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Car audio-Fi - Page 5

post #61 of 75
Joined head fi soley to answer this question. Pardon my poor grammar and spelling mistakes, typing on a new phone. I am a proud owner of a 2010 rav4 with:
JVC double din 5v out head unit.
4500 watt boss amplifier. Mono block.
2400 watt quantum audio 4 channel amplifier.
4 audiopipe 6 inch 250 watt peak 125 rms loudspeakers.
2 audiopipe super tweeters 500 watt peak, 250 rms.
2 rockford fosgate p2 dual 2 ohm 15 inch subwoofers in a custom box.
My head unit is set up so that my speakers sound off to produce a sound comparable to being in the center of a room. I use neutron music player as my music player and plan to install a 31 band EQ tomorrow afternoon. I love my system.
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by willblake13 View Post

Joined head fi soley to answer this question. Pardon my poor grammar and spelling mistakes, typing on a new phone. I am a proud owner of a 2010 rav4 with:
JVC double din 5v out head unit.
4500 watt boss amplifier. Mono block.
2400 watt quantum audio 4 channel amplifier.
4 audiopipe 6 inch 250 watt peak 125 rms loudspeakers.
2 audiopipe super tweeters 500 watt peak, 250 rms.
2 rockford fosgate p2 dual 2 ohm 15 inch subwoofers in a custom box.
My head unit is set up so that my speakers sound off to produce a sound comparable to being in the center of a room. I use neutron music player as my music player and plan to install a 31 band EQ tomorrow afternoon. I love my system.

 

You can scrap the ambiphonic processor on the Android app and the separate 31band graphic EQ and go for a car audio processor with all the bells and whistles. Anything from those pricey Alpine F1 series surround sound processors, or the entry-level stereo processor crammed into the $350 Pioneer 860MP head unit. These will actually have more options to control the sound. For one thing, the Pioneer (though the most basic for getting around car acoustics) has an active crossover, so you can send out a true 4v (2v nominal AFAIK) signal to your amps that are already cut for the correct frequency to the drivers they're going to. Second, with that set, you can set up a time alignment setting for each tweeter and midwoofer separately, to simulate being in the center of a room. Some systems seems sharper in the treble by ear, and no EQ or gain restructuring can seem to tone it down, because the real culprit is a few milliseconds off in hearing one tweeter vs the other speakers. I've seen one car before measured with the time alignment off using a USB mic, and the proper time alignment settings don't improve playing a test tone, but by our ears the imaging and the response improved. I actually use just the T/A in my car, with EQ disabled. This isn't a matter of placebo, although we can't measure the actual time delays because we used general measurements then adjusted from there, vs the high-end receiver+processor combos that really have their own tuning mic like Audyssey in home theater set-ups (we were using a Samson USB mic with a laptop).

Also, don't forget to angle the tweeters right. Problem with supertweeters and other non-dynamic designs though is the dispersion can be too narrow, and ergo harder to aim properly, if they're in a location where there are quite a few obstacles in the signal path (which might sometimes be the case for some designs that are too large to fit on the dash/A-pillars). Of course, the trade-off of putting them on the dash is that the pathlength of the driver side tweeter is too short relative to the other transducers.

post #63 of 75
Bump.

I'm thinking of getting a full system in a few months for my 2005 Civic 4DR SI. Thinking of getting 1 12" Alpine Type R in a ported box. I'm looking at Hifonics amplifiers, but I don't know much about car audio. I'm also going to be getting a Pioneer deck. In total price is looking around $850 CDN.

Anyone have recommendations?
post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BASGTA View Post

Bump.

I'm thinking of getting a full system in a few months for my 2005 Civic 4DR SI. Thinking of getting 1 12" Alpine Type R in a ported box. I'm looking at Hifonics amplifiers, but I don't know much about car audio. I'm also going to be getting a Pioneer deck. In total price is looking around $850 CDN.

Anyone have recommendations?

 

What's your goal? If it's just to blow out your windows, research well on the box designs that will maximize SPL. If you're looking at SQ, I'd suggest you look into DIY-ing custom installations so you can save the money on an custom job, because in serious SQ set-ups this can cost a lot of money. Start with the Pioneer 860MP for around $350US, since it has all the processing you'll need to split the signal at the digital level and then apply time delays for each transducer and create a center image for the driver. You can also use drivers off Parts Express - I use a home audio Vifa tweeter that goes down to 1khz. Car audio tweets that do that are worth hundreds of dollars since they try to minimize the magnet size; if you don't plan on joining IASCA or EMMA events, all you have to make sure of is that they don't obscure your driving vision in practical terms (competition rules are very, very strict about deducting points for that). You can probably get other brands of affordable amps to power the front 6.5 midwoofers and tweeters, like the MTX Thunder 75.4 - I owned the chrome version of this and it has gobs of power. You can then get the matched mono amp and a good entry level sub, like JL Audio's W1 or W0. No need for 12" subs, they'll just need a bigger box and will just have a greater tendency to pull the bass towards the rear instead of just supporting the front midwoofers (the bass drum is in front of you in a concert, right?), then you can more likely correct that with the crossover and time alignment settings.

Go back through all my posts in this thread for more details on how to start with a car audio set-up.

post #65 of 75

Dang! Didn't know this thread existed until just now.  I've got 2 12" rockford fosgate "audiophile" punch subs from the 90s that I got for free.  They came in a terribly leaky 5th order bandpass box with a 120w speaker amp screwed onto the side of it...  I built a 2 chamber sealed box for them and got a alpine mrp500.  When I got my nova I threw two cheapo rockford fosgate 6x9s on the package tray and called it good.  I'm really happy I have no trunk rattle at all and pretty good extension.  

 

Every other kid at my school rolls through the parking lot with their obnoxious kickers and all you hear as they roll past is trunk rattle even in the suvs.  

 

There is still the original 4x10 speaker sitting under my dash.  I tried it when I installed my stereo and it was obviously blown.  What would you guys recommend for a decent/ cheap 4x10?

post #66 of 75
ProtegeManiac, I was thinking primarily sound quality. I don't care if it's not that loud. I haven't thought about getting speakers yet either. I'm going to be purchasing from Sonic Electronix, shipping to Canada's a lot but it's still cheaper than local places.

I was wondering if these are good selections. BRX1600.1D or a KAC-9106D for a SWR-12D4 in a Ground Shaker ported box
Edited by BASGTA - 3/18/14 at 12:57am
post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BASGTA View Post

ProtegeManiac, I was thinking primarily sound quality. I don't care if it's not that loud. I haven't thought about getting speakers yet either. I'm going to be purchasing from Sonic Electronix, shipping to Canada's a lot but it's still cheaper than local places.

I was wondering if these are good selections. BRX1600.1D or a KAC-9106D for a SWR-12D4 in a Ground Shaker ported box

 

If you're after sound quality then don't fess around with a sub just yet unless you have double that budget. That will be like setting up a home audio system and just adding a subwoofer to that boxed set receiver+speaker in your kitchen or garage. Get better speakers first, along with a receiver with a decent processor, which these days is only the 80PRS (or a processor and an amp for those who really can't fuss around with their warranty), which goes for around $350US. You can get decent speakers for around $300 to $400; less if for example you get the Swans/HiVi car audio sets or even raw drivers from Parts Express.* Use the receiver's amp for now, and save up another $800 through the next few months, so you can get a multichannel amp that will power each of the tweeters and mids, plus the sub, like the JL Audio six channel amp that goes for around $500 on Crutchfield. You can spend only $200 on the sub, then build a decent sealed cabinet for it.

 

Also, best if you start practicing using fiberglass because it's an essential in proper car audio installs. It will allow you to make those complex shapes necessary for integrating the tweeters into the interior, and also the midwoofers if you need to install them outside of the plastic door panel. Remember that if they're inside some of the soundwaves will bounce off the plastic panel and back, resonating within the door, narrowing their dispersion and affecting soundstage if not also tonality. You can get a lot more on this at www.diyma.com.



*Note that aside from the wider chassis and magnet on the tweeters the midwoofers made for home audio cabinets aren't too concerned with magnets that would fit in a door, which will require a lot more DIY; it will not be impossible but know that as good as the results could potentially be for a lot less money, installing any speaker improperly will suck, and this one will suck all the more if it damages your doors.

post #68 of 75
So I ended up getting Kenwood x596 as my deck and four 6.5" Kenwood KFC-X173s. Someone I knew was selling 2 Canadian homemade 12" subwoofers with a JL Audio 250/1 amp. Their box didn't fix so I put them both in a ported box. I had it all installed at a shop and they said they set up the amp for the subwoofer. The LPF is set to ~65Hz.


I was under the impression you'd want all the bass going to the sub, so about ~100Hz?
Edited by BASGTA - 4/20/14 at 10:12pm
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BASGTA View Post

I was under the impression you'd want all the bass going to the sub, so about ~100Hz?

 

If you do it that way, you'd pull all the bass to the rear. Ever been to a concert where the drummer is in front but the bass drum and bass guitar amp are behind the audience? Me neither. That's why it's not supposed to, and that's also why the better receivers or processors have a time alignment function so you can delay the front speakers' output until the sub notes are near your ears (it's all in microseconds but it's all the difference). Similarly, the better processors can also apply time alignment to each tweeter and midwoofer in front (then all these relative to the sub) that way all the speakers' output arrive at your ear simultaneously. Do it right and despite not having a Mclaren F1 the output from the speakers will have the vocals clearly in front of the dash (even if you're facing dead-ahead while driving) and all other instruments spaced out to the left and right and behind it even.

 

Time alignment and crossover settings along can't do that though - you have to maximize the mounting of the speakers as per their dispersion characteristics and your car's cabin. The time alignment processor will only serve to fine tune this. For example, here's how a midwoofer is installed in the kick panel, that way the one closer to the driver's side is considerably farther from him while the one on the passenger side doesn't really change its distance, plus the angles of both drivers should help put the vocals dead center. Tweeters similarly should be mounted with the same concerns in mind.

 

 

post #70 of 75

My car - Honda Odyssey RB3 (JDM version)

 

*

 

 

Clarion HX-D2 (DRZ-9255), Audible Physics RAM3A 3" wide band tops and H-Audio 6's.

 

*

 

*

 

 

 

The H-Audios are gone and replaced by these; CSS SDX-7 (mechanically silent, lowish FS and high xmax)

 

 

 

Two of the amps - Phoenix Gold Titaniums (the grey ones) with white leds.

 

 

 

The sub is an Infinity Perfect 10VQ in a sealed box between the two front seats and under the centre console tray in the pic above, rear fill is another set of RAM3As in C pillars, and the amp for all this is an Alpine PDX4.150.

Sorry about the poor quality pics.


Edited by Winno - 5/21/14 at 4:13am
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winno View Post
 

The sub is an Infinity Perfect 10VQ in a sealed box between the two front seats and under the centre console tray in the pic above

 

How high can you turn up the gain on the sub* before it gets easily localized in that location? And what's the crossover settings on it?

 

 

 

 

 

*No exact figures of course, too many variables; think of "chest pounding bass drum (eg classic rock)," "chest pounding house music," and finally "will blow my windows off with Lil John." :D

post #72 of 75

The sub low pass is set to 63Hz @ 18dB/oct.

In conjunction with the midbasses which high pass from 50Hz @ 18dB/oct, I can have its gain set fairly high before noticing that the bass isn't all out on the bonnet of the car any more.

By that stage though, all hopes of sound quality are gone as the bass overpowers everything else.

It shakes the seats, even when playing quietly as the thing is bolted to the floor with three 10mm bolts into nutserts in the floor.

 

:D

post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winno View Post
 

The sub low pass is set to 63Hz @ 18dB/oct.

In conjunction with the midbasses which high pass from 50Hz @ 18dB/oct, I can have its gain set fairly high before noticing that the bass isn't all out on the bonnet of the car any more.

By that stage though, all hopes of sound quality are gone as the bass overpowers everything else.

It shakes the seats, even when playing quietly as the thing is bolted to the floor with three 10mm bolts into nutserts in the floor.

 

:D

 

Nice. The Toyota Vios (Yaris sedan in N.America) also does a deep soundstage well, provided the subs don't pull the bass drum towards the rear, all thanks to its symmetrical dash layout with the instrument cluster on the center of the dash. 3-ways with cone midranges that go all the way down to 100hz are fantastic on those cars, although you lose a few install points since they're too bulky.

post #74 of 75

Ooh! I was hoping there was a thread like this. I'm a long time/old school car audio guy. Got in to it in high school and haven't looked back since. Currently my gear list looks like this:

  • 2013 Hyundai Sonata SE 2.0T
  • OEM Source Unit
  • Alpine PXE-H650 Signal Processor (this is a cool piece of tech as it automatically analyzes the sound and adjusts accordingly)
  • MTX Thunder 1004 Amplifier (old school beast of an amplifier)
  • Boston Acoustics RC61LF Midranges in factory locations
  • Boston Acoustics NEO-2r Tweeters in factory dash locations
  • Audiopipe APCL-15001d Amplifier
  • C2 Audio Threatcon 4 12" subwoofer
  • Tsunami 1/0 AWG cable

It sounds pretty good. The subwoofer is in a cheap ported pre-fab box as the trunk is kind of oddly shaped and I neither have the time or the desire to come up with a custom solution. I'd really like to get one of the new Kenwood Excelon indash DVD units as they support FLAC and then run that to the new PPI external DSP units.

post #75 of 75

I disappeared from the car audio "scene" for a few years and sort of just got back in.  A very small setup that will hold me over until I'm able to get a new car and then I'll be going big.  This is in a Toyota Tundra with the sub sitting on the floor behind the drivers seat.  I needed something small to not take up too much room (I've got a daughter and need all the seats) and can easily be taken out or moved around.

 

  • JVC double din headunit
  • RF Punch 6.5" 3-way (non-amped) in all 4 doors
  • Sundown Audio SD-2 8" subwoofer (300w rated, giving it ~450w @ 2ohms)
  • RF Prime R500X1D (500w rated, birth sheet @ 630w)
  • Sky High Car Audio cabling - 4ga AWG OFC power and ground wiring, 12ga AWG OFC speaker wire and 6ft RCA
  • .32cuft net sealed box (12"x12"x6.5"... see, nice and tiny)

 

May build a new, smaller, box to compensate for over-powering the subwoofer and see if it'll get a little louder.

 

---EDIT---

Apparently I can't add pictures yet :(

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