO venture, we were all still listening to .mp3s and .aacs, weren't we? There wasn't such a thing as 24/96, 24/192, .dsd, etc.

Jeeez... what a 'hero' for changing the landscape of recorded music... :rolleyes:

 

 

Personally, I find it insulting that the implication appears to be that PONO will be solely responsible for lifting the audio and portable hi-fi world out of the mud-&-miasma of low-res reproduction.

 

 


This post originally included discussion of DRM limitations of the PONO ecosystem, but 'bpower' informed me, 4 posts lower down (thankyou), that DRM is now not going to be a component of the PONO ecosystem, after all, so I've removed that discussion, accordingly.


 

 

Some older (now outdated, in terms of the DRM aspect) related threads:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/680853/sony-nwz-zx1-35th-walkman-anniversary-model/1335#post_10042627

http://www.head-fi.org/t/680853/sony-nwz-zx1-35th-walkman-anniversary-model/1335#post_10042715

http://www.head-fi.org/t/680208/sonys-dsd-capable-pha-2-portable-headphone-amp-dac/150#post_9859368

 

 

I really think the PONO ecosystem can only be good for us, the pre-PONO audiophiles, if you will. Sure, they may not have anything actually original in terms of format or hardware, but they do have 1) an integrated ecosystem and 2) a good start on the marketing. If PONO is successful by any measure, its widespread adoption signals a huge change in consumer perceptions about audio and audio quality, which in turn will lead to more competition in the hi-res market, in music offerings and hardware both.

 

Maybe this will help bring down the prices of the gear we love to acquire––I know I'd love that. And perhaps, if we're lucky, the price of the actual music.

 

Maybe it will help bring "x" artist you always wish released his stuff on HDTracks to release on PONO (and likely HDTracks as well).

 

I think their marketing, however pretentious, will be a boon to us all once this market disruption has time to spread across the entire industry.

 

 

 

On another note, though, I was certain back when I first heard of PONO that it'd be a little more revolutionary, perhaps actually reMIXing the music (remastering alone won't cause the ears of the artists in that video to perk up like they did) or something along that line. I'm a little disappointed to see that it wasn't, but it makes sense. What label is going to pay to have their music mastered twice, or even thrice, depending on the mode of distribution?

post #230 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post

Pricing seems very reasonable and i wish i was early enough to grab one of Neil Young's signature editions. Stupid time zones. Living on the other side of the world. Bah. 

Are there any other available specs ? Output Impedence etc

"The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the PonoPlayer delivers perfectly flat frequency response and wide volume range using virtually any set of headphones."
post #231 of 4585
I was hesitating on ordering a Chrome Herbie Hancock but I dislike the shape and most of all, I do not see what this player brings to the game.
post #232 of 4585

For the money, I backed the PONO Foo Fighters edition. I have an iBasso DX50, so I guess that this might be a step up from it, if not - well so be it. It sure looks like this might be something that can step up the game for digital audio so what the heck.

post #233 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

I was hesitating on ordering a Chrome Herbie Hancock but I dislike the shape and most of all, I do not see what this player brings to the game.

Of course there are other music players.  However,compared to the iDevices that most consumers are using now, it supports up to 24/192 high resolution music files.  Also the audio circuit is designed by Ayre Audio, including the digital filter they developed for their high end products.  So it has the potential to be a great DMP.  

 

Perhaps the bigger picture is to broaden the base of people interested in, and buying, high res files.  If they succeed there, then that will also help all of us head-fi.

 

Fingers crossed on the headphone amplifier section.  Time will tell.

post #234 of 4585
...wonder if there's a recommended headphones list. Would be a shame to see folks marching about with these hooked up to a pair of Beats biggrin.gif
post #235 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

Ooh, Sabre DAC!


Yay Dwight! XD
But yeah, implementation is still more important for a DAC. It can use the best DAC in the world, but it can sound bad if it's poorly implemented.
post #236 of 4585

Jesus this year has been an amazing year for hi-fi. New optimal headphone EQ curves (Focal spirit classic + pro / NAD hp50), and now this. I also just learned about the Schitt Valhalla, which is a MUST buy in my book. Anyway, the inner objective in me is skeptical that 24bit 192k is actually better than CD quality, but ofcourse I'll have to try it for myself, or just wait for YouTube videos of blind listening tests (which are sure to come due to the huge stirr this has caused).

 

Honestly what the industry needs to do is revert back to dynamic music and stop the crap with the loudness wars. Not even 192k can undo that damage.

 

I dont approve of the pono player not releasing official specs like Schitt or JDS Labs. At least they told us one solid thing- the amplifier is feedbackless. Assuming this is classD, the amps measured performance will definitely be interesting due to its feedback less design.

 

Oh man, I do wish NwAvGuy was still around. His posts about this would be an absolute riot.


Edited by Xaborus - 3/12/14 at 12:03pm
post #237 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaborus View Post
 

The loudness wars. Not even 192k can undo that damage.

I may be the only person on H.F. to not understand. What does the" loudness war' mean?

post #238 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaborus View Post

 
The loudness wars. Not even 192k can undo that damage.
I may be the only person on H.F. to not understand. What does the" loudness war' mean?
Basically making the whole music track louder, sometimes clipping the audio signal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
http://dr.loudness-war.info/


Extra "for your information" things while on the topic.
http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
http://www.head-fi.org/t/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded
http://www.drewdaniels.com/audible.pdf
Edited by miceblue - 3/12/14 at 12:36pm
post #239 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Basically making the whole music track louder, sometimes clipping the audio signal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
http://dr.loudness-war.info/

Extra "for your information" things.
http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
http://www.head-fi.org/t/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded
http://www.drewdaniels.com/audible.pdf

Wikipedia G-d bless you.....i'll read up thanks!

post #240 of 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatmap View Post
 

Of course there are other music players.  However,compared to the iDevices that most consumers are using now, it supports up to 24/192 high resolution music files.  Also the audio circuit is designed by Ayre Audio, including the digital filter they developed for their high end products.  So it has the potential to be a great DMP.  

 

Perhaps the bigger picture is to broaden the base of people interested in, and buying, high res files.  If they succeed there, then that will also help all of us head-fi.

 

Fingers crossed on the headphone amplifier section.  Time will tell.

 

Wow, I can't believe people still aren't getting this. Please tell me why would anybody care about hi-rez ? Nobody, unless in a quiet room with excellent speakers or very good cans, can hear the difference between 320kbs MP3 and hi-rez lossless. Can you guys get that fact into your heads?

 

Contrary to popular opinion on every damn "audiophile" site, your average audio consumer ain't stupid. They know what they want. The most common reaction I've got to my set-up is "Yeah, its a bit better than mine but it not worth the extra money. I just care about the music". And you know what? They're dead right. On the other hand if you give them 2 cds of the same album, one mastered expertly and the other done poorly, which will they spend their 10 bucks on? 

 

Im sorry for being a bit strident, and I dont mean to criticise flatmap personally, but this really gets annoys me. Im stunned that most of the community doesn't seem to realise what the real problem is. Its the mastering not the bit rate or resolution. I love pop music but I cant listen to most stuff on my best gear because it sounds bloody awful regardless of bitrate. I listen to it on decentish speakers and its fine. 

 

So are we saying to normal consumers "Hey you guys! Why dont you buy top notch cans. And rebuy all your albums in the same mastering in hi-rez for 17 bucks each. Then strap a DAC/AMP to your phone and fill it to the brim with 8 whole albums. Your phone is now the size of a kebab and your favourite music sounds like ****. Hooray!!!"

 

If the studios went back and remastered the worst offenders and sold them on iTunes they'd fly off the shelves. Someone earlier mentioned Californication. How much would you pay for a perfectly remastered version of that on 320kbs MP3? Now how much would you pay for the current mastering in hi-rez?

 

Ok rant over and Im not going to mention it again. Its depressing.

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