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I know that but since there are few saing "nice links" (sorry) ...time will fix them all

.... so keep on digging my friends (I hope)

if you can afford it, i'd say go with the HD580s. while using a sound card is not optimal, it still will have a leg up on the HD497s...and if you ever can get yourself an amp, then they will really sing.

i've had mine for a few days now and have played them straight through the headphone jack on my ipod, via a Total Airhead (fed by the line out of the ipod), and via the headphone amp of my Creek 5350SE integrated amp.

i prefer them in the reverse order. (i plan to post a review or two in the weeks ahead after i've had more time to fully evaulate)

but that being said, i was very surprised that in spite of sounding a little less refined and controlled with the plain ipod, they still sound good...not as good as my unamped Ety 4Ps, much better than the 280s and 497s which i had the chance to hear out of my ipod. just more refined, higher resolution, or more to the point: more musical.

i just recently got some 580s for $149 from Audio Advisor and i have to say that i am quite taken with them. i had heard them many years ago. Sure, the 600s and 650s offer another step up in resolution, but for $149, i think the 580s are truly a high end bargain. they are a set of headphones you can grow into and appreciate with future options including a separate amp and high end source.

if you budget allows, pick up a pair from AA (using their $50 coupon) and you have 30 days to decide whether you agree with me or not. if you don't, they return them and only lose the retun shipping costs (AA ships anything over $49 for free)

Thx for that audio advisor coupon deal... Nice and cheap and will be sent quick. Anyway, changed things again... Now I just hope Radio Shack will take back these 2hour used 497 headphones ;p

Geez... I gave in... I just hope the 580's sound better than the 497's unamped. Which from what you guys say sounds like it does. What's a good amp for the froogle guy named Tides? What's going to make these puppys sing without putting another dent in my wallet? DYI amps any good?

i hope you didn't have any problems returning your 497s. like i said before, you have nothing to really lose. get the 580s and try them out unamped. if they aren't your cup of tea, you only have to pay the return shipping.

sorry, i don't have any recs for cheap amps. i bought the $199 Total Airhead to drive mine out of my ipod. i'm guessing your sound card will have a little more oomph than my ipod.

i'd keep soliciting opinions from others, but in the meantime, order the 580s and try them unamped. you may be pleasantly surprised.

then, when you have enough dough to get the amp of your liking, you can splurge and get another big improvement. (welcome to the endless wallet emptying cycle associated with being an audiophile or head-fier*)

(* i'm only recently in the latter club, but have long known the woes of being the former in building my speaker based rig)

yeah, for now i'll be looking for a used amp at a great price, or maybe find someone to build me a cmoy or some such, perhaps ebay even.