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Toxic Cables - Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 545

post #8161 of 8171

see i told you give it time :P

also yes the better the gear/rig the better Silver Widow gets, cause if you remember my last post to you, i said the cable "deliver better" not "enhance" 

post #8162 of 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shini44 View Post

see i told you give it time :P


also yes the better the gear/rig the better Silver Widow gets, cause if you remember my last post to you, i said the cable "deliver better" not "enhance" 
i agree with my friend shini.. The better ur gear the better the sw22 can show its qualities.. So u know what to do next.. Get urzelf a custom 10k+ headphone amp and the new he1000 and ur in heaven.. Hehehe oopd
post #8163 of 8171
Hey Frank, mind if you can check your PM? The clock is ticking.....biggrin.gif
post #8164 of 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

For anyone interested..i hope that my new sw22/8 will be burned in by the end of the coming week and so i can do a honest comparision between the new cable and the loaner regular 4wire sw22 i still have in my possession..already have the tracks ready in my head to do that biggrin.gif so bare with me if ur curious...

 

Any update on this? I have ordered a 4wire 22AWG Silver widow so very interested to see how the 8 compares!

post #8165 of 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by NzAudezey View Post

Any update on this? I have ordered a 4wire 22AWG Silver widow so very interested to see how the 8 compares!
my apologies..its been very hectic in my life the last two weeks or so...didnt even have time to use my rig....but this weekend i will try to put some kind of comparision together.. wink.gif
post #8166 of 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


my apologies..its been very hectic in my life the last two weeks or so...didnt even have time to use my rig....but this weekend i will try to put some kind of comparision together.. wink.gif

 

No worries mate, Appreciate you taking the time to put it all together. =)

post #8167 of 8171

Hey, does anyone know how long Frank will be away? Looks like I just missed the window for placing orders before he goes on holiday. :( Might just place the order anyway and keep my figured crossed for a cable delivery at some point this summer. 

post #8168 of 8171

Guess i can't order RCA Silver Widow for now? Frank will be away for while T_T  ouch.

 

so guys what are a better option than normal RCA OCC cables? mine is like from amazon uk for 10 GBP, but i want a better option to connect from the DAC to WA7

there is better copper cables, and since the stock is copper i think i will be getting higher quality copper right?  so either way i wont be losing Treble right?

for the silver i will be losing some bass impact so i rather avoid that.


so better copper RCA cable should do it for me? or?


i want one from 50$ to 100$


any tip guys? :D   both USA and UK options are fine. 


 

post #8169 of 8171

Hey,

 

got an E-Mail from them last night and he said there will be a est. delivery time for orders placed now till Aug/Sept.

 

I also wants some toxi cable for my DX50 and bowers&wilkens P7. Which is already a nice Combo but i think the Headphone cable isnt the Maximum of that what i can get out of it.

 

900x900px-LL-81326774_DSC_0570.jpeg

 

This here is the 3 wire Version (Franck said once). But of what cable? And  im thinking of buying a 4 wire Version. Does it fit in the small entry of the cablecanal on the left side of the P7?

 

I'm thinking of buying a Black Widow 22AWG or Viper/Scorpion Hybrid. (Let me say so: Im openminded for everythin till 150 £). Does anyone has some Suggestions or could help me.

 

Where are the benfits of this specific cables? The Black Widow 22 AWG and the Viper Scorpion Hybrid?

 

Thanks (for helping the noob)

post #8170 of 8171

okay guys...as promised..my little comparison between my loaner 4wire Silver Widow and my own 8wire custom Silver Widow 22awg 'Reference'

 

I promised to do a first impressions/comparison between my loaner 4wire Silver Widow 22awg and my own 8wire custom Silver Widow 22awg "Reference"...

 

and as u guys know i do that deadly honest and in my own way..so frank..take notes if u read any remarks for improvement.. very_evil_smiley.gif


sooo here it goes.

First impressions between my loaner SW and my new custom SW:

Usage:


Weird..as hard it was to push the xlr connectors from the 8wire Venom i had into my amp and as easy and flush it now clicked into it with the SW...these Reference connectors are obvious a step above Franks regular xlr connectors...


The 8wire dual mono for sure is far more heavier cable then the 4wire version, but still is veru flexible.. u have to get used to that especially if u have an also heavy headphone as i have.....but nothing to worry about..unless u want a 8wire dual mono for ur iem...i wouldnt advice it..better go for the regular 4wire. Imho


Another surprising thing...the new sleeve is so MUCH more softer then even the unique ruby red silk sleeve i had on my Venom!!! the regular sleeve of the 4wire version looks like cheap in comparision to that, although that sleeve is a huge notch higher in quality then most other brands!
 

usage on ur head:

 

Well...the QUALITY connectors (on the 8wire version) going into the headphone are very long (just like my Venom and BW had)...people with short necks could have problems with that! ..luckily my neck is not short...but still it almost touches my shoulder..no biggie..but still...on the other hand..its just a minor setback if u consider that these connectors for sure wont have same problems as with those plastic standard cheap looking Hifiman connectors and its real carbon what u see on them..looks so classy!!! the shorter connectors on the regular Sw22 4wire are much more short neck friendly!!!!

For the rest...nothing to report...job well done frank..both cables look very durable, classy, extremely high end quality and especially the 8wire i have looks very sexy with a classy creme color.

Okay then..now the more important part..the sound...or better said..is,there a sound difference between those two cables? In one word..yes!

yes u can hear differences on the extreme sides of the audio spectrum...bass is more fleshy (and me thinking the loaner was as natural sounding as cable wise possible (it was only lacking a bit in bass impact compared to the Venom i had!)..but bass impact improved hugely on the 8wire custom! ..treble is a but more relaxed also. less peaky...i get a feeling the regular SW22 sounds a bit more agressive then the 8wire..treble wise..the 8wire is a bit more balanced..but whats hit me the most was the air between the instruments...cant explain how to say that better in english...breathing? U can actually sometimes 'hear' the silence (passion?)...the 4 wire did a good job in that (better then any other cable i heard on my hifiman phones, even better then the 8wire Venom i had) but the 8wire is for sure one notch higher in sound reproduction.

For the rest they come very close to each other soundwise...PLS dont forget that the regular SW22 i have is probably his best silver cable thats somewhat affordable..so the 8wire better be very good!

and pls bare in mind that the regular 22awg single ended 4wire SW, although the best sounding cable for its price imho, is not the same cable (but in 8wire version) as the one used in my custom SW22 8wire:the new cable has also two separated cables of 8wire per side, so a true dual mono configuration for the utmost in canal separation.


LISTENING EXPERIENCE AFTER 100hrs burn-in time
 

as i said...the feel and looks of the new cable is in a higher league then the already luxurious look of regular 4wire version.

and i already mentioned some charactistics in usage between the two cables in my earlier...

and after 100hrs burn in time this is what i have to add

 

usage:

 

my Copper Venom (with the red french silk) was very sensitive to microphobics..i really had to keep my head still or else my headphone sounded like as if my (real) wooden code-x was made of cheap plastics....but on this point the sleeving of the regular 4wire SW and the new 8wire version is far more superior in microphobics.better said: microphobics is non-existent on both cables!

 

 

NOW for the more important part...the sound:

 

well..to be short...the 8wire is a league higher on the lower and higher frequencies compared to the 4wire

 

let me explain further:

 

first of all the soundsignature i am ALWAYS after:

 

I want natural, powerful, organic and balanced sound. with Smooth and dynamic highs with minimum roll off and controlled punchy lows. True to source, realistic, precise imaging and a holographic sound stage (my poor planar being the bottleneck in this ofcourse!). By balanced and realistic I mean music to be right-proportioned and show a true picture of the performance (I so hate to hear a small ensemble being portrait like an orchestra, or a small jazz club gig to sound like a huge concert in an open stadium). The SW 4wire did this perfectly (to my surprise he did it better then my TOTL Venom i once had!)..UP until now...the 8wire does something special...something extra..

 

 

To kill all the doubts about the qualities of my new SW 22awg in the butt:

 

 

 

In short: Its Key qualities are: powerful, life, airiness, detail, energy, clarity, organic, presence, soundstage and dynamics. Although the 4wire did nothing wrong and excelled in all areas i now know it was missing something - the something that the new 8wire has it in spades:..its like an open window into the music ur listening..

 

Now that the SW22 8wire has had a break-in time of around 100hrs, i can go in deeper into the differences between tje 4wire and my new custom SW.

 

sooo here it goes...

 

In use, the first thing to jump out was the bass performance of the 8wire compared to the 4wire, which was a bit lacking compared with my Venom, it is as if it has unlimited bass impact to its proposal, totally non-silvery sounding! Another thing thats hit me in the face like an atomic bomb was the sweet treble. While stopping far short of the bright zone, the top end performance of the 8wire is open and extended..it extends a bit more then the 4wire version, but it never gets fatique!

 

The frequency just below this, the mid and upper midrange, was shown to excellent effect listening to what I think is the best recording i ever heard from Freddy Mercury, it was with Montserat Caballe, especially 'the fallen priest' and 'rachmanov's revenge', sang live in Barcelona. When i was listening to this recordings through this rig and the SW22 8wire, the nuance in Freddy's voice when listening through the 'PaG' and my 8wire was uncomparable to anything I have heard until now headphone/cable wise or otherwise...it sounded so real..so full, u heared layers over layers!.especially when the two voices were changing octaves from low and then higher, while a full orchestra was playing behind them with full force sometimes...unbelievable..i now wish i was there when they actually had that concert back then..ur whole head was filled with music! the SW 4wire was a bit more agressive, less balanced.and thinner sounding...more in your face cable...as i said before...if i didnt know better that 4wire would still be my reference..even after hearing lots of cables already...and even that the bass was not hardest hitting one.

 

and now my biggest surprise...i already was stunned by how my PaG and the loaner Sw22 4wire played this..but the 8wire went one step further....

 

The next three octaves down the scale, from mid-bass to the lower midrange, were vibrant and lively in character. For example, the woody resonance and the harder hits on the piano, the faster smaller drums, the cellos and bigger violins on the soundtrack of 'Beowulf', the deep bass (huge drums) that kick in without a warning hits u like a tornado...so deep and powerfull, but still so in control and lightling fast following the changes in speed perfectly..and while the drums are rumbling the higher pitched violins are shown in (to my ears) the right way without any sweat, just right on the other lower side of the orchestra while the drums are on the other side more in the middle...perfectly placed..no smearing at all...and thats where the 8wire takes the lead from from anything i ever heard before....

 

But i have to be honest here.. I was really stunned at how well my 8wire portraited the fundamentals of that deep bass...knowing its a silver based cable!

 

Staging (positioning of instruments etc) with the '4wire' was already exceptional, but the 8wire was better with a good margin..more space!...

 

 

Dynamically

The small harmonic and pitch changes of complex acoustic passages like i stated in 'Beowulf' were done nicely and in a very believable way with both cables, only the 8wire goes deeper and hits harder...and gives that warmth..or some say "air" to the music...the 4wire is more a straight true cable...doing all the things well...and now i know that cable is a very good deal for the price it goes! as i now compared it to a cable much much more expensive!

 

Comparing in short:

I can be short with this..

 

In general the 4wire is more in your face cable...sound is closer to u..., while the 8wire is more laidback and much more dynamic with music further in front of u with larger soundstage . Which would be better for you is a personal decision. Both are very capable cables in design and in performance, either one is in its own price category a winner in my book..

 

and now something also very important...!!!!

 

Value for the Money -

 

the SW22 4wire: unbeatable!!! u wont find any other cable for this price with this kind of performance and this quality of built and luxury looks..period...if i had to give it a rate from 1 til 10 i would give it a 11!! if u need a high end silver cable for an affordable price..then its a nobrainer for me...the sw22! whether in 4wire 22awg, 8wire or any other 'frankenstein' version the devious mind of Toxic cables pumps out for us.

 

The SW22 8wire Reference (my custom 8wire version):

i really dont know..yes its very expensive for a headphone cable(even for me)..but OMG the built quality, the stunning looks, the music experience it gives u in return... for me its a total 10...but for most of u guys on a certain budget maybe a 7minus...or maybe better to get the 4wire version who does everything well also! But if u want the very best a silver cable can give u....SW22 8wire,...and go for a balanced version with the REFERENCE treatment...the bass and soundstage improves a lot compared to their single ended (SW) siblings..

 

okay..now u have it...as promised..my comparison....the naked truth..the SW22 8wire reference is true TOTL..

 

both are topcables....and both a winner in their respective price range..their DIRECT priced competitors will struggle extremely to compete with them at the price they go for! well done Frank!!

 

see ya later my dear toxic friends and soon to be toxicans who read this

 

oh wait...many now maybe ask themselves what headphone the SW22 would be good for...well....as long u dont use a headphone who is as cold as a beyer (as example) or the he400 or with a very bright sounding ss amp..they pair to almost any headphone...for those kind of headphones it could maybe be better to get a copper based (or hybrid like the Virus) toxic cable...like the very affordable 22awg copper widow or the copper venom...both also very capable cables also... but as always its a very personal decision what kind of cable (or wire inside it) to get for ur beloved headphone...no matter the price range.....any quality headphone improves if u use the right cable for it...imho ofcourse!


And just to be clear..i do have to return this 4wire loaner..its a single ended cable anyway..so i cant use it for extensive listening periods...my amp best sound comes from its dual xlr output...thats what my mighty 8wire SW22 has:-) single ended output is just for testing purposes..

 

so thats all folks...i tried to be as complete as possible..hope u liked it..peace

 

edit: some pics

 

 

 

 


Edited by hifimanrookie - Today at 9:42 am
post #8171 of 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 

okay guys...as promised..my little comparison between my loaner 4wire Silver Widow and my own 8wire custom Silver Widow 22awg 'Reference'

 

I promised to do a first impressions/comparison between my loaner 4wire Silver Widow 22awg and my own 8wire custom Silver Widow 22awg "Reference"...

 

and as u guys know i do that deadly honest and in my own way..so frank..take notes if u read any remarks for improvement.. very_evil_smiley.gif


sooo here it goes.

First impressions between my loaner SW and my new custom SW:

Usage:


Weird..as hard it was to push the xlr connectors from the 8wire Venom i had into my amp and as easy and flush it now clicked into it with the SW...these Reference connectors are obvious a step above Franks regular xlr connectors...


The 8wire dual mono for sure is far more heavier cable then the 4wire version, but still is veru flexible.. u have to get used to that especially if u have an also heavy headphone as i have.....but nothing to worry about..unless u want a 8wire dual mono for ur iem...i wouldnt advice it..better go for the regular 4wire. Imho


Another surprising thing...the new sleeve is so MUCH more softer then even the unique ruby red silk sleeve i had on my Venom!!! the regular sleeve of the 4wire version looks like cheap in comparision to that, although that sleeve is a huge notch higher in quality then most other brands!
 

usage on ur head:

 

Well...the QUALITY connectors (on the 8wire version) going into the headphone are very long (just like my Venom and BW had)...people with short necks could have problems with that! ..luckily my neck is not short...but still it almost touches my shoulder..no biggie..but still...on the other hand..its just a minor setback if u consider that these connectors for sure wont have same problems as with those plastic standard cheap looking Hifiman connectors and its real carbon what u see on them..looks so classy!!! the shorter connectors on the regular Sw22 4wire are much more short neck friendly!!!!

For the rest...nothing to report...job well done frank..cable looks very durable, classy, extremely high end quality and looks very sexy with a classy creme color.

Okay then..now the more important part..the sound...or better said..is,there a sound difference between those two cables? In one word..yes!

yes u can hear differences on the extreme sides of the audio spectrum...bass is more fleshy (and me thinking the loaner was as natural sounding as cable wise possible (it was only lacking a bit in bass impact compared to the Venom i had!)..but bass impact improved hugely on the 8wire custom! ..treble is a but more relaxed also. less peaky...i get a feeling the regular SW22 sounds a bit more agressive then the 8wire..treble wise..the 8wire is a bit more balanced..but whats hit me the most (little hit..lolz) was the air between the instruments...cant explain how to say that better in english...breathing? U can actually sometimes 'hear' the silence (passion?)...the 4 wire did a good job in that (better then any other cable i heard on my hifiman phones, even better then the 8wire Venom i had) but the 8wire is for sure one notch higher in sound reproduction.

For the rest they come very close to each other soundwise...PLS dont forget that the regular SW22 i have is probably his best silver cable thats somewhat affordable (and as far i understand..so the 8wire better be very good!

and pls bare in mind that the regular 22awg single ended 4wire SW, although the best sounding cable for its price imho, is not the same cable (but in 8wire version) as the one used in my custom SW22 8wire:the new cable has also two separated cables of 8wire per side, so a true dual mono configuration for the utmost in canal separation.


LISTENING EXPERIENCE AFTER 100hrs burn-in time
 

as i said...the feel and looks of the new cable is in a higher league then the already luxurious look of regular 4wire version.

and i already mentioned some charactistics in usage between the two cables in my earlier...

and after 100hrs burn in time this is what i have to add

 

usage:

 

my Copper Venom (with the red french silk) was very sensitive to microphobics..i really had to keep my head still or else my headphone sounded like as if my (real) wooden code-x was made of cheap plastics....but on this point the sleeving of the regular 4wire SW and the new 8wire version is far more superior in microphobics.better said: microphobics is non-existent on both cables!

 

 

NOW for the more important part...the sound:

 

well..to be short...the venom is a league higher on the lower and higher frequencies compared to the BW..

 

let me explain further:

 

first of all the soundsignature i am ALWAYS after:

 

I want natural, powerful, organic and balanced sound. with Smooth and dynamic highs with minimum roll off and controlled punchy lows. True to source, realistic, precise imaging and a holographic sound stage (my poor planar being the bottleneck in this ofcourse!). By balanced and realistic I mean music to be right-proportioned and show a true picture of the performance (I so hate to hear a small ensemble being portrait like an orchestra, or a small jazz club gig to sound like a huge concert in an open stadium). The SW 4wire did this perfectly (to my surprise he did it better then my TOTL Venom i once had!)..UP until now...the 8wire does something special...something extra..

 

 

To kill all the doubts about the qualities of my new SW 22awg in the butt:

 

 

 

In short: Its Key qualities are: powerful, life, airiness, detail, energy, clarity, organic, presence, soundstage and dynamics. Although the 4wire did nothing wrong and excelled in all areas i now know it was missing something - the something that the new 8wire has it in spades:..its like an open window into the music ur listening..

 

Now that the SW22 8wire has had a break-in time of around 100hrs, i can go in deeper into the differences between tje 4wire and my new custom SW.

 

sooo here it goes...

 

In use, the first thing to jump out was the bass performance of the 8wire compared to the 4wire, which was a bit lacking compared with my Venom, it is as if it has unlimited bass impact to its proposal, totally non-silvery sounding! Another thing thats hit me in the face like an atomic bomb was the sweet treble. While stopping far short of the bright zone, the top end performance of the 8wire is open and extended..it extends a bit more then the 4wire version, but it never gets fatique!

 

The frequency just below this, the mid and upper midrange, was shown to excellent effect listening to what I think is the best recording i ever heard from Freddy Mercury, it was with Montserat Caballe, especially 'the fallen priest' and 'rachmanov's revenge', sang live in Barcelona. When i was listening to this recordings through this rig and the SW22 8wire, the nuance in Freddy's voice when listening through the 'PaG' and my 8wire was uncomparable to anything I have heard until now headphone/cable wise or otherwise...it sounded so real..so full, u heared layers over layers!.especially when the two voices were changing octaves from low and then higher, while a full orchestra was playing behind them with full force sometimes...unbelievable..i now wish i was there when they actually had that concert back then..ur whole head was filled with music! the SW 4wire was a bit more agressive, less balanced.and thinner sounding...more in your face cable...as i said before...if i didnt know better that 4wire would still be my reference..even after hearing lots of cables already...and even that the bass was not hardest hitting one.

 

and now my biggest surprise...i already was stunned by how my PaG and the loaner Sw22 4wire played this..but the 8wire went one step further....

 

The next three octaves down the scale, from mid-bass to the lower midrange, were vibrant and lively in character. For example, the woody resonance and the harder hits on the piano, the faster smaller drums, the cellos and bigger violins on the soundtrack of 'Beowulf', the deep bass (huge drums) that kick in without a warning hits u like a tornado...so deep and powerfull, but still so in control and lightling fast following the changes in speed perfectly..and while the drums are rumbling the higher pitched violins are shown in (to my ears) the right way without any sweat, just right on the other lower side of the orchestra while the drums are on the other side more in the middle...perfectly placed..no smearing at all...and thats where the 8wire takes the lead from from anything i ever heard before....

 

But i have to be honest here.. I was really stunned at how well my 8wire portraited the fundamentals of that deep bass...knowing its a silver based cable!

 

Staging (positioning of instruments etc) with the '4wire' was already exceptional, but the 8wire was better with a good margin..more space!...

 

 

Dynamically

The small harmonic and pitch changes of complex acoustic passages like i stated in 'Beowulf' were done nicely and in a very believable way with both cables, only the 8wire goes deeper and hits harder...and gives that warmth..or some say "air" to the music...the 4wire is more a straight true cable...doing all the things well...and now i know that cable is a very good deal for the price it goes! as i now compared it to a cable much much more expensive!

 

Comparing in short:

I can be short with this..

 

In general the 4wire is more in your face cable...sound is closer to u..., while the 8wire is more laidback and much more dynamic with music further in front of u with larger soundstage . Which would be better for you is a personal decision. Both are very capable cables in design and in performance, either one is in its own price category a winner in my book..

 

and now something also very important...!!!!

 

Value for the Money -

 

for the SW22: even my custom 8 wire dual mono balanced version, unbeatable!!! u wont find any other cable for this price with this kind of performance and this quality of built and luxury looks..period...if i had to give it a rate from 1 til 10 i would give it a 11!! if u need a high end silver cable for an affordable price..then its a nobrainer for me...the sw22! whether in 4wire 22awg, 8wire or any other 'frankenstein' version the devious mind of Toxic cables pumps out for us.

 

The SW22 8 wire Reference (my custom 8wire version)

i really dont know..yes its very expensive for a headphone cable(even for me)..but OMG the built quality, the stunning looks, the music experience it gives u in return... for me its a total 10...but for most of u guys on a certain budget maybe a 7minus...or maybe better to get the 4wire version who does everything well also! But if u want the very best a silver cable can give u....SW22 8wire,...and go for a balanced version with the REFERENCE treatment...the bass and soundstage improves a lot compared to their single ended (SW) siblings..

 

okay..now u have it...as promised..my comparision....the naked truth..the SW22 8wire reference is TOTL..

 

both are topcables....and both a winner in their respective price range..their DIRECT priced competitors will struggle extremely to compete with them at the price they go for! well done Frank!!

 

see ya later my dear toxic friends and soon to be toxicans who read this

 

oh wait...many now maybe ask themselves what headphone the SW22 would be good for...well....as long u dont use a headphone who is as cold as a beyer (as example) or the he400 or with a very bright sounding ss amp..they pair to almost any headphone...for those kind of headphones it could maybe be better to get a coper based toxic cable...like the copper widow or the copper venom...both also very capable cables also... but as always its a very personal decision what kind of cable (or wire inside it) to get for ur beloved headphone...no matter the price range.....any quality headphone improves if u use the right cable for it...imho ofcourse!


And just to be clear..i do have to return this 4wire loaner..its a single ended cable anyway..so i cant use it for extensive listening periods...my amp best sound comes from its dual xlr output...thats what my mighty 8wire SW22 has:-) single ended output is just for testing purposes..

 

so thats all folks...i tried to be as complete as possible..hope u liked it..peace

 

Awesome! Really appreciate you taking the time to write this all up!

 

Great stuff

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