Quote:

han bao quan said:

Well, I think you got strange ears


 

Click to expand...

On Vulcan everybody have strange ears.

I can't agree Acix at all here. The AKG 702s are easily the least natural sounding headphones I've ever owned. Soundstage is abnormally large for every song which messes with the vocals in a bad way, making them sound distant and somewhat echoey at times. The bass quantity or lack of it makes everything sound way too thin as well for most recordings.

Quote:

han bao quan said:

 Graph is just one thing, it's not the end statement of how headphones will sound. There are many headphones that sound fantastic but looks like crap on the graph.
 


 

Click to expand...

This point can't be emphasized enough, IMO. The FR graph is a useful tool, but there are so many more qualitative aspects pertaining to how headphones sound that it's only a very small part of the picture.

Quote:

leng jai said:

I can't agree Acix at all here. The AKG 702s are easily the least natural sounding headphones I've ever owned. Soundstage is abnormally large for every song which messes with the vocals in a bad way, making them sound distant and somewhat echoey at times. The bass quantity or lack of it makes everything sound way too thin as well for most recordings.

Click to expand...

 
The K70X are not so good with tubes, as we'll know by now, and they will never get this power GTI engine that they get from a good SS amps...  and in this case is better for you to go with the best SS amp that you can effort.
 
The Headroom graph have no intention to lie to you, they measure the hps with the same equipment.
 
If you read my review you'll see what the owner of the T1 had to say...
 

I use the K702s with the Burson HA160, so no I don't think my amp was an issue at all.
 
Please don't bring graphs into this.

Quote:

focker said:

This point can't be emphasized enough, IMO. The FR graph is a useful tool, but there are so many more qualitative aspects pertaining to how headphones sound that it's only a very small part of the picture.

Click to expand...

You're right, the graph show only a part of the story...and yet is a great tool to see if the hps are balanced/natural, and if and where they have boost and spikes on the sound spectrum.
 
 
Back to the topic...with the price of the new T1 the OP can get a new Q701, and a used LCD2 under 1K that will bring other flavor of sound.

 

I can agree with this.
 
To my ears the K702 sound fake and forced. Note the coloration and resonance you get from the ear cup. That alone makes the sound wonky. Also the K702 has more strident highs and they don't sound smooth at all. More like a jagged edge. The treble sounds like it's turned up a notch to boost detail, more than what it needed. Amping has nothing to do with it as my K702 was driven by some, very very good amps, and while they never cured these issues, they did make them less noticeable. The mids on the K701 are thin and have this wonky coloration that sounds forced. The bass is another issue all together. while it offers good extension it does start to roll off early and loses impact. The soundstage is too large in width and too constricted in depth and height. 
 
I am bashing the K702 for it's flaws, but I'm not hater. I do love their sound, even though it's hardly accurate or natural.
 
Quote:

leng jai said:

I can't agree Acix at all here. The AKG 702s are easily the least natural sounding headphones I've ever owned. Soundstage is abnormally large for every song which messes with the vocals in a bad way, making them sound distant and somewhat echoey at times. The bass quantity or lack of it makes everything sound way too thin as well for most recordings.

Click to expand...

 

I went from a K601 to a T1 and can say that if you want a headphone with a different sound signature, you might be disappointed with the T1. Not that the T1 performs poorly, as I find it better than the K601 in every area, but it may not meet your expectations as a 'bass oriented' headphone. The bass, while improved over the K601/701, is certainly not a standout feature of the headphone compared with something like a D7000 or LCD-2. The T1's standout features for me would be its superb imaging and accurate soundstage (though not amazingly wide like the HD800), detail, and overall well balanced sound which makes it well suited for many different types of music. 

Quote:

zombie_x said:

I can agree with this.
 
To my ears the K702 sound fake and forced. Note the coloration and resonance you get from the ear cup. That alone makes the sound wonky. Also the K702 has more strident highs and they don't sound smooth at all. More like a jagged edge. The treble sounds like it's turned up a notch to boost detail, more than what it needed. Amping has nothing to do with it as my K702 was driven by some, very very good amps, and while they never cured these issues, they did make them less noticeable. The mids on the K701 are thin and have this wonky coloration that sounds forced. The bass is another issue all together. while it offers good extension it does start to roll off early and loses impact. The soundstage is too large in width and too constricted in depth and height. 
 
I am bashing the K702 for it's flaws, but I'm not hater. I do love their sound, even though it's hardly accurate or natural.
 


 

Click to expand...

 
Hehehe, you can keep bashing the K702 as much as you want to... but this will not make the T1 to sounds better, or more balanced, or accurate.
 
More boost on the bass means less accurate and less natural bass. 
 
The T1 have more sound coloration, and less depth and soundstage compare to the K-702...you can keep ignoring the T1 flaws, but the truth is out there on the Headroom graphs. 
 

 
 

Quote:

acix said:

Hehehe, you can keep bashing the K702 as much as you want to... but this will not make the T1 to sounds better, or more balanced, or accurate.
 
More boost on the bass means less accurate and less natural bass. 
 
The T1 have more sound coloration, and less depth and soundstage compare to the K-702...you can keep ignoring the T1 flaws, but the truth is out there on the Headroom graphs.
 

Click to expand...

How about you stop reading graphs and actually try listening to them? The T1s are simply better balanced and beat the AKGs in soundstaging all day long. No bass does not equal balanced, and the T1s are anything but bass heavy.
 
No one is bashing anything here....the AKGs still sound good, especially considering their price (I preferred them to many others in that range, including the Beyer DT880s). However there are still noticeable improvements across the board when you step up to the T1, which is also reflected in the price difference. They are simply in a different class.
 

Sorry for the slight derailment guys. My vote still goes towards the T1. The PS500 is still a nice option but I feel it's more of a side grade. 
 
The K702 is more colored than the T1 is, by a mile. There is nothing natural, flat, or accurate about the K702 at all. It sounds artificial and no the T1 is not bass heavy at all. I would say it has more bass than the K702, but the K702 bass rolls off really early and the bass itself is not all that pronounced to begin with. I can live with the K702 bass, but it sounds thin due to the roll off. The K702 soundstage is widened too much, in comparison the HD800 soundstage is far, far better.
 
The best AKG in my opinion is the K501. It has none of the flaws that the K702 has and the midrange is perfect. The K701 is a good headphone, but I rate the K501 and K400 higher than it. Harmon really messed up the K701 when it was released. The forced neutrality, colorations, everything about the sound screams artificial.
 
You know, I am tired of you always using the graphs. Graphs mean absolutely jack when it comes to the sound of a headphone. They are never 100% reliable so you should never go by them.
 
As DuxR said, the K702 is still a good headphone. I really do like the K702 but after a while the coloration started to irk me and I had to sell it off. I've always stated that they sound fake or forced, and they really do. You can't hear it in the mids? The coloration makes them sound plasticy and fake.
 
I'm done arguing my point since I can never win. Point being is that the T1 is a far better headphone and is largely more neutral than the K702. Also the Auditor/Phonitor don't drive them that well, trust me. The combo just induces bloating to the sound. I should know, I've tried. It does not even give them enough current.
 
EDIT: Sorry about the harshness of the post. I've had a terrible day. A close member of my family was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer of the lung and .... I'm having a real hard time here. So I hope you guys understand why I had to vent..
 
Not to take it out on you Acix, I'm usually really reserved but I've been so stressed recently that I snapped a bit. Sorry man.
 
 

Quote:

zombie_x said:

Sorry for the slight derailment guys. My vote still goes towards the T1. The PS500 is still a nice option but I feel it's more of a side grade. 
 
The K702 is more colored than the T1 is, by a mile. There is nothing natural, flat, or accurate about the K702 at all. It sounds artificial and no the T1 is not bass heavy at all. I would say it has more bass than the K702, but the K702 bass rolls off really early and the bass itself is not all that pronounced to begin with. I can live with the K702 bass, but it sounds thin due to the roll off. The K702 soundstage is widened too much, in comparison the HD800 soundstage is far, far better.
 
The best AKG in my opinion is the K501. It has none of the flaws that the K702 has and the midrange is perfect. The K701 is a good headphone, but I rate the K501 and K400 higher than it. Harmon really messed up the K701 when it was released. The forced neutrality, colorations, everything about the sound screams artificial.
 
You know, I am tired of you always using the graphs. Graphs mean absolutely jack when it comes to the sound of a headphone. They are never 100% reliable so you should never go by them.
 
As DuxR said, the K702 is still a good headphone. I really do like the K702 but after a while the coloration started to irk me and I had to sell it off. I've always stated that they sound fake or forced, and they really do. You can't hear it in the mids? The coloration makes them sound plasticy and fake.
 
I'm done arguing my point since I can never win. Point being is that the T1 is a far better headphone and is largely more neutral than the K702. Also the Auditor/Phonitor don't drive them that well, trust me. The combo just induces bloating to the sound. I should know, I've tried. It does not even give them enough current.
 
EDIT: Sorry about the harshness of the post. I've had a terrible day. A close member of my family was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer of the lung and .... I'm having a real hard time here. So I hope you guys understand why I had to vent..
 
Not to take it out on you Acix, I'm usually really reserved but I've been so stressed recently that I snapped a bit. Sorry man.
 
 

Click to expand...

No need to get stressed over the T1. The differences between the T1 and the K702 are not dramatic as you present them. About the SPL amps, the Phonitor have a few functions over the Auditor, one of the functions is a -20db DIMM that give the Phonitor advantage over the Auditor for low-impedance headphones as the K702.
 
About the graphs... let keep some dignity here, because they obviously don't lie to you about the T1 or other hps.
 
 

Not only does Head-Room cite: "And take everything with a fairly good sized grain of salt." with regard to their measurements...
 
...but everyone has different sized and shaped ears & ear canals; FR graphs for speakers make more sense.

Acix, take a look at the HD800 vs. K701 graph on headroom if you will... Does HD800's bass also looks boosted compared to your "prefect" AKG's?
 
What you often like to forget is the fact the HP's are NOT supposed to be measured flat like speakers and a slight boost in the bass in dip in lower treble, like 4-7khz if i'm not mistaken (where the K701 are boosted approximatley in this range) are beneficial for a percived neutral response, to the best of my knowledge.
 
I've also heard the T1s and have owned the K701's in the past, there's just no way in hell the they're on the same level soncally, I don't even need to A/B them nex to each other to make this conclusion.

Quote:

amarphael said:

Acix, take a look at the HD800 vs. K701 graph on headroom if you will... Does HD800's bass also looks boosted compared to your "prefect" AKG's?
 
What you often like to forget is the fact the HP's are NOT supposed to be measured flat like speakers and a slight boost in the bass in dip in lower treble, like 4-7khz if i'm not mistaken (where the K701 are boosted approximatley in this range) are beneficial for a percived neutral response, to the best of my knowledge.
 
I've also heard the T1s and have owned the K701's in the past, there's just no way in hell the they're on the same level soncally, I don't even need to A/B them nex to each other to make this conclusion.

Click to expand...