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V-Moda / M-100 NON Fanboy feedback

post #1 of 324
Thread Starter 

As the launch of the new M-100's draws near, I'm wondering if there are any level-headed and unbiased people out here like myself who are moderately interested in these headphones?   The main thread seems to have lost most of its sanity and credibility.  As soon as the name Steve Jobs popped up I knew it was time to go.

 

I purchased a pair of M-80's for portable use, and while I'm happy with them for that purpose, personally speaking, their sound signature leaves a lot to be desired.  Overall, when considering style, durability, and comfort along with sound, I certainly can't complain, they're the best all-around pair in this category (for me).  However, I'm ideally looking for more sparkle and less bloat in the sound.  Could this be where the M-100's will sit?  And if they're not HUGE, maybe they'll be portable enough?   

 

I listen to a wide variety of rock n roll.  From the classics like Led Zeppelin, Queen, the Rolling Stones, Thin Lizzy and Elton John, through the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Audioslave...Lifehouse and 3 Doors Down.  I've been using the song "Soul to Squeeze" by RHCP to judge the sound from headphones to headphones.  The harmonics in the beginning and the sharp crack of the tight snare drum is where the M-80's fall short - they're too soft - the detail just isn't there.  I'll bump this thread after the M-100's launch and hopefully someone can discuss their sound signature from a neutral standpoint - as well as their potential portability??? 

post #2 of 324

I read a lot in the other thread and I don't expect a neutral sounding hp at all.

They have probably even more low-end empahsis than the m-80.

 

Let's wait and see :)

post #3 of 324
Thread Starter 

Really?  I think that would be a big mistake.  I love bass, don't get me wrong, but I think the M-80's are already pushing the envelope.  Today I was playing around with the preset EQ settings in my Ipod and was actually quite shocked at how much (natural) bass is present.  Forget about Treble boost or Bass reducer....even going from the Flat setting to Un-EQ'd was drastic.  Maybe that's why I get the feeling of 'bloat' with the M-80's.  I can't imagine what the LP's must sound like, lol. 
 

post #4 of 324

I really do kind of find it puzzling how you say there is "bloat" with the M-80s - but I guess everyone has different tastes.  Personally, I feel the level of bass in the M-80s is just barely adequate, and most other "neutral" headphones out there have woefully underpowered bass.  The genres I tend to listen to rarely suffer from "too much" bass though, especially EDM, where the bass is sort of supposed to overpower everything else (the M-80s don't do that at all though).

 

That said, I wouldn't call myself a fanboy, even if I do like the company.  I guess my taste in sound signature is simply more aligned to that which V-Moda produces.  I am excited for the M-100, but I just can't afford them right now, and I'm not excited enough to spend money I don't have. :P

post #5 of 324
Thread Starter 

I think it all depends on where you're coming from.  I have a pair of D7000's....and in no way would i ever unfairly compare the two, but just to emphasize a specific point....if you regularly listen to tight-controlled-punchy-accurate bass, everything else pales in comparison.  I guess it also depends on your definition of bloat.  Personally, the M-80's fall into the same class as the Q40's, DT770's and the like.  To my ears, they have a cloud of low frequency resonance hovering around everywhere in the entire spectrum.  And coupled with the roll-off on the high-end, they just come off as being fat and soft.  IMHO of course.  When I think of neutral, I'm thinking more like HD-25, DT1350, etc.  If you consider the M-80's neutral, what exactly do you consider to be bassy?
 

post #6 of 324

Depends a lot on personal taste and what you are used to. I come from a spoilt basshead background in the past with EQ abuse and what not to get brainshaking bass haha and I've gradually started to enjoy less and less bass and more QUALITY bass response but there's probably no cure for me to ever start liking zero bass boost though as I find zero bass boost and it sounds like bass is missing to me and 5dB boost is probably a lot more "neutral" sounding to me personally but objectively speaking:

 

M80 measured shows roughly ~5dB bass boost which is what I'd classify as entry-level basshead, my personal "ratings" goes like ~5dB entry-lvl basshead (M80, ATH-M50), Basshead: ~10dB and ~15dB extreme basshead. For every 10dB increase it's a percieved as double in loudness, the M80 have like 50% more bass than what would be objectively measured as "flat", the LP/LP2 on the other hand have roughly 15dB or 150% more bass than what would be concidered flat. :P So yea the LP have about twice as strong percieved bass response than M80 for example.

 

Anyway the only figures Val the CEO for Vmoda actually provided us for M100 as far as the sound goes is M100 having something like 8~9dB bass boost which is like aprox 1/3 or 33% bassier than M80 but it seems the quality of the bass is also very good according to whoever person which had tried them. Val also mentioned it would have better extension in the highs as M80 do roll off quite a bit above 10kHz but it's unknown if it's higher elevated besides the very top-end though so yea it's all in the dark still how it truly sounds like.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 7/4/12 at 3:54pm
post #7 of 324
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post


 ~5dB entry-lvl basshead (M80, ATH-M50).

 

Anyway the only figures Val the CEO for Vmoda actually provided us for M100 as far as the sound goes is M100 having something like 8~9dB bass boost which is like aprox 1/3 or 33% bassier than M80 but it seems the quality of the bass is also very good according to whoever person which had tried them. Val also mentioned it would have better extension in the highs as M80 do roll off quite a bit above 10kHz but it's unknown if it's higher elevated besides the very top-end though so yea it's all in the dark still how it truly sounds like.

 

Based on what you're saying, if it's true that the M-100's will have a bass boost of 8 to 9 db, then they would be considered basshead headphones.  I've never heard anyone speak of the M-100's as basshead headphones.  So I can't really grasp what you're trying to say.  Nonetheless, everything at this point is pure speculation.  I'll resurrect this thread after they launch to see what the real deal is.

post #8 of 324

Well I dug up the Val's post for you

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/592389/v-moda-m-100-discussion-feedback-reviews-pics-etc/2130#post_8478623

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

Wow, we are right there as it is 8dB from its bass peak at 100hZ to 1kHz and it is 9dB from 100hZ to 2kHz!  PERFETTO.  8 is my lucky number.   

 

Things easily get lost as it moves ahead so quickly in the thread but to me personally this was the best news I read so far. :P As my experiences is that 8~9dB boost is where the best bass quantity versus quality ratio resides. Headphones with similar quantity is M-Audio Q40, Ultrasone PRO900 which have rather good quality bass response for their quantity concidered.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 7/5/12 at 1:29am
post #9 of 324
Thread Starter 

Thanks for sharing.  If the M-100's come out with bass quantity like the Q40's, (IMHO) V-Moda would have made a huge mistake.  I had owned a pair of Q40's for a few days before returning them.  They're great for a very small market segment, but I don't believe the M-100's were designed as niche headphones.  Maybe so?  I don't really know.  Personally, I'm really not interested in a more refined LP / LP2.  I was expecting the M-100's to compete with the D2000's.  I now have a funny feeling that the M-100's will quickly disappear into oblivion when the new Denons hit the streets.

post #10 of 324

I completely disagree and M100 will still have a lot less bass than LP2 which has too much bass also for my liking (I didn't use it for longer than a few hrs or so) but Q40 was spot on though. I think your analysis on what "mainstream wants" is probably a bit off, you belong to the people that has an appeal for a lot less bass quantity than what majority prefers, there's lots and lots of customer reviews that absolutely love the LP's bass but also a few that thinks it's too much and also there's M80 users who love the bass and think it's just right and also a fair share who would prefer a little more so I think 8~9dB boost in M100 versus 5~6dB boost in M80 and 15dB boost in LP/LP2 is spot-on, it's exactly what I had personally targeted for if I was Val, 8~9dB is roughly the quantity I'd put my money on would be what most people would prefer. There's probably equally few that prefers around 0dB bass boost as there's 15dB bass boost, possibly I'd guess 15dB boost would appeal more than zero boost probably today (not 20 or so years ago though but the bass driven music has greatly increased now so), so 8~9dB feels like spot on. Can't appeal to every1 fully but if wanting to please as many as possible I think M100 will do nicely. I'm sure there's some truth to the 100+ or whatever evaluations/opinions of people put into M100 development has paid off too. :P


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 7/5/12 at 7:05am
post #11 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gclef View Post

I think it all depends on where you're coming from.  I have a pair of D7000's....and in no way would i ever unfairly compare the two, but just to emphasize a specific point....if you regularly listen to tight-controlled-punchy-accurate bass, everything else pales in comparison.  I guess it also depends on your definition of bloat.  Personally, the M-80's fall into the same class as the Q40's, DT770's and the like.  To my ears, they have a cloud of low frequency resonance hovering around everywhere in the entire spectrum.  And coupled with the roll-off on the high-end, they just come off as being fat and soft.  IMHO of course.  When I think of neutral, I'm thinking more like HD-25, DT1350, etc.  If you consider the M-80's neutral, what exactly do you consider to be bassy?
 

 

Yes, it depends on where you're coming from. If you're a basshead, and I believe there are quite a number of us, the M-80 is probably at the verge of being classified a "neutral" headphone.

 

For me, the absolute lowest bass quantity I could every expect in a headphone starts from the M-80 / AT M50 range. A 5db+ bass boost is really an entry level can for me when it comes to the low-end response.

 

Of course, I have a few cans that aren't really bassy, but I use those for casual listening. When I'm listening to EDM, the bass presentation is all important, and nothing really hits the sweet spot like a  bass amp boosted XB500/LP2/PRO700MK2 rattling your skull.


But that's just me. I love bass. :)

post #12 of 324
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

I think your analysis on what "mainstream wants" is probably a bit off, you belong to the people that has an appeal for a lot less bass quantity than what majority prefers, there's lots and lots of customer reviews that absolutely love the LP's bass but also a few that thinks it's too much

 

Really?  How so?  You are ONLY considering 1/3 of the market (bassheads).  What about the people who prefer neutral sound?  Sparkly Sound?  And Bright Sound?  Are you forgetting that companies, like Grado, and Sennheiser also make headphones and have a huge customer base?  Do you think it's smart marketing strategy to ignore 2/3 of the market and not try to win over competitors' customers?

 

Nontheless, I'm not a numbers guy, and I honestly don't believe that instruments should be dictating sound.  People and what they hear should have that job.  I don't believe people dislike headphones like the Q40's and LP's because they have too much bass, it's because their sizable gains interferes with the rest of the spectrum.  It's great to hear loud, deep, punchy bass...but only when the music calls for it.  That's where the Q40's LP's fail. 

 

So, in short, it doesn't really matter what the numbers pan out to be on the M-100's, it's about how they sound.  And that's exactly where I started with this thread....asking for opinions on how they sound when they hit the streets - not how they measure.

 

post #13 of 324

I would consider myself a bass head, and about 90% of what I listen to is EDM.  The M-80 has some good bass IMO.  It doesn't reach as low as my D2000s, but it's also a tiny portable and in that, I feel it's a good complement to my full-size Denons.  I think RPGWiZaRD has the analysis spot-on, in that the M-80's bass quantity/quality is "entry level basshead," and if Val's post is accurate then the M-100 is going to be awesome sounding.  Though probably not up OP's alley.

post #14 of 324

Since no1 knows how they sound like except for a few lucky people being able to demo a pre-launch sample that's the best answer you'll get for now and there's nothing wrong with measurements if you know how to interpret them but still so they won't tell the full story, at least frequency response is only a very little part of it.

 

Anyway V-Moda has a rather non-traditional approach as a company to make a product. The typical approach is a company having a team of sound engineers/audiophiles whatever which usually knows their stuff better than the mainstream crowd, however what this audiophile/sound engineering kind of crowd conciders objectively "correct" may not always translate very well to what a person on the street wants to hear. Bass quantity is a perfect example of this, I'd bet a $100 if you asked 1000 people on the streets that if you had 2 headphones without telling anything about them to the people what is different with them, one with zero bass boost and another with 5dB boost measured by frequency response the 5dB bass boost headphone would be generally liked better and more often concidered "bass neutral" and the zero bass boost headphone would be concidered as "bass recessed". I'd personally guess the amount bass that people would "percieve" as bass neutral in average based on 1000-ppl randomly picked from the street with somewhat healthy hearing would land somewhere there between +5~7dB boost. Now I won't start to talk about all the reasons behind this, it's too much to discuss about. Anyway V-Moda doesn't only have their sound engineers but also work a lot with statistics when they make their headphones based on all people that have demoed them and how they "EQ'd" the headphone to their liking and then they probably took all those results and made it to an "average" graph based on all those results so V-Moda have a closer connection to its consumers in that regard and it increases the chances to appeal to a larger crowd and seems like it's working. That doesn't mean it can't be an "hi-fi" class headphone as I do believe in that majority of people has so much knowledge or good judgement to be able to judge at least bad sound from good but yea you get the picture.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 7/5/12 at 10:40am
post #15 of 324
Thread Starter 

You really can't make that determination without specifying what type of music you're playing and how the rest of the band is tuned.     

 

I have a pair of D2000's which to me are perfect - bass when you need it - not when you don't.  I'd be curious to know how these measure.  If they have greater gain than the M-80's, then what we're really discussing is the difference between superior and inferior products - bass quantity notwithstanding.

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