What is better for the money: Amp or Amp/DAC combo? - Page 3

 

 

Personally, i rank DAC before amp though,unless the dac either doesn't come with an amp or it's really too underpowered/inferior to talk about(still second). I am talking music listening generally. XP
For laptop listening,DAC is generally a must for me. 

Checking out Rocoo p now... certainly a lot more sexy than clip+..
 AFAIK, itouch has a slightly better DAC section than clip+ (looking at measurements around the dark side of the internet by the one who shall not be named).
but damn,clip+ is so cheap and miniature,if you don't mind it's toy-ish look.. I wouldn't mind at all..quite  for me.

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant that I was comparing my Q701s plugged into my Z2300's headphone jack (aka, the Q701s boosted by the amp inside the Z2300's subwoofer) versus the Q701s plugged into my E17 amp+DAC. For the comparison, I did my best to equate the volume outputs between the two.

 

EDIT: I will say this, though. For the money, looking back in hindsight, I probably would've been satisfied if I had only purchased the Q701 headphones ($225ish) and continued to plug them into my desktop speakers' amp/headphone jack. The DAC inside the E17 ($140) definitely improves the sound, but it's less of an upgrade than purchasing the headphones was.
 

 

Edited by wilky61 - 4/15/12 at 7:29am

Back to the OP, when you listened to your friend's Digizoid, you heard a big difference, right? That's because it functions as a sound shaper, altering the relative strengths across the frequency range. Yes, it has a modest amplifier section, but it's main feature is shaping the sound, especially in the bass region, and, in decreasing hiss/sibilance. I have one, used with a Vsonic GR07 and iPod touch. Very tiny, amps the sound level, and I adjust the sound in 32 steps when I vary from classical music to rock to electronic. For my portable set up, this is perfect. I think it side steps the whole amp vs DAC discussion. This is a sound difference anyone can hear.

 

Haha..looks like i didn't follow close enough. I ranked DAC so because it's for my laptop listening. For you,you don't mind to just use your ipod even you are at home,so spending on DAC is not going to help. So yea,a good amp is certainly going to help more for DAP.

 

I don't want to misguide you into thinking clip+ is bad. It's not marketed as a pro DAP AFAIK unlike other audiophile DAPs. Its DAC is actually better than many more expensive DAPs that I encountered..
Compare to ipods, which are mostly around 3-4 times of its price,the difference in DAC quality is quite subtle (likely not audible,it's still subjective you know). Plus,it has a very low output impedance for high damping factor that even your nano don't have. But If you are using an amp it won't matter. And you can use micro sd card to expand its memory up to 32GB(not sure about 64GB). I am not working for sandisk FYI. haha..

For myself, if I have extra budget,i'll go for a 64GB Itouch. The other entertainments it can give are just too attractive. For now,i'm very contented with a clip+.

SO to summarize, it seems everyone tends to agree in general.

 

You need atleast a decent DAC, that laptops and most PCs generally dont have. The DAC in your ipod is fine, and if you use that even at home, then i agree dont bother getting one, go straight for an amp.

 

BUT if your listening from a laptop then i would recommend upgrading to atleast a decent DAC, just bare in mind the law of diminishing returns, IMO it kicks in quite early with DACs.

This may be a noob question. I've noticed some distortion via my MacBook Pro's headphone-out jack. I don't (yet) have an amp/DAC, but I've enjoyed listening nevertheless. This morning I noticed what I can describe as a "crunch" sound when louder notes are played. Specifically, I was listening to The Wish on Remember Shakti by John McLaughlin. During the guitar solo which introduces the piece, he hits occasional notes which deliver a bit more impact. That's where the "crunch" rears its ugly head. I was like "WTF ?! Is it the phones?". I switched from the Beyer DT1350s to my DT990s. Same thing. Then I put the CD in my PS3 and listened with the phones through the Pioneer amp. The "crunch" was gone. Then I listened through my iPod. The "crunch" was gone there as well. Is this something that would be remedied by an external amp/DAC? I'm pretty shocked that the new (late 2011) MacBook Pro would distort like this. 

I havent heard people say that any MacBook has good headphone jacks, ofcourse I am not an apple fan.

 

Doesn't matter if its macbook or thinkpad. Most internals are same.

I think that's probably what people refer as 'clipping'. If it is,when you lower the volume to certain extent,it will disappear. If so,a proper dac+amp will eliminate most clips,especially if the amp is capable.
Or you can (try) lower the headphone out volume to just before it clips and use an external amp to amplify the sound. Do let us know whether it works.

So the general consensus is that a portable DAC isn't going to see much improvement over the iPod/iPhone DAC if you're spending less than $200. What if your price range is higher? Would something like a Fostex HP-P1 be worth purchasing for the DAC? The HP-P1 is an amp, too, obviously, but what does its DAC do for portable listening through an iPod/iPhone? Is it worth purchasing a combo amp/DAC like the Fostex HP-P1 over just an amp like the Pico Slim? The price difference there is about $250, so if I'm using custom IEMs - even high end ones - will I hear any difference?

 

Two different things, first, whether there is any difference, and second, whether you'll hear any. The first one may/may not happen. The second one does not depend on the first. You can hear a difference even when there is none.

I understand that there is a placebo effect to spending more money on audio equipment, but objectively - in a blind test - what are we talking? Because if I purchase one, I won't get a chance to try the other, so I won't be able to think "Oh, well this one costs $250 more than the one I just listened to, so it should be better." A little extra transparency? Somewhat punchier bass? Clearer, more articulate treble? Those go from "Eh, whatever..." to "Okay, that actually matters," in my opinion...I just don't know if it's worth shelling out the extra cash, because I don't know which I'm getting. A Fostex HP-P1 costs about $650, whereas the Pico Slim is <$400...essentially, is the extra $250+ I'm spending on the DAC function of the HP-P1 worth it when I'm using custom IEMs? (As opposed to full headphones)

Edited by Aethernum - 6/4/12 at 9:46pm

 

I can only offer my own opinion on this. If you've got speakers/headphones/IEMs that sensitive, then there's a small chance that you'll hear changes, that is if they are audible in the first place (meaning a >5dB difference). Other than that, the sound seems to be more of a function of the headphones/iems than the source/dac. Emphasis on some parts of the spectrum will cause others to be masked out, hence you'll have various characteristics used to describe them.

Also, if you've already spent on ultra high end speakers/headphones and amplifiers, then there can be an aesthetic and obligatory need to make your source have the best possible quality. 

Edited by proton007 - 6/4/12 at 10:11pm