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HE-400/HE-300 vs Sennheiser HD650/HD600 - Page 4

post #46 of 59

HE-400 are full-fledged planar magnetics.  There's no getting around that.  

 

I don't think HD650 needs all that much to drive, but the HD650 crowd loves to use the most expensive amps they can find so their hd650s can sound marginally and marginally better.  Just because an amp sounds a tad better doesn't mean there's a difference between properly driving the headphone or not.  Likewise HE-400 can get a decent volume out of an iPod, but not for high dynamic range songs.

 

And he's right, that page was last updated September '11.  Linking it is ridiculous.


Edited by TMRaven - 5/29/12 at 4:30pm
post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

 

HD650s tend to sound boring and rolled-off with suboptimal amplification, and requires really good amps to shine. With a cheap amp, HE-400 outperforms HD650 in most areas considerably. It is not just about volume in this case, so numbers about impedance/sensitivity are irrelevant.

 

But again, the HE-400s are driven sufficiently AND driven well out of just about any small amp, period.

 

Agreed.  If using a modest amp, HE-400 will easily outperform HD650.   When moving up to higher  end amps/sources HE-400 also improves with it, as does HD650.  Eventually a point is reached where HD650 can begin overtaking HE-400, however that's after relatively considerable investment.   An investment that would benefit both cans.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

HE-400 are full-fledged planar magnetics.  There's no getting around that.  

 

I don't think HD650 needs all that much to drive, but the HD650 crowd loves to use the most expensive amps they can find so their hd650s can sound marginally and marginally better.  Just because an amp sounds a tad better doesn't mean there's a difference between properly driving the headphone or not.  Likewise HE-400 can get a decent volume out of an iPod, but not for high dynamic range songs.

 

And he's right, that page was last updated September '11.  Linking it is ridiculous.

 

I suspect the confusion of "is HE-400 a full planar or not" is related to HE-4 which was sort of a half-a-planar with magnets on only one side.  HE-400 is as full a planar as HE-6 and LCD-2.  Magnet arrays on both sides of a large trace inlaid diaphragm producing square (planar) sound waves.

 

HD650 takes much less current than HE-400.  It takes much more voltage to get going.  But both (all really) headphones will of course improve performance with a higher quality more controlled amp.  HD650 just happens to be legendary for responding very far into the incremental increases of the source before reaching it's max potential where many other headphones will peak long before then.  The big difference is that Senns in general are just really picky about impedance matching and gain.

post #48 of 59

Hi,

 

I am too considering the HE-400 vs HD650 as an upgrade to my HD598's. The thing is I will be running them out of a Yulong D100 Amp/DAC - wondering which headphone to choose based on this.

 

Personal Tastes are:

- I listen to a lot of Hip-Hop, Rap, Rnb and also a lot of 80s, Elton John etc.

- I hence love PUNCHY bass but still love a large soundstage

- I want the LEAST fatiguing as possible and also don't like forward presentations of music - the more laid back the better as I can listen for longer!

- Comfortability is a really big deal to me! (I prefer the pleather on my Denon AHD5000s as to my HD598s - I also don't like HP that clamp hard on ears)

 

I enjoy my HD598s, however to criticize them they lack punchy bass and find them to be fatiguing high volumes (however on low volumes it has great soundstage with no fatigue). For these reasons, I have read HD650s are very laid back and so I think is what I want as it will sound more relaxing at high volumes? In contrary to this however, HE-400s have punchier bass? I own Denon AHD5000, and if the HD598 had the punchy bass of Denons and was more laid back - that would be a perfect headphone for me!

 

Amp/DAC Upgrade I am not particularly looking to upgrade. Maybe in 1 years time I might get the Yulong A100 Amp to help out if I really needed it - but that would be it for my setup.

 

So basically, which will perform best on my Yulong D100 and provide enough punchy bass, yet stay relaxed, laid back and not fatigue my ears?

 

Great appreciation for anyone who has advice on this! Cheers!

post #49 of 59

Do not get the HD650.

post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Do not get the HD650.


+1 cause even when driven by Burson 160D (cost at least $900 USED) can't give you deep sub-bass

post #51 of 59

Oh great - thanks for that! Seems like an easy one - sorry if it seemed obvious :)

 

So, you recommend the HE400?

 

Also, you mean to say the HD598 has more bass than HD650 (or even HD600) since you recommend not to upgrade to them? I understand they are not bassy headphones, however wanted something as bassier as possible than HD598 on open can with large soundstage etc.

post #52 of 59

HE-400 have deep tight punchy well controlled bass

post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by olegausany View Post

HE-400 have deep tight punchy well controlled bass

Oh great, thank you so much! I love getting direct answers :D Cheers

post #54 of 59
The HE-300s and HD650s have a lot in common with regards to sound signature. The HE-300s have more and better bass, while the HD650s have superior mids, both have rather rolled-off highs. The Senns have a bit broader soundstage, while the HE-300s have slightly better detail. An edge for the 650s is superior build quality and better comfort, however the HE-300s are cheaper and are in no way crappy or uncomfortable. Both are good, but at full retail I'd go with the HiFiMANs, but if you can get a deal on the 650s for around $350 they're a lot more competitive.

The HE-400s? They blow all the mid range Sennheisers out of the water (the high end too, IMO). They're a fantastic buy at $400, simply put they're the best in their price class.
Edited by Magick Man - 8/25/12 at 2:03am
post #55 of 59
It appears he400 wins easily! Thank you for responses.

Out of curiosity, what would be the next best value upgrade to the he400s? He500s? Or are there better headphones around the $700 mark?

Also, is comfort an issue with he400?

How much better are lcd2, t1 etc? Are they ever worth the upgrade since they are 3 times the price? I can't seem to justify how much better the sound quality could be. Would he500s be something to aim for?
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golotripa View Post

It appears he400 wins easily! Thank you for responses.
Out of curiosity, what would be the next best value upgrade to the he400s? He500s? Or are there better headphones around the $700 mark?
Also, is comfort an issue with he400?
How much better are lcd2, t1 etc? Are they ever worth the upgrade since they are 3 times the price? I can't seem to justify how much better the sound quality could be. Would he500s be something to aim for?

 

Read my impressions about a lot of top-end headphones vs HE400s here, from the local head-fi meet I attended today. Mind you it is my own opinion with my ears as the judge. I looked for naturalness of timbre, balance, musicality, fun, and details. Oh and I'm very picky with regards to critiquing headphone sound.

post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golotripa View Post

It appears he400 wins easily! Thank you for responses.
Out of curiosity, what would be the next best value upgrade to the he400s? He500s? Or are there better headphones around the $700 mark?
Also, is comfort an issue with he400?
How much better are lcd2, t1 etc? Are they ever worth the upgrade since they are 3 times the price? I can't seem to justify how much better the sound quality could be. Would he500s be something to aim for?


HE-400 are heavy but most people adjust to their weight and comfort within a week, also make sure you order velour pads. I consider T1 worth of upgrade if I could get them in like new condition for $900 but wouldn't waste money on LCD2 or HD800

post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

sorry but they only put out 83db for 1mw which is'nt much then hd650s do over a hundred for 1 mw elctrostatic/dyanmic drivers need high volt and current.
 

 Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?

    

https://new.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=115 = EXTREMELY easy to drive, even right out of an iPod.

    

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

probably not a proper planer. electrostatic need volts not something the e7 or e17 can do my hd650's need a bigger amp as well. ps stop using CAPITALS it makes my eyes bleed.

   

Please, before you get into the issue of CAPITALS, perhaps you need to go back to school and learn basic elementary grade school english.

It's very difficult to read your messages with the MANY spelling errors, your inability to apply BASIC grammar and to construct simple sentences, let alone your total inability to properly capitalize and use correct punctuation. You come off as functionally illiterate.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

Its at a long list of failed cans,

http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Orthodynamic_Headphones_Rating_Chart

P.S

Understand Electrostatics and Orthodontics.

P.P.S.

The He400 doesnt feature only the HE5-LE.

    

This list is from 2009, over 3 years ago, long long before many of the aforementioned headphones were even released.  Please use correct and up to date statistics before making erroneous and unsubstantiated responses.

re/P.S. - And what does dentistry (orthodontics) "dealing with the prevention and correction of irregular teeth, as by means of braces" have anything to do with headphones?

re/P.P.S - huh????

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

Does that mean the he-400 are proper electrostatic/dynamic drivers there still not in the list. PS im not a kid im 43. You obviously love reading official specs.
 

    

Come on now, you really can't be 43, you come off more like a trolling and illiterate child.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

i suggest you read up on tesla and planer technology its not quite that simple.
 

    

Duhhh... Tesla technology is simply Dynamic technology, and its Planar (not planer) technology.

     Can you please do some proper reading and research before responding to something that you have no knowledge of, and if you do feel

     compelled to respond please have someone proofread and correct your responses before you publish them.


Edited by charliex - 10/17/12 at 8:15am
post #59 of 59

This is all personal preference of course but if you like a "neutral" headphone I would definitely pick the HD600 over the 650.  I've tried lots of things and I always just end up back at my HD600's.  I personally don't think you getter better bang for the buck.  I have not yet auditioned the HE-400's but am very interested to do so.  

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