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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2
May 2, 2013 at 5:28 AM Post #10,921 of 21,761
Apparently there will be a new SE series by Shure........ Why does this always happen to me 
frown.gif

 
May 2, 2013 at 8:10 AM Post #10,926 of 21,761
So, something about BioShock Infinite's ending has been bugging me....
 
 
First, let's set some ground assumptions so that this doesn't get too unwieldy.
 
1. Elizabeth has powers because a piece of her resides in another reality (her pinky). So in effect she can bridge the gap between multiple realities. Let's just pretend this makes sense.
 
2. Comstock could see alternate versions of reality using Lutece field-generated tears in the fabric of his reality. He sees a version of the future that appeals to him and his perverse plans (which came about because baptisms can make you into a self righteous prick bent on world domination). In one of these visions, he sees himself with a daughter. Comstock tries to have his own, but he shoots blanks because tears give you physical side effects. So the twins set out to find an alternate reality where Comstock has a daughter, takes that child, and gives it to their Comstock.
 
3. Cue pinky accident, girl has powers, self fulfilling prophecy. Okay.
 
4. Comstock discovers her powers to bring realities together and make stuff from one appear in another. Presumably he wants to use this power to further his plans?
 
Here's where things get confusing for me. 
 
5. When Booker kills himself in Comstock-form, Elizabeth says it's meaningless because Comstock/Booker still exists in many other realities (presumably an infinite number of them). Because of this, we can conclude there's an infinite number of "bad" Bookers.
 
6. Presumably this is bad, because in some of these realities Booker still has Elizabeth's power in essence because he either utilizes it somehow (the siphon) or he brainwashes her into carrying out his will. This would allow him to not just screw up his own reality, but also other realities. And really "some" in this case is an infinite number, as a subset of infinity. So there's an infinite number of Bookers out there who are "bad" and can potentially screw up the multiverse.
 
7. If Booker is to stop this, he must "stop himself" and die before he undergoes the trigger event of a baptism (the event where presumably the infinite number of bad Booker permutations results from). A few problems with this to my mind. If we're talking about infinite possibility, then there's an infinite number of trigger events. The baptism would be just one in an infinite series, each one resulting in another infinite of infinites. Wouldn't there be other potentially worse Bookers resulting from entirely different events? Like a Booker hell bent on giving everyone herpes because he's resentful over sleeping with a prozzy after Wounded Knee?
 
8. Furthermore, why would a single permutation of Booker dying as an adult result in all possible Bookers dying? Would you literally have to kill him as a baby? I get that killing him before the trigger event leads to all *those* trigger-event specific Bookers going bye-bye. However see point #7. Other potential trigger events, potentially worse Bookers or Comstocks.
 
9. Furthermore, as the twins say, when you're dead you're really not dead because time is more of an ocean and not a river. So how is Booker "erased?"
 
10. The only explanation I can think of is Elizabeth using her tear-powers to bring "dead Booker" into other realities. Basically Booker would be dead in each of those possible worlds.
 
11. But it seems to me like you HAVE to allow for possible worlds where Booker is alive. Indeed, the game implies this is so by showing a Booker who never sold his daughter (...to himself). Going beyond this, what about the possible world where Elizabeth decides to save Booker by fighting her other possible selves who don't want to save him? All possible Elizabeths seem to want to go along with this plan, as the game shows, but that seems to be giving her too much power. She's not like the twins who basically exist outside of spacetime.
 
 
May 2, 2013 at 8:22 AM Post #10,927 of 21,761
Oh, also...
 
 
The game has a seemingly "soft" view of infinite possibility and choice. Like, it still seems to have a mechanism of fate in place. Actions seem to change things, but at the same time pool around them and tend to fall into a chain of inevitable outcomes. Like there are certain key events that have to happen seemingly, and the events that can be changed are like the tears Elizabeth has access to: they can be either ON or OFF so to speak.
 
May 2, 2013 at 8:54 AM Post #10,929 of 21,761
Quote:
veyrongatti said:
Apparently there will be a new SE series by Shure........ Why does this always happen to me 
frown.gif
Click to expand...

 

 
Linky? Also you suddenly remind me of that Weird Al track. I listened to a lot of Weird Al in high school. I've been thinking of getting a big CD set to relive the memories... (seriously).
 
May 2, 2013 at 9:27 AM Post #10,930 of 21,761
Quote:
muppetface said:
Oh, also...
 
 
The game has a seemingly "soft" view of infinite possibility and choice. Like, it still seems to have a mechanism of fate in place. Actions seem to change things, but at the same time pool around them and tend to fall into a chain of inevitable outcomes. Like there are certain key events that have to happen seemingly, and the events that can be changed are like the tears Elizabeth has access to: they can be either ON or OFF so to speak.
Click to expand...

 
Interesting, I found this many universes idea compelling, but I think the problem when it is followed consistently is that it results in complete absurdity ie that everything and anything that is possible is real in one of the infinite universes.  In the end it always has to come back to forming an engaging narrative, even if the consistency of the universe suffers.
 
May 2, 2013 at 11:27 AM Post #10,932 of 21,761
Someone sent me a PM this morning with a lead on where I could find a long since out-of-production IEM. I've been searching for this particular model for a while now, and it's incredibly rare to find one in like-new condition these days. Here's hoping I can snag it. Anyway, I really appreciate the heads up. You know who you are. Thank you so very much, good sir!
 
Also what's up with this new Stage Diver semi-universal from a company called InEar Monitoring? I don't really want to look through the threads here on head-fi, but the product is intriguing. Thoughts?
 
May 2, 2013 at 11:32 AM Post #10,933 of 21,761
Mimouille is on it - he might be ordering a pair very soon. Seems to be garnering good impressions from German hi-fi sites or something. Looks very similar to FitEar in more ways than one
 
May 2, 2013 at 11:40 AM Post #10,934 of 21,761
Quote:
jgray91 said:
Dog making omelette vid.
Click to expand...

 
Cute, and sweet. 
smile.gif

 
Quote:
muppetface said:
So, something about BioShock Infinite's ending has been bugging me....
 
First, let's set some ground assumptions so that this doesn't get too unwieldy.
 
1. Elizabeth has powers because a piece of her resides in another reality (her pinky). So in effect she can bridge the gap between multiple realities. Let's just pretend this makes sense.
 
2. Comstock could see alternate versions of reality using Lutece field-generated tears in the fabric of his reality. He sees a version of the future that appeals to him and his perverse plans (which came about because baptisms can make you into a self righteous prick bent on world domination). In one of these visions, he sees himself with a daughter. Comstock tries to have his own, but he shoots blanks because tears give you physical side effects. So the twins set out to find an alternate reality where Comstock has a daughter, takes that child, and gives it to their Comstock.
 
3. Cue pinky accident, girl has powers, self fulfilling prophecy. Okay.
 
4. Comstock discovers her powers to bring realities together and make stuff from one appear in another. Presumably he wants to use this power to further his plans?
 
Here's where things get confusing for me. 
 
5. When Booker kills himself in Comstock-form, Elizabeth says it's meaningless because Comstock/Booker still exists in many other realities (presumably an infinite number of them). Because of this, we can conclude there's an infinite number of "bad" Bookers.
 
6. Presumably this is bad, because in some of these realities Booker still has Elizabeth's power in essence because he either utilizes it somehow (the siphon) or he brainwashes her into carrying out his will. This would allow him to not just screw up his own reality, but also other realities. And really "some" in this case is an infinite number, as a subset of infinity. So there's an infinite number of Bookers out there who are "bad" and can potentially screw up the multiverse.
 
7. If Booker is to stop this, he must "stop himself" and die before he undergoes the trigger event of a baptism (the event where presumably the infinite number of bad Booker permutations results from). A few problems with this to my mind. If we're talking about infinite possibility, then there's an infinite number of trigger events. The baptism would be just one in an infinite series, each one resulting in another infinite of infinites. Wouldn't there be other potentially worse Bookers resulting from entirely different events? Like a Booker hell bent on giving everyone herpes because he's resentful over sleeping with a prozzy after Wounded Knee?
 
8. Furthermore, why would a single permutation of Booker dying as an adult result in all possible Bookers dying? Would you literally have to kill him as a baby? I get that killing him before the trigger event leads to all *those* trigger-event specific Bookers going bye-bye. However see point #7. Other potential trigger events, potentially worse Bookers or Comstocks.
 
9. Furthermore, as the twins say, when you're dead you're really not dead because time is more of an ocean and not a river. So how is Booker "erased?"
 
10. The only explanation I can think of is Elizabeth using her tear-powers to bring "dead Booker" into other realities. Basically Booker would be dead in each of those possible worlds.
 
11. But it seems to me like you HAVE to allow for possible worlds where Booker is alive. Indeed, the game implies this is so by showing a Booker who never sold his daughter (...to himself). Going beyond this, what about the possible world where Elizabeth decides to save Booker by fighting her other possible selves who don't want to save him? All possible Elizabeths seem to want to go along with this plan, as the game shows, but that seems to be giving her too much power. She's not like the twins who basically exist outside of spacetime.
 
Click to expand...

 
this newly formed Booker Death Squad (made up of Elizabeths) will have to take down all Bookers in all parallel universes everywhere.  The game was only one of those instances.  If that's the case, then I can begin to see where a future DLC might come from.

On the subject of fate, maybe there's a chance that Columbia (and all that it entails) will happen anyway?

I wouldn't mind seeing a DLC where a whole bunch of Elizabeths come and pull our Booker out, right before he dies, only to tell him that they've spent some 10 odd years killing Bookers, and that it hasn't done a damn thing.  Finally they realize that it's not about killing Booker, but about Killing the Luteces... thus giving us yet another DLC.
 
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