Sennheiser HD 700: Officially Unveiled at CES 2012!

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magick man said:

Such a thing exists (almost), it's called the SRH1840.

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It is interesting to me that Sennheiser had already experimented a little with sound signature in the past with their HD590 and HD580 (among others). The HD590 being a "non-veiled" version I guess. While both cans had their following, their HD580 was in general better regarded from what I've read. Given this, it seem like a smart move to voice their HD600/650 a bit similar to their HD580. Not sure why they went HD590 with their HD700/800... maybe the ring driver technology is still in the R&D stages?
 

Is it wishful thinking that Sennheiser folks are reading this thread and taking notes? They have a presence in the HD700 "appreciation" threads. We'll never see the HD650's successor will we (at least one from Sennheiser)? 

Where's the appreciation thread, and WTH is the point of appreciation theads anyways.  Yes, please feed my delusions and make me waste more money. 

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ultrabike said:

maybe the ring driver technology is still in the R&D stages?

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How do mean?  Ring Radiators have been around for more than a few decades now.....
 
The veil isn't a big deal.  It's just increased acoustic impedance from overdamped paper/felt they use in the 555/95/600/50.  They figured it out and achieved a nice balance with the 558/598 by basically thinning out the paper among one or two other things.  There's nothing complicated going on wrt tonality and balance in their construction.  They were obviously shooting for speed, width and resolving ability in the HD800.  They made a sports car without the trunk, back seat and air conditioner.  Ride too bumpy?  Can't carry groceries?  Mileage sucks?  Too bad, get a Camry.
 
The HD700?  Well, I stand by my Beyer T1 conspiracy theory.

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anaxilus said:

 
How do mean?  Ring Radiators have been around for more than a few decades now.....
 
The veil isn't a big deal.  It's just increased acoustic impedance from overdamped paper/felt they use in the 555/95/600/50.  They figured it out and achieved a nice balance with the 558/598 by basically thinning out the paper among one or two other things.  There's nothing complicated going on wrt tonality and balance in their construction.  They were obviously shooting for speed, width and resolving ability in the HD800.  They made a sports car without the trunk, back seat and air conditioner.  Ride too bumpy?  Can't carry groceries?  Mileage sucks?  Too bad, get a Camry.
 
The HD700?  Well, I stand by my Beyer T1 conspiracy theory.

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You are probably right.
 
The 555/95/600/50 seem smooth on the high frequencies compared to the measurements I've seen on the HD700 regardless of their balance. The HD700 seems fairly bumpy there.
 
I initially thought that maybe the driver being larger presented a housing design problem (difficult to damp properly). However, the HD800 (for which you have a nice mod) also uses a ring radiator, and while a bit bright, it does not have the bumps the HD700 has. Probably not enough consideration was given to the housing then.
 
EDIT:
Actually, the more I think about it, it does seem like a deliberate fail. Sennheiser already had a lot of feedback with their HD800. Sound signature and high frequency notches could have been avoided with lessons learned.

rhythmdevils said:

Reminds me of Subaru, in the span of 2 years, going from the company that made the "non-SUV", the car that was all about real world use and sensibility, to just making the same old big SUV's like everyone else, leaving the devoted following they had developed for decades with nothing.  I would have bought Subaru's for the rest of my life because I loved their design goals.  But they don't make a car I like anymore. 

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BMW's doing the same thing. They're abandoning their focus on handling and fundamentals and are going after gizmos and numbers instead. Now you've got rough turbo 4s instead of silky straight 6s, cars that are bigger for the sakes of being bigger, eco tires that can't stop or grip properly, electric power steering with no feel, computers that watch and correct your every move... They're trying to be Audi and are abandoning what made them successful. Somebody in management will have a lot of explaining to do once sales start to slide.

Honda's been doing the same thing for years. Their core products have steadily gone downhill in quality. Apparently GM and Chrysler's example in the 80s and 90s was so impressive that other manufacturers are busy trying to emulate them.

At least Subaru now has the BRZ.

[/ot]

Oh yeah, Sennheiser. I just hope they listen to the negatives as well as the positives, and don't dismiss them as self-entitled consumer hate. A company should never think that it's smarter than its customers. Paying customers always have a choice, after all.

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anaxilus said:

The HD700?  Well, I stand by my Beyer T1 conspiracy theory.

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What's your theory? I'm intrigued...

eee pee said:

I figured hey, while I got this thing all opened up, let's try a little of that magical Creatology foam.

My placement was based purely on that was a possible place for reflections, and I think I remember Arnaud showed it to be a very active area when he was modding his 800s.  I made the square cut out thinking maybe Sennheis purposely molded that little thing for a reason.  It's a little cup or bowl with a point in the middle.



I'm in the middle with these things.  I don't hate them, and I don't love them.  I've worn them every night for hours, but have yet to have a magic moment.  I'm also consuming beers as the night goes on, so yeah...

So anyways, time to listen again with the foam added.  See if that little bit does anything.

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Adding absorption to the ear cup is bound to reduce the brightness, I am just not sure you could actually fix the issue completely with that (you'll typically get no more than 3dB attenuation and it wont just drop the peak but the rest of the HF response with it).

Maybe one of the skilled modders or purrin will be able to identify where the resonances are coming from (transducer or earcup acoustic resonance or else) so to best try to alleviate it. I personally wonder about that curved vent behind the diaphragm and supposeddly improved airflow. Acoustically, it's like a horn and who knows that that does to the diaphragm radiation.

As for the shift in sennheiser's house sound, don't you think that what goes around around comes around? There are cycles in the voicing depending on what's on the market and selling it seems. In current times, it would seem like we're in for detail even though Audeze has been swimming against the stream.

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anaxilus said:

 
Continuous work in progress, not perfect but much better.  For my next trick, I'll be trying to retain note weight and presence while mitigating the upper mid/lower treble bite and eliminating high treble grain.  *Facepalm*  People bitch about us modding phones and say we should just buy the right one.  Except the others are even worse and in most cases unfixable.  Even the 009 and T2 have things I'd like to fix.  We do the best we can choosing the best workable compromise for our needs/desires.
 
No matter what though, one has to realize the HD800 will never play nice with 100% of the typical listeners content.  It's raison d'etre is the exact opposite.  Scalpels aren't very good butter knives.

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Most of those people have no problem rolling tubes for some strange reason though...
 
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magick man said:

Such a thing exists (almost), it's called the SRH1840.

Truthfully, it sounds like you want the ESP/950. Aesthetics aside, they are stunning for the price.

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I'm having a hard time believing the 1840 actually sounds like that.
 
Anyway, the reason I can sit back and hope is because I can't really afford it right now and can't use open headphones very much either.  Senn will probably have something new out in the high end segment my the time both of those change.
 
Quote:

anaxilus said:

 
How do mean?  Ring Radiators have been around for more than a few decades now.....
 
The veil isn't a big deal.  It's just increased acoustic impedance from overdamped paper/felt they use in the 555/95/600/50.  They figured it out and achieved a nice balance with the 558/598 by basically thinning out the paper among one or two other things.  There's nothing complicated going on wrt tonality and balance in their construction.  They were obviously shooting for speed, width and resolving ability in the HD800.  They made a sports car without the trunk, back seat and air conditioner.  Ride too bumpy?  Can't carry groceries?  Mileage sucks?  Too bad, get a Camry.
 
The HD700?  Well, I stand by my Beyer T1 conspiracy theory.

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Stock, the HD800 is closer to driving a full blown race car on the street.  Have to climb in though the window, can't even back it out of your driveway with out messing up the ground effects, bone jarring on anything but immaculate pavement, and the engine needs a rebuild every other week. 

I'd suggest everyone go out and buy a NEW set of HD650s and plug them in to a BCL amp - then tell me there's a "veil".
 
I'm sitting here listening to just such a setup, with the source being no better than an iPod digital direct out through the DAC in a lowly Pure i20....and it completely walks away from the HD700 I have plugged into my Anedio D2 using the same iPod digital files as a source.
 
I'm utterly baffled at how poor the HD700 sounds in comparison.  Diffuse, tizzy, incoherent, wide soundstage, bloated mid-bass. I'm confused beyond words.  Something is either wrong or the Anedio and HD700s are the worst mismatch I've ever run across.

maverickronin said:

I'm having a hard time believing the 1840 actually sounds like that.

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It doesn't, but they sure sound a lot better than HD700s. However, I was serious about the Koss ESP/950s. For less than $700 they're insanely good, and IMO are the best headphones/earspeakers you can buy for under a grand. Period.

Quote:

ultrabike said:

 
EDIT:
Actually, the more I think about it, it does seem like a deliberate fail. Sennheiser already had a lot of feedback with their HD800. Sound signature and high frequency notches could have been avoided with lessons learned.

Click to expand...

Off course. Sennheiser want you to pay more for the best sound. Why do you think that the hd580 was renamed later hd600,
and the only difference between hd555 and hd595, was a little piece of foam.
I hope Sennheiser will fail one day at this game , at milking consumers to the max.

   
 
Homer Simpson meets his long lost half-brother Herbert Simon. Herbert is more intelligent, much slimmer and has hair. Herbert was given up for adoption. He put himself though university and joined Sennheiser where he ascended the ranks and became a member of senior management in charge of headphone consumer products. Overjoyed that to learn that he had a birth family, he allows Homer to design a headphone. Homer proceeds to take various aspects from other successful headphones and combine them together to make Sennheiser's latest and greatest.
 
  
       
 
 
 

 
Despite being smarter than homer, he still exhibits signs of the Simpson gene, which in his case, manifests as poor judgement than pure stupidity: such as allowing Homer to design a headphone.
 

You've ruined me Homer.

Quote:

arnaud said:

As for the shift in sennheiser's house sound, don't you think that what goes around around comes around? There are cycles in the voicing depending on what's on the market and selling it seems. In current times, it would seem like we're in for detail even though Audeze has been swimming against the stream.

Click to expand...

 
This may be the case. I think I speculated about this @ Innerfidelity at some point:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-headphone-measurement-contest-winners#comment-482922
 
However, based on the measurements I have seen, the HD700 have at least two nasty issues @ their price point:
 
1) Notches at the high frequencies:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/589738/sennheiser-hd-700-officially-unveiled-at-ces-2012/2880#post_8422434
Maybe equalizable, but notches are a bit of a challenge (zeros close to the unit circle, and SNR if using digital). I was thinking those issues maybe due to the housing (standing waves @ notch frequencies), but this is pure speculation.
2) Distortion:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/589738/sennheiser-hd-700-officially-unveiled-at-ces-2012/2940#post_8424697
That is not equalizable. It could be housing vibration? or maybe issues with the driver? don't know.
 
The HD800 does not seem to have these issues, so not sure why the HD700 should have them. Senn seems to be able to measure their cans, they should be aware of these problems. Maybe they are still in the process of tuning them up, don't know.
 
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extrabigmehdi said:

Off course. Sennheiser want you to pay more for the best sound. Why do you think that the hd580 was renamed later hd600,
and the only difference between hd555 and hd595, was a little piece of foam.
I hope Sennheiser will fail one day at this game , at milking consumers to the max.

Click to expand...

 
I think so too. I rambled about this at some point @ Innerfidelity also: 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/most-excellent-sennheiser-amperior-and-hd-25-1-ii#comment-482620
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/most-excellent-sennheiser-amperior-and-hd-25-1-ii#comment-482629
 
There is this feeling that Monster is driving the prices up with sub-standard cans in terms of performance/price ratio. If this is indeed the case, following this example will only be detrimental in the long run.
 
Oh well...