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The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio (with binaural headphone surround sound) - Page 197

post #2941 of 3716

hello guys.. im a csgo player with titanium 7.1 (with SR850).

i play for a long time with the same settings.. and there are things that i think that can improve.

the thing that makes me wonder is.. is Dolby Digital live encoder should be on for the game? (the sound of movies with it sounds better, idk if its the same for games).

and about ALchemy (which never worked for me = terrible ripping sound in game), i dont know if its needed for me.

and what about the sound configuration in game?.. i have headphones on creative driver and 7.1 on windows. which works. but in-game it has only headphones and 5.1. which should i choose?

i hear things yes. but it looks like i really need to focus my attention to sound and sometimes i fail at hearing things that when i used to play pure headphone/stereo i never failed.

 

i dont know what to do cause i feel like im not getting the full use of my hardware.

thanks for helping

post #2942 of 3716
Hey, my Asus maximum hero vi has a supremefx sound card, specifically designed for their rog series. Any insighty anyone here could provide me regarding that as to if its a decent sound card or do I need to add an extra soundcard into my PC for gaming with surround sound?
post #2943 of 3716
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pric0 View Post
hello guys.. im a csgo player with titanium 7.1 (with SR850).

i play for a long time with the same settings.. and there are things that i think that can improve.

the thing that makes me wonder is.. is Dolby Digital live encoder should be on for the game? (the sound of movies with it sounds better, idk if its the same for games).

and about ALchemy (which never worked for me = terrible ripping sound in game), i dont know if its needed for me.

and what about the sound configuration in game?.. i have headphones on creative driver and 7.1 on windows. which works. but in-game it has only headphones and 5.1. which should i choose?

i hear things yes. but it looks like i really need to focus my attention to sound and sometimes i fail at hearing things that when i used to play pure headphone/stereo i never failed.

 

i dont know what to do cause i feel like im not getting the full use of my hardware.

thanks for helping

 

Dolby Digital Live is ONLY for S/PDIF output. If you're running analog, leave it off; there's no point in having it on.

 

ALchemy is only needed for DirectSound3D games. CS:GO doesn't have DS3D enabled by default, nor does any other Source engine game; you need to sent "snd_legacy_surround" to 1 in the console.

 

In-game, I'd go with 5.1/7.1, though it never hurts to experiment!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb3412 View Post
Hey, my Asus maximum hero vi has a supremefx sound card, specifically designed for their rog series. Any insighty anyone here could provide me regarding that as to if its a decent sound card or do I need to add an extra soundcard into my PC for gaming with surround sound?

 

Asus didn't license any virtual surround tech whatsoever for the Maximus VI lineup, which is bothersome.

 

That means you have to hope that Razer Surround works for you or pitch in for a sound card.

post #2944 of 3716

Do you think CMSS-3D is the best? Do you mind recommending a soundcard? Im gonna use my Dacmagic plus since fom what I read I can still use CMSS-3D if i do some settings? And still be able to use the DACs features and amp.

 

Thanks

post #2945 of 3716
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallonpaj View Post

Do you think CMSS-3D is the best? Do you mind recommending a soundcard? Im gonna use my Dacmagic plus since fom what I read I can still use CMSS-3D if i do some settings? And still be able to use the DACs features and amp.

Thanks
I think it's the best so far. Not everyone agrees with me; we all have different ears.

With a nice external DAC like that, you can just get a cheap card like an X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) for the DSP effects and run S/PDIF to the DACMagic. It's pretty easy to set up.
post #2946 of 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallonpaj View Post

Do you think CMSS-3D is the best? Do you mind recommending a soundcard? Im gonna use my Dacmagic plus since fom what I read I can still use CMSS-3D if i do some settings? And still be able to use the DACs features and amp.

Thanks
I think it's the best so far. Not everyone agrees with me; we all have different ears.

With a nice external DAC like that, you can just get a cheap card like an X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) for the DSP effects and run S/PDIF to the DACMagic. It's pretty easy to set up.
Nice, thanks!
Now I just gotta choose headphones. Would you go for the ad700x for just gaming? I basically only play csgo so I want the best possible positioning and able to hear footsteps.


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post #2947 of 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallonpaj View Post



Nice, thanks!
Now I just gotta choose headphones. Would you go for the ad700x for just gaming? I basically only play csgo so I want the best possible positioning and able to hear footsteps.


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If you're not concerned about music/movies/immersive gaming at all then they should serve you well for your intended purpose. What other headphones are available in your neck of the woods? The K612, Q701, or even the K702 would be solid alternatives. They will all be fairly close to each other as far as competitive sound goes, but the K612 and Q701 would give you a bit fuller overall sound without taking much of anything from the detail or soundstage. 

post #2948 of 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder Mike View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallonpaj View Post



Nice, thanks!
Now I just gotta choose headphones. Would you go for the ad700x for just gaming? I basically only play csgo so I want the best possible positioning and able to hear footsteps.


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If you're not concerned about music/movies/immersive gaming at all then they should serve you well for your intended purpose. What other headphones are available in your neck of the woods? The K612, Q701, or even the K702 would be solid alternatives. They will all be fairly close to each other as far as competitive sound goes, but the K612 and Q701 would give you a bit fuller overall sound without taking much of anything from the detail or soundstage. 

I think we have most of those here in Sweden. I wouldn't mind if I could get a pair that is good for music too, if I don't have to sacrifice any detail or soundstage for gaming. Maybe a pair of akgs would be better? Or the sony 900? Was thinking of Hifiman he400 too, but from the review I felt that they weren't that good for gaming?


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post #2949 of 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallonpaj View Post


I think we have most of those here in Sweden. I wouldn't mind if I could get a pair that is good for music too, if I don't have to sacrifice any detail or soundstage for gaming. Maybe a pair of akgs would be better? Or the sony 900? Was thinking of Hifiman he400 too, but from the review I felt that they weren't that good for gaming?


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If you can find the MA900 around the same price as the AKG K12 Pro or Q701, it would be worth considering. The HE400 is not something I would ever consider for gaming, based on comfort alone. 

post #2950 of 3716

I sincerely apologize for making a double-post, but I wasn't sure whether I posted my other questions in the right threads. I was directed to several threads at once and unfortunately, I haven't found answers to the questions I had after doing some research.

 

Anyway, below are my PC's audio components & their impedance:

Realtek ALC892 Onboard sound @ 2ohms

ASUS Xonar DGX  @ 10ohms w/ UNi drivers & updated Dolby Headphone 7.1 Shifter profile

Sennheiser HD-280 Pro Monitoring headphones @ 64ohms

Logitech Z-680 505W DD/DTS 5.1 speakers @ 8ohms 

 

I'm a PC gamer who enjoys Dolby Headphone positional/surround audio/sound, but I am not an audiophile with a good sense of hearing who can easily differentiate between good & bad sound quality. I can, however, tell when positional audio is not accurate in terms of sound direction and sound distance. The main and the only audio/sound complaint I have is that Dolby Headphone technology has this reverberation / echo with any settings I try, but at the same time it makes the spatial/positional sound cues more differentiated/accurate to my ears than some other technologies I have tried, like CMSS-3D. I can always tell where the sound is coming from and how far away it is with Dolby Headphone. All this led me to try out something else I liked and found not only comparable, but also superior to Dolby Headphone - Creative's SBX Pro @ 30%. SBX Pro seems to produce the cleanest positional audio out of all available technologies/methods/licenses I have tried, like Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, Razer Kraken 7.1 Virtual Surround Engine, etc.

 

There are several questions I would like someone to answer or just provide some feedback before I make a decision to buy Sound Blaster Z, which supports SBX Pro:

- If anyone noticed, SBX Pro offers exactly the same features as THX TruStudio Pro did a few years back. The web page dedicated to SBX Pro has an identical address to the one that used to be dedicated to THX TruStudio Pro. Some say that SBX Pro is simply a re-branded THX TruStudio Pro. Is that true? My Realtek ALC892 onboard sound supports a freely available THX TruStudio Pro package & utilities at http://www.station-drivers.com/. If it sounds exactly or very close to SBX Pro, then I will not need to upgrade to Sound Blaster Z! In fact, I could even get rid of my ASUS Xonar DGX. The most important factors for me are the positional accuracy and the clarity of the sound itself. That is what makes up "sound quality" in my mind.

 

- What about other technologies such as Dolby Digital Plus Advanced Audio (latest version), Dolby Home Theatre v4, and DTS Surround Sound Sensation? They all feature downmixing 5.7/7.1 multi-channel audio to 2.0 stereo for headphone output. There are other technologies/licenses that may do the same with Realtek ALC892 and here is the list:

+Dolby SRS TruSurround HD

+SRS Premium Sound 

+Fortemedia SAM 

+Synopsys Sonic Focus

+DTS Surround Sensation | UltraPC 

+DTS Connect

I know that some of the above technologies, like DTS Connect are used to send 5.1 compressed sound over SPDIF, just like Dolby Digital Live, and they cannot be used for virtual surround sound in headphones. This is why I came here to inquire further. At first, I thought that all of these were just gimmicks, but then I learned that many people thought SBX Pro was the best, while others thought SBX Pro may have been nothing new and nothing more than THX TruStudio Pro, which I can get any time I want.

 

I know onboard sound can suck at times, but the only real difference between all these soundcards when it comes to sound processing are the licenses that were applied to them. I am sure that just about any decent soundcard like ASUS Xonar DGX could support almost ALL of the features I listed, given they get licensed for them and supporting driver & software are provided. Take a look at Realtek ALC1150 - on some motherboards it supports basic Realtek-support audio technologies,, but on others that had their makers buy the right license, ALC1150 supports SBX Pro!!! Onboard sound has a higher chance of producing crackling sounds, noises, having all kinds of small distortions, but the issue is not with the chip itself or the processing. The issue is how the chip was integrated. Many new motherboards today isolate the sound chip to prevent crackling and distortions from occurring and doing so worked! My motherboard is rather old - ASUS P8Z77-V Pro, but I have no crackling sounds or noises or any issues with it, which is why I would rather use it with THX TruStudio Pro instead of buying Sound Blaster Z. 

 

Impedance is another aspect that may benefit me more if I stick to my onboard Realtek ALC892 sound chip. ALC892 is rated @ 2 ohms, which would perfectly match my Sennheiser HD-280 Pro's with 64ohms and would be a better match for my Logitech Z-680 505W DD/DTS 5.1 8ohms speakers. ASUS Xonar DGX is a 10ohms soundcard, which creates a slight mismatch with my 64ohms headphones, and a huge mismatch with my 8ohms speakers. Sound Blaster Z has even a higher impedance of 22ohms! I know impedance mismatch is not a big deal and my Sennheiser HD-280 Pro 64ohms headphone could handle it with distortions so mild that I'd never even know, but my speakers would probably sound crappy, wouldn't they?

 

Anyway, I just need to know whether SBX Pro = THX TruStudio Pro by those who actually experienced both and whether there are other technologies superior or comparable to SBX Pro that are supported by my onboard chip. Only then I can decide if upgrading to Sound Blaster Z is worth it or not.

 

Sorry for the long post! I will appreciate any feedback you can provide.

 

Thank you!


Edited by MonarchX - 6/6/14 at 10:18am
post #2951 of 3716

For anybody else that has a Titanium HD, how big of a difference do you hear when switching the sampling rate from 48000 Hz to 96000 Hz?

 

I've noticed ever since I got my DT 880s a few years ago and actually increased the sample rate, and then even more so more recently when I upgraded to my TH-600s, that there seems to be this relatively big change in the sound for my system when increasing the sample rate to 96 kHz, like voices and certain instruments have a harder "digital" or (overly?) processed/artificial sound at 48 kHz compared to 96 and they sound more "smoothed out" or natural at the higher rate, but the soundstage width also seems to get compressed a bit. The difference is especially noticeable to me when comparing in TV shows or movies, and if I compared it in a game I would probably notice the same kind of thing.

 

I have no idea if this is normal behaviour for this card or for increasing the sampling rate from 48 to 96 on any sound card, or if there's something wrong with the drivers or what. This also seemed to change on the newest drivers they released for Windows 8.1, and 96 kHz mostly just sounds like a slightly soundstage-compressed version of 48 kHz on those ones. I ended up switching back to the older drivers just because 96 kHz makes things sound more "natural" on them. I'm just trying to find out if this is normal or if there's something seriously messed up with my setup or what. Thanks, guys.

 

I guess I should also mention, this is all on the Game mode with CMSS-3D on. I don't remember if it has the same drastic change on the other two modes, since I don't generally use them.


Edited by Dillweed - 6/7/14 at 10:01am
post #2952 of 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallonpaj View Post

Do you think CMSS-3D is the best? Do you mind recommending a soundcard? Im gonna use my Dacmagic plus since fom what I read I can still use CMSS-3D if i do some settings? And still be able to use the DACs features and amp.

Thanks
I think it's the best so far. Not everyone agrees with me; we all have different ears.

With a nice external DAC like that, you can just get a cheap card like an X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) for the DSP effects and run S/PDIF to the DACMagic. It's pretty easy to set up.
The stores only sell sound blaster z is that a newer version or should I just find x-fi in an other store?



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post #2953 of 3716

Anyone here has any experience with DTS Ultra PC II? Here is a screenshot of the Asus audio drivers on z97a (uses a Realtek ALC 892)

 

http://imgur.com/c8zP0xw

 

It seems to be a hrtf like cmss 3d or dolby headphone, i messed around with it a bit, don't know what to think about it yet.

 

The problem i have with this and Razer Surround is that both install a separate audio device dedicated to headphones. Now, why this is a problem? Because they lock the headphones to stereo only and you can't change that in the drivers or in the windows sound settings and most games nowadays they detect your speakers configuration by looking at the drivers/windows sound settings.

 

So i think that creates a problem with the hrtf technology because they change the game output to pure stereo and both the Razer Surround and the DTS Ultra PC II create a "virtual surround" sound using only two channels and not 5.1 or even 7.1 as intended. The only time that this isn't a problem is if the game has audio output settings inside the game, but most recent games they don't, honestly why they don't give that option it's beyond me.

 

With the xfi and cmss 3d it doesn't work that way, you set your speakers to whatever value you want, for example 5.1, change your output device to headphones and finally enable cmss3d with the Creative drivers (actually the proper way to enable cmss 3d) and if you look at the Windows sound settings you can see that it's configured in 5.1 mode even if you set it to headphones via the creative drivers and actually you can test it there to see how it sounds.

 

I think Dolby Headphone works in a similar way (although never tested it).

 

Unless i am completely wrong and both the Razer Surround and DTS Ultra PC II automatically use 5.1/7.1 mode and you can't see it/change it.

post #2954 of 3716

What sound card do you recommend for me? I am getting a Philips Fidelio X1 headset. I currently have no dac or amp but I might buy that later down the road. Currently, I need to get a good sound card as my X1's will be used in competitive gaming a lot and a sound card would majorly help.

post #2955 of 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder Mike View Post
 

If you can find the MA900 around the same price as the AKG K12 Pro or Q701, it would be worth considering. The HE400 is not something I would ever consider for gaming, based on comfort alone. 


I have a gift certificate from work in a special store. But they dont seem to have so many highend headphones. Im gonna list some of them and maybe you or someone has heard any of them and can comment.

* Top AKG is K618 and 619

* Beyer T50P and T70P

* Sony MDR1RB and MDR1RNC

* Philips X1 and A5PRO

And the usual bose, beats etc

 

To me nothing seem really interesting. Maybe the Beyer T70P but from what I see the T70 is for home use and T70p for mobile use?

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