We all have our opinions.


But for the record:
bangraman E3c / ER-4P testing =
CD: iMP-550, MD: MZ-N10, HDD: 3G iPod / NJB3 + another
Amp: Headsave Transit
Home: SCD-XA777ES + RKV Mk II w/impedanzer.
Comparative testing time using listening notes: Total approx 4h home, 50h portable in public transport, foot and aircraft, mostly unamped


I spent nearly a month auditioning these. In addition to the specific reviewing time, I spent as often as 5h some days listening to one or another during December. I also spent quite a long time relaxing during my holidays and the Ety/E3 got equal ear time. I suppose I don't expect to be arguing with some guy who's only had them for a week and probably didn't bother to do in-depth testing while outside.

I think Bangraman's opinion is much more accurate. I do not think that ER-4 is in a different class than the E3c at all. E3c is more musical, meanwhile ER-4 is more analytical. Meanwhile ER-4 offers more separation and enhances detail (note I use the word "enhances"), E3c is more of a natural sound... as in if you were listening to the same music in a concert setting, you would get something that's more like it.

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I was trying to stay out of this thread.. given that everyone knows my personal preference anyway. But you know.. can't resist after all

If you're used to the ER-4 sound, you'll probably find that few headphones offer the same type of enhanced detail with flat response that the ER-4 does (the only headphone I can think of that might be competitive in that regard, might be the Grado HP1000). In turn, the ER-4 might also do one of two things:

1. You get so used to have that detailed sound, you might think that it's the only proper way that sound should be done. You lose ability to discern detail on your own without the enhancement that ER-4 gives you.

2. You get trained with the ER-4, and learn how to discern details. Even when headphones doesn't offer detail in the foreground, you can still pick it up in the background if you listened carefully.

So the positive effect might be that you learn to recognize detail even when it's not so overtly presented. The other effect might be that you become dependent and reliant on the ER-4 to give you detail... (thus sending you into a quest to find a full-sized headphone that offers just as much detail as the ER-4).

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All the time that I've spend with the ER-4, I've never found them to be nearly as comfortable (with any of the stock fittings.. of course, I didn't take the time to do foamie mods or anything... I don't do mods with any Shure fittings either). Of course, if you've already used the ER-4 for years, you might not find the Shure E3's any more comfortable.

Think of it this way, it's like your hand is already roughened up with years of hard labor... By that point, your hand is so tough, you probably won't appreciate the differences between soap specially made for your hand versus some dish detergent soap...

The other way around, however.. is a *huge* step towards discomfort.

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But arent' the HP1000's supposed to be the pinnacle of neutrality? If so, and you are comparing the ER4's with them, then the ER4 are not "enhancing" detail artificially or unnaturaly, they are just being neutral enough. Or then I'm really not following what "neutral" means for you.

Cheers,
Raul

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Some people might disagree really strongly with that.

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And they'd be wrong!

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HP1000 is competitive in the regards to detail, but Ety's still has a more extrapolated and artificial feel in its details than the HP1000. I said it's "competitive", not equal to.

HP1000 is even more neutral, because it's actually able to create a full broad range of sound, including the low-bass and mid-bass, two regions that the Ety sorely lacks in its ability to recreate.

HP1000's "detail" is also much more natural and smooth.. much more air in between notes... the decay is just as apparent as the rising notes. Ety's decaying notes are lacking as well (it just "stops" instead of a natural decay).

Even given that though, my personal taste would not be the HP1000's... overall I think they're both more "natural" and "neutral" than the Ety's... but I still find their neutrality a bit sterile for my taste. However, if you want a really neutral headphone, I would recommend the combination of HP1000 and Gilmore amps without a doubt.

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since you allready know it all, no need to debate it with you either.

Yeah, that was the reply I expected to that post... I was rather rude, wasn't I but I decided to post it. So what testing did you do?

Trying to understand what you guys in this thread are suggesting, and trying to stretch an analogy, is it possible to compare EP-4 vs. Shure E3 in a similar way you would compare the XP-7 vs. the Perreaux SXH-1 amps? The XP7supposedly being more "audiophile" and "detailed", while the Perreaux being more "warm" and "natural" sounding?

Wish I could comment on that specific analogy but having heard neither of the amps I can't.


What I mean is quite simple. At the readily discernible frequency bands that both phones occupy I think both have more or less equal resolution. However the Ety has an extended treble, and those trebles really stick out. The sticky-out trebles and the way they do reference my comments regarding the not wholly natural feeling sound of the Etys. They also enhance the perceived feeling of detail.


I think my biggest dillemma when reviewing was to emphasise this percieved detail increase as a good thing. It certainly lends a sparkly component to the sound and it's certainly attractive to the audiophile or would-be-audiophile listener but I felt that detail has to be decided not just in the upper highs but also in other frequencies. Also the differences in the treble did not create a significant handicap for the E3c when used in a portable situation. Since my main review point was for portable use, that's why I made the decision to write the review as I did.


The potentially obnoxious point about the E3c is the midrange. It is a little too forward for good first impressions at home, especially in comparison to the 4P. However as I wrote, it seems to help most music along in high-noise situations. The trebles are not as present and cymbals sound less 'tizzy'. But get beyond that and the E3c resolves more or less as well as the Etys.


I was a bit snotty to austonia just now, but I did put a lot of effort into this... I don't appreciate throwaway comments.

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I have never heard the Perreaux.. so I don't know... I have a HR-2, which is a very close big brother of the XP-7. I can say at least this, out of all the solid state amps that I've ever tried, the HR-2 is the most "tubey", as in its warm and lush presentation, as well as the "blackness" that it just seems to offer much better than any other solid state amp that I've ever tried.

So it's hard for me to even think of HR-2 in strictly that fashion, because I consider the HR-2 very, very musical, despite the fact that it is very detailed.

However, you can use the comparison in relative closeness to solid state and tube amps in general. Tube amps are generally less detailed, but offers a lush and warm sound. For example, the MG Head is a very, very warm and organic amp. MPX3 is less organic and more detailed, but still very lush and warm in comparison to other solid state amps in its class.

Solid state amps are usually more detailed, but can sound a bit "dry" and lack warmth at times. Amps such as the PPA delivers a very smooth sound, but it still doesn't have quite the same type of "warmth" that tube amps have.

Off-topic, usually a combination of a warm amp + detailed headphone, or "cold" amp + musical headphones gives you very good synergy ("usually", but there are always equipments that just seems to be mismatched for no reason).

More examples, MPX3 + CD3000 really helps calms down that sometimes harsh highs, and makes the forward detail a lot smoother and more musical. Gilmore V2 + HD580/600 isn't bad either, it gives the Sennheiser a bit more defined detail while reducing some of the warmth (although sometimes people would rather have lots and lots of warmth with the Sennheisers).

However, Gilmore V2 + Ety ER-4 is often little too sterile for most people. A very straight-forward, pure solid state amp + a headphone that enhances a lot of detail with very flat response.... it becomes a very "dry" experience. Although if you really just want details, it will do the job.

Of course, you can still throw source into the mix... so a very warm and musical source with Gilmore V2 + Ety ER-4 could still work.

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I don't know what your problem is Bangraman, but I have not tried to invalidate anything about your PERSONAL OPINIONS. Mine happen to differ and that doesn't make them any less valid. You share yours with people. I share mine. No need to take it personally and get worked up about it. I did my own testing and I don't need to brag about how many hours I put into it. If it takes you a month to figure out how you feel about them, good for you. It takes me less than a week. Get over it.

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I hate to say it, but I would consider the V2 and the Etys one of the great combinations and not at all sterile, and I have seen a number of other people that agree. It certainly won't sound like your HR-2, but it doesn't have to! Different strokes for different folks I guess...

Yeah, I just didn't feel that the Gilmore V2 & Ety had a very good synergy... but given the quality of the Gilmore V2, it's not like it's a bad combination, I just didn't feel that it's a "proper" combination?

Gilmore V2 + Grados is probably one of the best amp + headphone combination there is... I guess Gilmore V2 + Ety pales in comparison to that in my eyes. I think Gilmore V2 + Shure E5 has a bit better synergy as well.

However, the Gilmore V2-SE would be an entirely different story..

The funny thing is, I tested the Gilmore V2 (when I still had it) with my friend's collection of Grados (SR225, SR125, HP1000, and I think a RS-2 or RS-1, can't remember which one)... and the synergy between the Gilmore V2 + Grados made me feel like the Gilmore V2-SE is completely unnecessary. It's just how much better that combination sounds as opposed to either one of the components with any other combinations.

I have never tried any Grados on Gilmore V2-SE though... maybe I'll stop by to try them out one day..

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I have. Sorry about that, I think our portion of the thread can end here