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ssrock64 said:

Yeah, what mids that are there are perfectly forward, which I like, but there's a big hole between traditional midrange and vocal treble that's missing. It can be quite annoying when listening to a song with a large vocal range involved, and to have the singer disappear on certain notes or entire phrases only to come right back in.
 
I don't agree with tdockweiler in terms of bass on the DJ200, as my HD280 Pro, my MDR-V6, and my KRKs (I own both models), all known as neutral cans, have more present bass (though the bass detail isn't all the way there in some of those) than the Koss. However, it all comes down to how you hear it, and that's just my observation and opinion.
 
It's interesting how different impressions of the same can turn out to be quite often here on the forums.

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I think this would be virtually impossible. I mean it sounds like you're basically pulling things out of nowhere. How does a singer "go missing". Unless you can provide specific song titles I think this is a bit over-doing it and couldn't possibly be true. I'd love to be proven wrong. It'll give me something interesting to test out. I just feel like you guys are exaggerating a little. I know how Head-Fi is.
 
I think the V6 has much more mid-bass than the DJ100. Don't remember it's sub-bass. HD-600 has more mid-bass than the DJ100 too.
 
Without a doubt IMO the DJ100/TB has more sub-bass (volume) than even the HD-600 and KRK KNS-8400. I just tested this today actually. The 8400 is actually good at fooling people into thinking it's bass light
The 6400 seems to have a tad more mid-bass than the 8400 and less lower bass. I think some pairs of the KRK have slight variations.
 
Yep..all according to my ears. None of us hear the same.
 
BTW I really do wonder now if the TB/DJ100 has more differences than we think. Highly unlikely. Maybe the DJ200 is even more different. I can't imagine Koss making any huge changes.
 
My TB sounds nearly identical to my DJ100. I haven't compared them side by side or analyzed every frequency of the upper mids...yet. Maybe I can get out my sound meter for testing.

I'm probably exaggerating, but it is a noticeable occurance to my ears. Try listening to some male-female duets. I find that one part tends to slip under the radar when closer harmonies occur in the upper mids, but on other headphones there's no dominance in the different parts during those sections.

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ssrock64 said:

I'm probably exxagerating, but it is a noticeable occurance to my ears. Try listening to some male-female duets. I find that one part tends to slip under the radar when closer harmonies occur in the upper mids, but on other headphones there's no dominance in the different parts during those sections.

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No, you're not exaggerating. When there is a hole in an area the midrange, the vocalist will also drop out if their range falls in that same area.

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beagle said:

 
No, you're not exaggerating. When there is a hole in an area the midrange, the vocalist will also drop out if their range falls in that same area.

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Drop out...unless you can give an example in an actual song I don't think this is even possible. I mean you can EQ any vocal area by like minus 25db or more and still hear it. You know what it would take for a vocalist to drop OUT? I doubt this could happen on ANY headphone.
 
Anyone who thinks vocals are recessed on the DJ100 are either nuts, have a bad pair or some poor amp synergy. Ok, i'm not serious, but saying the TB has recessed vocals makes no sense.
This is like saying the AD700 is a bass monster. All the vocal ranges on the DJ100/TB are the most forward part of the headphone. I seriously think it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to recreate this issue.
 
In 2 years i've been listening to the DJ100, no vocal range has been recessed. How many hours of use is on it? Do you use an amp? The mids are more forward when amped and that's even on a neutral amp.
 
If that's what you hear, then OK.
 
I mean, you don't even know the range? 2k? 5k? Why not give us some examples of songs where this is heard? Even Youtube is good enough. Maybe it's the recordings fault (not the quality). Unless you can give examples, I think you might be hearing things. If you can help me hear this possible issue, then maybe you guys are right, but I've never ever heard this at all ever. I'd love to be proven wrong and hear it with my own ears. The last headphone I had this issue with was on the old M50.
 
What's funny is that you can find any random Pearl Jam song and it sounds as if Eddie Vedder's voice is coming from a cave and quite distant. Hmm..I guess the DJ100 is crap then.You can take that same exact song and listen to it on any neutral headphone and get the exact same results. Even the KRK KNS-8400 and Q701.
 
I can pick any random song with female vocals and it's not difficult to find one where the vocals sound distant. That's how the silly recording IS, don't blame the headphone! You know..try these songs on a different headphone and it'll probably sound the same way. On my pair there's some stuff that's sounds like they're singing in my ears and others where it's distant. It's not an issue of a drop-out on the mids. I've verified this on other headphones.
 
Are you sure it's not the lower treble? What's interesting about the DJ100 is that you can EQ the upper mids range up a little and it sounds like crap.

Yo guys,
 
I'm surprised you're having issues with the D200 in terms of build quality and sound. When I tried the DJ200 at Koss, they were just as solid as the DJ100 and TB versions and sounded the same.
 
I'll try to get a pair of the TB and V200 over here from Koss in a week or so. I'll report back with my findings.

Phantom of the Opera is one song where the male vocals fade in and out because the range he's singing at is within the dead zone. I didn't mean to say it just completely vanishes, but it's a noticeable difference. It's definitely a DJ200 thing, too, because as I've stated nothing else I own does that with that song.

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tdockweiler said:

 
Drop out...unless you can give an example in an actual song I don't think this is even possible. I mean you can EQ any vocal area by like minus 25db or more and still hear it. You know what it would take for a vocalist to drop OUT? I doubt this could happen on ANY headphone.
 
Anyone who thinks vocals are recessed on the DJ100 are either nuts, have a bad pair or some poor amp synergy.

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Hey, chill. Stop taking this so seriously and/or literally. You sound like a child who was teased because they believe in Santa Claus.
 
There is a hole in the upper midrange and parts of vocals that should be presented are not, because of this. So you only get part of the vocal. This is so obvious when you listen to pretty much any vocal recording on the TB, then switch to the PSB M4U 2.
 
But if you love the Koss so much and cannot be told that they are flawed, then so be it. I'll stop. But you stop mocking others who do hear the flaw and stop questioning their hearing and equipment.

Well I wanted to post to this thread because I want to be subscribed and I want to see what Zombie_X has to say about the DJ100/200/TB.
 
I must say... this DJ100/200/TB headphone has got to be the most controversial headphone around here. And in a strange way. This is the 3rd or 4th time I've found threads praising the DJ100 up and down in a frantically passionate way. Its almost like... there are a lot of people around here that really, really need the DJ100 to be considered a super-awesome-amazing headphone. Its kind of bizarre. No disrespect to any of you but after all the stuff I've heard about the DJ100 I end up thinking... why not let the headphone speak for itself? Why are people so frantically obsessed with demanding that its so good? I haven't heard any other headphone shamelessly promoted quite like this. I'm very tempted to buy it myself to find out what all the fuss is about but I have absolutely no use for it and several other cans that I'd like to get first. Oh well. Looking forward to your thoughts Zombie_X maybe you can calm these guys down and bring some order to this mess.
 
Again, no disrespect. If you love the DJ100/200/TB then good. If you don't, that's fine too. But if its as good as some people have been saying then surely it can stand on its own two feet, so to speak. You don't need to defend it like its your own child and someone is calling it ugly.

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beagle said:

 
Hey, chill. Stop taking this so seriously and/or literally. You sound like a child who was teased because they believe in Santa Claus.
 
There is a hole in the upper midrange and parts of vocals that should be presented are not, because of this. So you only get part of the vocal. This is so obvious when you listen to pretty much any vocal recording on the TB, then switch to the PSB M4U 2.
 
But if you love the Koss so much and cannot be told that they are flawed, then so be it. I'll stop. But you stop mocking others who do hear the flaw and stop questioning their hearing and equipment.

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It's a big deal to me when people start making up things like somehow vocals disappear or drop out. I'd say that's pretty serious. Even on the most bass heavy headphone this doesn't happen! Basically what you're describing can't happen. Vocals don't magically disappear.
 
I don't really care if it's the worst headphone in the world to you, but if you're going to claim ridiculous things like this then at least give people some sort of reference song or at least the frequency. I don't think you can. I wanted to try and test things for myself, but you haven't been any help.
 
It's not like saying the AD700 is bass light or that the K702 has too much treble.
 
I haven't mocked others. The DJ100 is picky about amps and I was only pointing that out. If you you used it with the wrong amp, it's quite possible to make it sound a bit off. It's not hard for me to do. Heck, for all we know you could be using it with no amp at all. That alone shouldn't cause this problem, but it's possible. Some pairs also need burn-in, but I won't go there. I can easily use my DJ100 with the X-Fi Go Pro DAC and have it bloat the bass. I think that with the wrong amp it's easy to make the DJ100 sound bad.
 
People have criticized many of my favorite headphones, so this is nothing new. I love to pick apart all my headphones. I've asked for info about this problem to test it with my own ears, but you seemed to just ignore this. How do you know you don't have a defect? Not many others have heard the DJ100/TB like you two have. I'm willing to bet money that if you asked every owner of the DJ100 they'll agree that they're very good for vocals.
 
BTW long ago there was another person who had a problem with the mids on his DJ100. He took it back and it sounded much different. It's buried in an old thread. I'm sure you've already returned the TB by now, but I would have tried another pair. This thread actually reminds me of that old one. Lots of heated arguments over how "bad" the DJ100 sounded
 
It's in this old "fun" thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/502718/koss-pro-dj100-and-ur-55-impressions-vs-m50
 
OK, I guess I'm not saying you're not hearing this, but that's just not sounding normal so I had to question if something isn't right. I bet if I heard the TB like you do, i'd return it.
 
BTW I'm a believer that several pairs of the same model of headphone can sound very different. I remember having a K240 Studio years back and it sounded awful. Almost like it was a defect, but I tried it two years later and loved it. What the heck?!
 
Not trying to start a flame war here.. all I wanted is more info. Does anyone else hear the DJ100/TB like the two others here do? Hope not.

I agree that they should be specific about what songs/frequencies etc. but ssrock64 has already mentioned one song and he has also said that he didn't mean that the vocals completely disappear (obviously):
Quote:

ssrock64 said:

Phantom of the Opera is one song where the male vocals fade in and out because the range he's singing at is within the dead zone. I didn't mean to say it just completely vanishes, but it's a noticeable difference. It's definitely a DJ200 thing, too, because as I've stated nothing else I own does that with that song.

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Quote:

tdockweiler said:

 
It's a big deal to me when people start making up things like somehow vocals disappear or drop out. I'd say that's pretty serious. Even on the most bass heavy headphone this doesn't happen! Basically what you're describing can't happen. Vocals don't magically disappear.
 
I don't really care if it's the worst headphone in the world to you, but if you're going to claim ridiculous things like this then at least give people some sort of reference song or at least the frequency. I don't think you can. I wanted to try and test things for myself, but you haven't been any help.
 
It's not like saying the AD700 is bass light or that the K702 has too much treble.
 
I haven't mocked others. The DJ100 is picky about amps and I was only pointing that out. If you you used it with the wrong amp, it's quite possible to make it sound a bit off. It's not hard for me to do. Heck, for all we know you could be using it with no amp at all. That alone shouldn't cause this problem, but it's possible. Some pairs also need burn-in, but I won't go there. I can easily use my DJ100 with the X-Fi Go Pro DAC and have it bloat the bass. I think that with the wrong amp it's easy to make the DJ100 sound bad.
 
People have criticized many of my favorite headphones, so this is nothing new. I love to pick apart all my headphones. I've asked for info about this problem to test it with my own ears, but you seemed to just ignore this. How do you know you don't have a defect? Not many others have heard the DJ100/TB like you two have. I'm willing to bet money that if you asked every owner of the DJ100 they'll agree that they're very good for vocals.
 
BTW long ago there was another person who had a problem with the mids on his DJ100. He took it back and it sounded much different. It's buried in an old thread. I'm sure you've already returned the TB by now, but I would have tried another pair. This thread actually reminds me of that old one. Lots of heated arguments over how "bad" the DJ100 sounded

 
It's in this old "fun" thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/502718/koss-pro-dj100-and-ur-55-impressions-vs-m50
 
OK, I guess I'm not saying you're not hearing this, but that's just not sounding normal so I had to question if something isn't right. I bet if I heard the TB like you do, i'd return it.
 
BTW I'm a believer that several pairs of the same model of headphone can sound very different. I remember having a K240 Studio years back and it sounded awful. Almost like it was a defect, but I tried it two years later and loved it. What the heck?!
 
Not trying to start a flame war here.. all I wanted is more info. Does anyone else hear the DJ100/TB like the two others here do? I sure hope not.

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I hope not either. Otherwise you might jump off a cliff.
 

 
 
 
 

Well those graphs certainly make it look like a good chunk of the upper-freq vocals would "drop out". I wonder if the pads that are used could actually have enough of an effect on the sound to partially fix that huge trough.

Quote:

ssrock64 said:

Phantom of the Opera is one song where the male vocals fade in and out because the range he's singing at is within the dead zone. I didn't mean to say it just completely vanishes, but it's a noticeable difference. It's definitely a DJ200 thing, too, because as I've stated nothing else I own does that with that song.

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Thanks. I will test this out for myself. It will help. Man, if I really heard vocals drop out in the 2 years i've been listening to this, I'd have posted about it immediately. Actually if any of them sounded this way, I'd have NOT been using them at all EVER. Seriously
If a headphone doesn't have good mids, then I won't bother. For me it's all about the mids.
 
Any other songs you can come up with will be appreciated if you ever give it another listen. Even if it's garbage Youtube videos. I was listening to my TB last night and it sounded just too good. Even with just a Total Airhead to Sansa Fuze or Clip+.
 
My biggest complaint about the sound is that it's treble is a bit rolled off. I don't find it remotely dark or anything like that. My other complaint is that I really do wish it sounded better from portable players. Supposedly it's easy to drive..
Heck I don't even like how it sounds sometime with an Ipod Touch to E5 using a LOD cable..
 
Sometime I think I want to buy a hybrid tube amp for it. Maybe the LD1+

Quote:

beagle said:

 
I hope not either. Otherwise you might jump off a cliff.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Wow, and i'm the childish one? I asked for some reference tracks or proof and you seem butt hurt and totally avoided my questions.
 
I've posted those graphs long ago. Maybe you saw those beforehand and really THINK that's what you heard? What do graphs prove? How do you know which ones are accurate?
Here's another one:
 

 
Oh wait..these are apparently "smoothed out". If you want we can argue over stupid graphs. Yep, there is a little dip there. I guess that causes vocals to completely disappear. Uh huh.
 
As much as I like Headroom, here's why you should always take their graphs with a grain of salt. Look at this nice one for a somewhat flat studio monitor:
 

Quote:

devhen said:

Well those graphs certainly make it look like a good chunk of the upper-freq vocals would "drop out". I wonder if the pads that are used could actually have enough of an effect on the sound to partially fix that huge trough.

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That huge trough doesn't actually exist. You have to just listen for yourself. Have you seen the old HD-600 graphs? They have a similar massive drop off. Somehow in newer graphs it's gone.
 
Does the T50p have a drop off when you listen to it? Check this graph out. I wonder what it sounds like in person:
 

 
Graphs are basically pointless and stupid. I'm glad I didn't get the 598 after viewing it's graph. Looks as if it'd be the most dull headphone in the world.
 
BTW the DJ100 sounds NOTHING like the graphs appear. I actually think there should be a peak in the upper mids. Yes, really. Why do no graphs show this? Maybe a poor seal? Who knows..when I first saw the graphs I was shocked there was NONE.