Wow, Ultimate Ears 600 measurements look good!

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UltimateEarsUE600.pdf
 
If I am not mistaken, this are some pretty impressive results for a $100 IEM! I am pretty sure I will be picking up a pair of these tomorrow at a local Best Buy store to see if it sounds as well as it measures. The frequency response looks nice and natural. Actually, it is =2731&graphID[1]=3471&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones]almost identical to that of Shure SE535. Also, the square wave response graphs look really impressive. Compare the results to those of similar top firing (or whatever it's called lol) balance armature driver based Phonak Audeo PFE: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudeoPFE121GrayFilter.pdf. UE600 clearly measures better. There is some odd rise in distortion through the midrange, but the PFE has even more. I know measurements aren't everything, but still - I think it may be a very special IEM this UE600. What do you guys think? I am interested in hearing some opinions on how they actually sound from the owners of this IEM.

Trust me, I've owned these in the past and they suck for the price. Sound nothing like a SE535. Frequency response graphs is not an absolute indication of the quality of the sound.

Pianist,
 
The UE600 sounds a bit like the UM3x but it needs more bass and mids. It's thin sounding but it is likely that an iBuds user will be easily impressed with it. Well.. at least I am at the time. 

Quote:

nikp said:

Pianist,
 
The UE600 sounds a bit like the UM3x but it needs more bass and mids. It's thin sounding but it is likely that an iBuds user will be easily impressed with it. Well.. at least I am at the time. 

Click to expand...

 
It sure doesn't look like it needs more bass or mids from that frequency repsonse graph. The 30 Hz square wave response graph indicates that UE600 has some pretty impressive low end extension.

If we started believing frequency response graphs as an indication of sound quality then $100 headphones will look as good as $2000 headphones.

Quote:

pianist said:

 
It sure doesn't look like it needs more bass or mids from that frequency repsonse graph. The 30 Hz square wave response graph indicates that UE600 has some pretty impressive low end extension.

Click to expand...

 
Not extension I'm craving, it's the bass that dynamic IEMs/Headphones offer. 
 
@ProjectDenz FR graphs don't tell the whole story. There's resolution, imaging, soundstage, etc. Putting bias aside, $2000 headphones don't perform even 50% better than $200-300 ones.
 
 
 

Quote:

nikp said:

Not extension I'm craving, it's the bass that dynamic IEMs/Headphones offer. 

Click to expand...

Well, I think balanced armature drivers are capable of providing a very accurate bass response - more accurate than most dynamics IMO.
 
Quote:

projectdenz said:

If we started believing frequency response graphs as an indication of sound quality then $100 headphones will look as good as $2000 headphones.

Click to expand...

 
But it's not just the UE600 frequency response graph that looks good, but also the square wave response graphs, which look better than those of HE-500 and HD800. Not saying UE600 is better than those, but still the results are very impressive IMO.

 
 

projectdenz said:

If we started believing frequency response graphs as an indication of sound quality then $100 headphones will look as good as $2000 headphones.

Click to expand...

This does not make sense at all. Just because graphs are accurate all of a sudden $100 headphones sound as good as 2000$ ones? the logic should be reversed. There are cases where budget stuff measures and does sound just as good as good as stuff that is much more expensive, but in general people bias price with performance. I think people who skew graphs are those that need to take more time in understanding them. 
 
 

nikp said:

Not extension I'm craving, it's the bass that dynamic IEMs/Headphones offer. 
 
@ProjectDenz FR graphs don't tell the whole story. There's resolution, imaging, soundstage, etc. Putting bias aside, $2000 headphones don't perform even 50% better than $200-300 ones.

Click to expand...

Sounds right, the UE600 is close to flat, whereas your preferences seem to lean toward a more bass lenient sound. Not all full-sizes are big on bass, matter of fact, the better ones are those with more prudent bass levels that emphasize on depth. With more bass, you compromise some information in the midrange, no matter the quality of the driver or the fact that there's no bleed (which is more of a worst case scenario). If anything I wish the UE600 would have a tiny bit less bass, I think the GR10/SE535s hit a sweetspot at their level. It's bass level seems very correct actually, I wouldn't want more at all as that's pushing for midrange coloration. 
 
 
nipk

@ProjectDenz FR graphs don't tell the whole story. There's resolution, imaging, soundstage, etc. Putting bias aside, $2000 headphones don't perform even 50% better than $200-300 ones.

Click to expand...

If read correctly, it does tell you about resolution and imaging (related to transient response, which the impulse response/300hz SW would indicate). Soundstage is a factor that can't be measured, but it's also probably the most subjective aspect there is. Bigger isn't always better. 

pianist said:

Well, I think balanced armature drivers are capable of providing a very accurate bass response - more accurate than most dynamics IMO.
 
 
But it's not just the UE600 frequency response graph that looks good, but also the square wave response graphs, which look better than those of HE-500 and HD800. Not saying UE600 is better than those, but still the results are very impressive IMO.

Click to expand...

Problem is, most people on this site are bassheads or mild cases that don't want an accurate response, because it sounds fun to them. Yes, bass needs to be boosted for compensation, but it can't get out of hand. BAs do have a more accurate bass than dynamics, the problem with dynamics is that the air movement isn't quite as controlled and that is why they're slower and bassier. 
 
UE600 does graph really well, but it's weakness will be it's treble and speed. Seems quite polite, but then again, it's pretty much on par with the SE535 on that part. 
 
The UE600 does seem quite underrated and I really wonder how it will response to more impedance as it clearly add treble with it. I think PFE's bass depth may also as linear with foam tips, will have to double check. PFEs do have better transient speed and treble and it's bass has less weight, which translates to a slightly clearer midrange. Also, the PFE is not a top-firing BA, it's standard, but angled. 
 

 
 
 

Quote:

inks said:

 
Sounds right, the UE600 is close to flat, whereas your preferences seem to lean toward a more bass lenient sound. Not all full-sizes are big on bass, matter of fact, the better ones are those with more prudent bass levels that emphasize on depth. With more bass, you compromise some information in the midrange, no matter the quality of the driver or the fact that there's no bleed (which is more of a worst case scenario). If anything I wish the UE600 would have a tiny bit less bass, I think the GR10/SE535s hit a sweetspot at their level. It's bass level seems very correct actually, I wouldn't want more at all as that's pushing for midrange coloration. 
 
 
If read correctly, it does tell you about resolution and imaging (related to transient response, which the impulse response/300hz SW would indicate). Soundstage is a factor that can't be measured, but it's also probably the most subjective aspect there is. Bigger isn't always better. 
 
 

Click to expand...

Nope, I don't like particularly bass emphasised IEMs/cans. My impressions were from a year ago so I might have mixed it up with the UE700. My reference can is the HD600 which I think has the right amount of bass in them. 

In that case, the UE600s bass levels should be fine for you since it's close to the HD600s level, granted you can get a good seal. 

Quote:

inks said:

In that case, the UE600s bass levels should be fine for you since it's close to the HD600s level, granted you can get a good seal. 

Click to expand...

The UE600's cables are prone to microphonics though.. I think that was the primary reason I sold them.
 

Yeah that does seem to be an issue. SF5 is the same thing with a different cable and I think it was mentioned to be less microphonic. Of course, over the ear helps. 

I prefer to refer bass as a "fullness of sound."  As much as Etymotics like to tells us their sound is most accurate, I have yet to sit in a recording studio and hear that thin of a sound.  I truly don't get that??
 
Bass (fullness) is a good thing.  It makes the music more "alive" and more like headphones and more "live".
 
Perfect example is W2 versus W4.   They are pretty similar with that Westone sound sig but the W3 provides that very inviting, warm, underlying fullness of sound that makes it undeniably better.  Like bookshelf speakers versus floor speakers.  Really no comparison.

Guys, I picked a pair of these up at a local best buy store yesterday and have been listening to them for most of the day yesterday and this morning and I have to say I am blown away! No, they are not perfect - the treble is somewhat lacking in quality I think, but the mids and bass are stunning for an IEM at this price point! Let's just say that given the right source and music, these handily outperform my RE262 and RE272 and by quite a margin. In sound signature, they are indeed very similar sounding to the Shure SE535, just like the graphs show. In fact, I just sold SE535 recently because I was unable to get a good fit with them and with the music where SE535 excelled, I find that the UE600 excels as well, providing an uncannily similar sound to the Shures and almost as good technically in the lows and mids with the main differences being that the Shures do have a smoother sounding treble, somewhat better dynamics (although I can't say for sure unless I AB the two directly) and a more 3 dimensional and transparent soundstage with better imaging - UE600 sound somewhat boxy and narrow by comparison, but the soundstage depth on them easily competes with that of the Shures. But UE600 also has a huge advantage over multi driver BAs, including the SE535 and that is a perfectly coherent sound that always sounds consistent in tone. No multi driver I heard sounded as coherent to me as a good single driver does.

Quote:

inks said:

UE600 does graph really well, but it's weakness will be it's treble and speed. Seems quite polite, but then again, it's pretty much on par with the SE535 on that part. 

Click to expand...

 
Agreed about the treble - I find it somewhat harsh sounding and lacking detail, which is a shame because the bass and mids are like world class on these things. Seriously. I would take these over the PFE any day personally. I though PFE was thin sounding and had unnatural timbre. With the grey filters, I found it too bright and with the black filters the detail in the bass and mids was too glossed over for my tastes. I find the UE600 much better balanced and more natural sounding overall than the PFE.