EDIT: Alright, I can see we're in a TL;DR kind of mood - basically I'm mostly set on getting a Little Dot amplifier after seeing opinions on them (And seeing many negative opinions about many Chinese made amplifiers from other companies). I'm willing to ignore the price differences I stated - I'm considering the Mk II, III, and IV - but for me I have no earthly idea what difference there is to me between these amps. So let me change the question - what is the noticeable difference between the Mk II up through to the Mk IV Little Dot amps? Using these with my HD 595's which will be the main headphones I expect (But I may start using my AKG K340's a lot more and they're rather inefficient electrostat headphones), what amp should I go with - or rather what differences should I hear between the II, III and IV in their stock configurations?
 
Original post below in case someone would rather recommend me towards one of the solid state amps I linked - though I'm really curious to hear a tube amp now, but don't want just some cheap little crap amp that if I like tubes I'll want to ditch and buy another nicer one. I want a decent/nice one to start with that if I like tubes or can hear the difference I'll hear it and be happy with what I have not feeling the need to run out and upgrade to some better tube amp because now the one I bought is inadequate for me.
 
 
 
Okay, I'm a normal speakers kind of audiophile for the most part - but I've been kicking the idea of a headphone amp around for awhile now. It decidedly cannot be more than $200 (Okay maybe $225 is okay if it has free shipping but no more than that). The headphones I'd use this amp with are likely to be most often my Sennheiser HD 595's but possibly Audio Technica ATH-M50's sometimes as well as my AKG K340's and whatever else I may get in the future. I hear people in the reviews here mention so much detail in the sound and other things I just flat out don't ever hear, so I'm not even sure I could distinguish one of these amps from any other. For speakers I've tried lots of different amps on the same set of speakers and never hear one bit of difference. I went so far as to at a friends house, try out a McIntosh MAC4300 receiver, compared to a rather large NAD receiver from the late '80s, as well as a Carver integrated amplifier, a Rotel amplifier, and a Marantz amplifier - at best the McIntosh sounded better by some small measure, but I don't know audiophile words to describe it other than it kinda sounded nicer. Then again, I can't say I might not have been guilty of my eyes deciding what would sound better - because hey it's a McIntosh, it's supposed to sound amazing even if I don't know it yet (Which I'm thinking could have easily tainted my perception of the sound).
 
I mention this in large part because I know some people will hiss at some amplifiers while others will suggest them. Right now my Logitech Z-5500 speaker's headphone out jack distorts the bass for some stupid reason so any bass I hear no matter the headphone sounds like the headphone can't handle it - but it's the headphone jack on the control pod, if I directly plug into my sound card (HT Omega Claro Plus+) it sounds juts fine but this is far more bothersome to do - hence the desire for a headphone amp to simplify this. So I'm going to put in a few of the amps I have been kind of thinking of - and know I do not have a clue about their sound at all, going merely on price and what stuff I found when I searched easily. This is where I would like your opinion about the quality of these amplifiers. I'm going to include links so the pricing can be seen in real time as well as availability - I would like to ask for this amplifier for Christmas and don't want to be too extravagant with my request (And I might not ask and just end up buying it myself, still not sure). Whatever amp I get, I'm going to use the front output of my sound card and plug into the amplifier for my headphones (My Claro Plus+ is supposed to have an improved quality DAC for the front channels) - I could use some other way of getting the audio there as long as it doesn't require me to use coax (I am using this for my speakers and need it for my DTS encoding/decoding for when I put in a surround receiver soon). I can use optical or some other plug style just fine, just not coax.
 
Oh one more thing, there are a few tube amps in here - I have never heard a tube amplifier before, so I'm a bit unsure about these. Some people swear by these, but my dad has told me that in his opinion tubes never really were all that and comparably to solid state had the warm up time as opposed to the instant on sound solid state gives you. All my regular amps are solid state, so I don't know what I think about tubes. These amps are far cheaper than tube speaker amps so it seems this may be the only way for me to hear a difference between one amp and another. If there are any precautions someone has about using tube amps please let me know, as I am not aware of these myself - being a solid state guy if only because I have never found a tube amplifier of any kind.
 
One more thing too - some of these are DACs, some are just amps. Which I need? I don't know. I do know my HT Omega Claro Plus was supposed to have a relatively high quality DAC in it - but you guys would know better than I if using one of these little amps would be better than the DAC in my sound card or if my sound card is better than their DAC in specifc cases. Please let me know about this - if the amp has the ability to be used as a DAC I could always try A/B'ing to see if I hear a difference but if it's just an amp then of course I would be able to do no such thing.
 
FiiO E9 amplifier
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Desktop-Headphone-Amplifier-Dock/dp/B004M172FY/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1324064072&sr=1-6
 
NuForce Icon 2 uDAC-2
http://www.amazon.com/NuForce-uDAC-2-Black-Headphone-24bit/dp/B003Y5FRNS/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1324065171&sr=1-8
 
Hi-Fi Man EFA-2 tube amplifier
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HMEF2A
 
Audioengine N22 amplifier
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AUN22
 
Firestone Audio Cute BEYOND amplifier
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FACUBE
 
Musical Fidelity V-CAN amplifier
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFVCAN
 
Musical Fiedlity V-CAN MkII
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFVCANII
 
Qinpu A-6000 Mk II tube amplifier (This is over the budget I was thinking but not so bad that if it's not an amazing amplifier that I couldn't justify the extra cost)
http://www.amazon.com/Qinpu-6000-Integrated-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0057OI448
 
 
These were the amps I had been seeing and unsure which to choose. They all claim to be the best (but that's the audio world of course), but I'm not sure who here is a standout good value for the quality you get and who's just "you get what you pay for" here. If any of you headphone amp wizzes could lend me a hand I'd appreciate it - I have a bad enough time comparing regular power amps but the sheer number of these little headphone amps and how many new ones seem to just pop up each day that look very well built is amazing.
 
EDIT: Okay, these say they can be used as headphone amps - but I guess the lack of a headphone plug on the front is throwing me off, you would use the line/phone out on this amplifier to use it with headphones?
http://www.amazon.com/Qinpu-Q-2-Tube-Amplifier/dp/B001TGDB9Q/ref=pd_cp_e_3
 
If so, I'm sort of curious about this too - Qinpu A3 integrated tube amplifier
http://www.amazon.com/Qinpu-A3-Integrated-Amplifier/dp/B0057ODYX4
 
As well as this - Qinpu A1 tube amplifier
http://china-hifi-audio.com/qinpu-a1-a1-mini-tube-6n3-integrated-amplifier-quinpu-p-161.html
 
I'm curious about this Chinese gear though, how reliable is this stuff? I know the Chinese are just about the only ones still making tube equipment but I'm a bit leery of spending a lot of money on an amp from a company that is based out of China (Honestly I'd feel if my amp ever had a problem I'd have to fix it myself or find someone local because I hear nightmare stories about any kind of RMA stuff or repairs where it has to be sent back to China). Can anyone speak on the service quality and reliability of this Chinese equipment - in general?

So you mean to tell me on these forums, a place that apparently raves over the Little Dot amplifiers from what I've seen of the reviews on this website - no one has an opinion? Guess I'll have to just ask the guy that makes the amps, I'm sure I'll hear some BS about why the expensive one is the best and the cheaper one is no good but it's not like I tried to get help on a forum or something like that...

I have an opinion, all right, but it's probably one you do not want to hear.
 
Do not buy a $200 tube amp.  Just don't.  Except for one, the Bottlehead Crack.  But that's a DIY kit, so they can afford to use quality parts since you're supplying the labor.
 
It isn't just other manufacturers with negative opinions, a lot of people who build amps as a hobby aren't fans, either.  For one, I won't have a cheap, non-name brand high voltage transformer in my house.  Too risky.  If you price out high voltage transformers from legiimate companies like Hammond, Edcor, Plitron, and others, you'll find them starting around $75.  Add in a case and other good quality parts and you'll have a hard time gathering raw parts for less than $150-$200.  If an amp costs less than that, they cut corners.
 
No, this is NOT a matter of labor costs.  Parts cost about the same worldwide.  If the el cheapo amps used parts comparable to good amps, then they might cost a few hundred less, not $1,000 less.  Cheap amps are cheap because they cheap out and cut corners.
 
"But it sounds good."  Not compared to well-constructed amps.  This is like saying that a Big Mac is equivalent to a 3-star Michelin restaurant because both make you feel full afterward.
 
The only way to get a cheap tube amp is to build it yourself.  Even then, expect to pay $400-$500 for good parts and spending a few dozen hours assembling it.
 
If you can only spend $200 or so and don't want to build, buy a solid state amp.  Inexpensive solid state performs very well.  Usually better than cheapies with tubes.
 
And if you think this is all BS, then go build an amp yourself.  It isn't that hard.  There are a few hundred designs out there.  Pick one and price out the parts.  See for yourself what it costs.  Go ahead, find out.
 
Should you find high quality transformers for $10 each and bargains on everything else, do let us know.  Those of us in the DIY Forum pay a lot for quality parts.  You could save us a lot of money.

So is this to say that the people speaking highly of the Little Dot amplifiers on their dedicated review threads in these forums are accepting lower quality standards? Are any of the solid state amplifiers I linked to respectable or are they also no good? These things start to make me just feel like taking an old vintage receiver I have and using it as a gloriously oversized and unnecessary headphone amp. I just don't understand such high disparity of opinions about audio gear. I can read several reviews and discussions speaking well of an amplifier and then find discussions elsewhere calling it cheap junk. I just question how much of this is diminishing returns?
 
For someone who has never heard the difference between a cheap Pioneer receiver (VSX-D608) as opposed to a Kenwood KR-7050, or a Marantz 170 DC + 3250 Preamp other than looks, features, and build quality - I just don't know. I hear large differences in speakers, but if I just switch amps around I don't hear anything different. I hear the same music played the same way. Maybe if I had used a horrible BPC receiver with high distortion levels or even worse, a boombox - maybe I'd say that would show a large jump. But I don't know I just don't hear the difference. I'm starting to wonder how much of this audio world is a cult of people who like to justify the reasons that mainstream stuff is junk and that expensive pretty looking gear is worth the thousands of dollars it costs because $1,000 gear is clearly inferior junk, and $500 gear is just rubbish for cheapskates who think they know audio.
 
To me, I'm highly suspicious of how many audiophiles are trying to destroy the reputation of gear that isn't expensive but sounds great because they paid far more money for their amp and don't want to accept the idea that some newcomer can make an amp that sounds any where close to as good for the price they sell it for. Kind of makes me think of like guys in their $200,000 Ferrari's and Porsche's probably giving no credibility to Z06 Corvettes because they're only $75,000 and clearly no car that cheap can equal their high end expensive vehicles. In a case like that I'd say there are things about those Ferraris and Porsches that make them incredible, and things that those who can afford them should enjoy because most of us would love to have that. The Z06 represents that newcomer amp, it's not as expensive and the name doesn't have the same thoughts associated with it like Ferrari and Porsche - but that Z06 can blow the doors off those Ferraris and Porsches. I'd say there's a place for all of it, that none of them are bad but the others are diminishingly nicer than the Corvette for a far higher price.
 
Perhaps comparing these in such an analogy is a bit exaggeratory, maybe it would be better to say these Little Dot amps are perhaps like a Mazdaspeed 3 - not in the league of a Ferrari or Porsche and not even a Corvette, but head and shoulders above most offerings at its price and certainly something those who don't have a large budget would consider and appreciate until they can afford that Corvette or even a Ferrari or Porsche. The alternative is to just walk where you go, because you can't obtain a Corvette right now and you won't use anything else. And of course those very cheap Chinese amps I originally was asking about are kind of like a Fiesta with a turbo - alright, but not going to last you for long and certainly not going to be the nicest ride around while it is working. This being a psychology matter I know no one would ever confess to it, but this is where my suspicion lies - especially since the amps in this section are what, $800 on the "cheap" end? For some old cheap junk that will "get you by"? Whatever the matter, the insight is appreciated.
 
I do have to ask this though, if we are to give no credibility to anyone trying to make more affordable gear - given this assumption that they're only able to do it because they're cutting corners and making it inferior quality - how do any new companies ever come around?  Are we stuck with the companies who have existed for all these years and that only fools would buy things from these newer brands that have no reputation?
 
I just do my best to research and inform myself before I buy anything, so I'm just befuddled by this disparity of opinion. I don't know how to explain it if my theory above is not true (And I'm sure it's not in all cases, some people may really think it sounds bad and prefer something else - but how much is psychosomatic? That you expect a cheap amp to sound bad and an expensive one to sound good?). These sorts of issues are why I almost never buy any new audio equipment and just take and enjoy what used gear I find - I can get it far cheaper and don't need to worry about these matters of price and such, other than if a used piece of equipment was a TOTL, MOTL, or BOTL piece of equipment in its day.

You're surprised by disparity in people's views in regards to a highly subjective hobby or pursuit?  Your car analogy was spot on, but you can add the fact that the Ferrari fans think the Porsche guys have got it all wrong and vice versa. Because some people like Pepsi and some like Coke, and some other people think that just water is fine.  My son probably likes a Big Mac more than a meal in a chef hat restaurant, and due to diminishing returns a $150 bottle of wine will never be worth it to me ( I drink great Tasmanian Beer-  Cascade and Boags and Jamaican Rum).  And of course there is a lot of emotive decision making and post purchase justification/validation happening, what do you expect?
 
Listen to peoples views and opinions and accept that some will contradict others, then simply make up your own mind and go for it.  If you only look for what you want to see then you will find it, so keep an open mind because your initial position may need to be modified.  Good luck if you pursue consensus, because I am told it is a very frustrating journey.
 
You want a "good tube amp" and someone (who knows a lot about amps) suggests your top price of $200 won't get you a good tube amp, you have to make up your own mind about whether he is right or not.  And he might be wrong because others say that $200 Little Dot tube amps are "magic", the question then becomes have they heard more expensive tube amps to compare them to?  If they have, for them it is simply a matter of preference and perceived value, if they haven't, then maybe they don't know any better. 
 
 

Quote:

uncle erik said:

I have an opinion, all right, but it's probably one you do not want to hear.
 
Do not buy a $200 tube amp.  Just don't.  Except for one, the Bottlehead Crack.  But that's a DIY kit, so they can afford to use quality parts since you're supplying the labor.
 
It isn't just other manufacturers with negative opinions, a lot of people who build amps as a hobby aren't fans, either.  For one, I won't have a cheap, non-name brand high voltage transformer in my house.  Too risky.  If you price out high voltage transformers from legiimate companies like Hammond, Edcor, Plitron, and others, you'll find them starting around $75.  Add in a case and other good quality parts and you'll have a hard time gathering raw parts for less than $150-$200.  If an amp costs less than that, they cut corners.
 
No, this is NOT a matter of labor costs.  Parts cost about the same worldwide.  If the el cheapo amps used parts comparable to good amps, then they might cost a few hundred less, not $1,000 less.  Cheap amps are cheap because they cheap out and cut corners.
 
"But it sounds good."  Not compared to well-constructed amps.  This is like saying that a Big Mac is equivalent to a 3-star Michelin restaurant because both make you feel full afterward.
 
The only way to get a cheap tube amp is to build it yourself.  Even then, expect to pay $400-$500 for good parts and spending a few dozen hours assembling it.
 
If you can only spend $200 or so and don't want to build, buy a solid state amp.  Inexpensive solid state performs very well.  Usually better than cheapies with tubes.
 
And if you think this is all BS, then go build an amp yourself.  It isn't that hard.  There are a few hundred designs out there.  Pick one and price out the parts.  See for yourself what it costs.  Go ahead, find out.
 
Should you find high quality transformers for $10 each and bargains on everything else, do let us know.  Those of us in the DIY Forum pay a lot for quality parts.  You could save us a lot of money.

Click to expand...

 
This is an interesting stance and undoubtedly well-informed as well.
 
But another truth is that you are making me wonder on what basis you write off "200 dollar tube amps"? Is this based on personal experience or is this a dogmatic point of view?
 
Sorry, I realize this is an old thread. But I would really like to know.

This thread is indeed old, so I should perhaps state that I have seen the light as far as amps sounding different. My Sony ES receiver played on my headphones doesn't sound nearly as nice as my Marantz 2215b receiver. I had a Sherwood S-7900A receiver and everything through it sounded boomy, even with loudness off (Loudness made it just a sloppy mess). Those sound different still to my H/K PM655 amplifier too. So credit where it's due, amps do sound different. But the difference is heard most readily (I think) on headphones. Speakers it's harder to hear (to me). I did a multi-amplifier test once at a friends between some respectable amplifiers of various vintage and quality. A TOTL NAD PE receiver, a mid-line Rotel amplifier, an entry level Bryston, and a McIntosh MAC4300 receiver. They were hooked to a nice pair of PSB speakers (Sorry, no idea the model anymore it was some time back now). None of these amps sounded bad, in fact the only one that sounded to me any better than the others was the McIntosh - and even then I seriously question my bias in that regard.
 
It seems to me audio can get down to chasing the last 25%, and then the last 10% then the last 5%, and then the last 1%, and then infinitesimally from there. To defend my perhaps crash self from some time ago, headphone amplifiers seem to be vastly lower cost and with higher quality for the price paid compared to traditional home audio amplifiers. A $1,000 headphone amplifier would rank as 99% of the sound - to keep in the tradition I started above. A $1,000 home audio amplifier would in my opinion, be 95% of the sound. The lower prices are where it is most noticeable. From what I have seen, I imagine a quality made solid state headphone amplifier at about $500 is going to give you that 95% of the sound (Compare to home audio where that would be 90% of the sound). Now I'm clueless on tubes, both for headphones and home audio. But given this value difference I can't see headphone tube amps needing to be as exorbitantly expensive as home audio tube amplifiers. I mean, you can buy a Jolida tube amplifier for about $600 and they are a reasonably well respected company (Not just a Chinese company who sells you an amp and never offers any support). If the price disparity is that high with tube amps, then I'd say the budget difference of solid state weighs as a heavy factor in its favor (Along with reliability).
 
Anyhow, I just wanted to express my newly found thoughts. Perhaps it's controversial to think that amplifiers "so cheap" could be so good, but hey - why not? I think the high end stuff is an acquired taste for those with the means to buy it. The guy who goes out and buys an Omega watch might have started out thinking Citizen made some real luxury watches, but raised his bar as his means allowed him to buy better watches. Does the Citizen tell time as well as the Omega? Pretty much. Would most people consider a Citizen a nice watch? Indeed. Is it worth the extra thousands of dollars to have the extra bit that makes an Omega watch (Or a Rolex, or any of the other luxury watches) what they are? Maybe, if you can afford it. I dunno about you, but I like my Seiko watch and it looks decent enough and keeps the time within a few seconds. But the guy who wears Omega and Rolex watches is gonna turn his nose up at wearing a Timex or Casio - despite the fact they satisfy the need to tell the time (And not everyone really cares about how finely crafted the watch was, or how smoothly the second-hand sweeps across the face). And besides, even if a $15 Casio isn't going to last 80 years - I'm pretty sure I could buy a drawer full of them for the same price as a few links off the Rolex and still know the time just as well as the guy with the Rolex.
 
Perhaps I just don't have the acquired taste, but I think as long as you're buying something tested and well reviewed you're probably not going to go wrong. I saw quite a glowing review for some of the Trends audio miniature equipment (the T-amp, matching tube preamp, etc) by 6moons IIRC. Each of their pieces is around $200 or so. Ah well, I just hope my thoughts will help someone along the way who might think there's utter necessity in buying the top of the line at all times. By all means buy the nicest you can afford, but I don't think those of us with cheaper equipment are missing out on quite that much. My $50 SMSL T-amp sounded good enough to fool a golden eared audiophile who thought he was listening to a Krell amplifier. Never forget part of the price of any piece of equipment is the brand, reputation, and drool factor (And I'm just as guilty of falling for it, I'd love me a big ol' Accuphase amplifier if I could afford it!). 

I realize this is a very old thread at this point but I found it by searching for "difference between little dot amps", which is the title of this thread and what I wanted to find out. Nobody even attempted to answer that question...does anybody know?

Bump. 
Is there not a detailed thread detailing the difference in Little Dot Amps? 

Go look in the Equipment - Headphone Amps (full-size) forum section.  There's probably more than one thread for every Little Dot made.

As for parts , as far as I know, Little Dot makes their own custom transformers on their top models,

so those are good,
But it really depends on the model as they usually use decently cheap parts, as ALL manufacturer do (to be competitive).
Not one company that doesn't go cheap.
Only DIY stuff will have good parts throughout.

I wouldn't worry as usual owners upgrade anyways.
Who stays with lowfi, or mid grade gear for long?

Everyone gets the urge to upgrade or side-grade,
so I wouldn't worry too much and enjoy what you have .